I'd like to be able to run away from boss battles

[gilles]

Hello,
In DD1 you always have the possibility to run away from battles/quests. You end up in your hamlet with a highly stressed party and maybe a money problem, but at least you're living.
I find depressing to lose a good run because of a badly chosen non confession boss battle. Last time for me was against the shambler. I thought I could handle it, I just totally forgot that the beast would shuffle my party all the time. I should I avoided the fight, or selected a better skill set for my heroes, but I didn't. I instantly said to myself "run", but hey, there's no "run" mechanism in DD2!
Why is it so? Please let me flee a poorly prepared fight and pay for it with stress or whatever, like in DD1.

[HighLanderPony]

It's because "roguelite design".

Back up your saves and bend the game to your will. No more repeating entire runs because one fight going south.

[Vudak]

'overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer'

You bit off more than you can chew, happens to all of us :)

[Lynfinity]

With DD2 being a roguelite, running away feels like a pointless endeavor to me.

In DD1, if you got to a point where you can't possibly survive without retreating, then your team is in no shape to continue the expedition anyway, so you return to the Hamlet immediately. You get to save all the loot you've acquired at the cost of having to send these poor mofos to stress relieving activities. There was an actual penalty to losing all four heroes.

Here, you don't lose anything if you die. The only consistent loot you can acquire is Candles, and you don't receive a penalty of any sort in case of team wipe. You also don't need to manage stress, quirks and whatnot outside of dungeons - everything resets to square one each run anyway.

So, yeah, ♥♥♥♥ happens, as they say. Now you know better than to disturb the Shambino when your team can't handle shuffles.

[HighLanderPony]

Originally posted by Lynfinity:

With DD2 being a roguelite, running away feels like a pointless endeavor to me.

In DD1, if you got to a point where you can't possibly survive without retreating, then your team is in no shape to continue the expedition anyway, so you return to the Hamlet immediately. You get to save all the loot you've acquired at the cost of having to send these poor mofos to stress relieving activities. There was an actual penalty to losing all four heroes.

Here, you don't lose anything if you die. The only consistent loot you can acquire is Candles, and you don't receive a penalty of any sort in case of team wipe. You also don't need to manage stress, quirks and whatnot outside of dungeons - everything resets to square one each run anyway.

So, yeah, ♥♥♥♥ happens, as they say. Now you know better than to disturb the Shambino when your team can't handle shuffles.

"You don't lose anything if you die."

You lose several hours of progress and memories which also mean more hours of progress.

[Lynfinity]

Originally posted by HighLanderPony:

You lose several hours of progress and memories which also mean more hours of progress.

Fair enough, but now imagine how much hours of progress you lose when even one R6 hero in DD1 dies. And I don't even want to imagine how much you lose if your entire R6 team fails one of the Darkest Dungeon quests.

But yeah, I was talking mainly about in-game currencies and whatnot, since you will be dying a lot in both games anyway until you get a better understanding of the mechanics.

[The Face]

Originally posted by Lynfinity:

With DD2 being a roguelite, running away feels like a pointless endeavor to me.

In DD1, if you got to a point where you can't possibly survive without retreating, then your team is in no shape to continue the expedition anyway, so you return to the Hamlet immediately. You get to save all the loot you've acquired at the cost of having to send these poor mofos to stress relieving activities. There was an actual penalty to losing all four heroes.

Here, you don't lose anything if you die. The only consistent loot you can acquire is Candles, and you don't receive a penalty of any sort in case of team wipe. You also don't need to manage stress, quirks and whatnot outside of dungeons - everything resets to square one each run anyway.

So, yeah, ♥♥♥♥ happens, as they say. Now you know better than to disturb the Shambino when your team can't handle shuffles.

Man remember when people played games for fun?

It's like dying to megasatan in Isaac and be like "What a waste of time I did not beat everything"

[Xgpmcnp]

Running away could be an interesting mechanic, it'd need to add Loathing, tho, in my opinion. Even if it's a roguelike, running away from a fight is very punishing: You still went in the fight, you took damage, you took stress, you now gain no reward, you might've even gained diseases, negative traits, used combat items...

We already have the character options to not go into fights for relic, light or whatnot. I don't see what running away would be so different from. I don't think being in a fight you think you'll lose, or realising you ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up and know you'll lose, should instantly and irrevocably end your run; you should be able to have a strategic retreat, albeit at a high cost. Why not?

[Vudak]

Originally posted by Xgpmcnp:

Running away could be an interesting mechanic, it'd need to add Loathing, tho, in my opinion. Even if it's a roguelike, running away from a fight is very punishing: You still went in the fight, you took damage, you took stress, you now gain no reward, you might've even gained diseases, negative traits, used combat items...

We already have the character options to not go into fights for relic, light or whatnot. I don't see what running away would be so different from. I don't think being in a fight you think you'll lose, or realising you ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up and know you'll lose, should instantly and irrevocably end your run; you should be able to have a strategic retreat, albeit at a high cost. Why not?

Maybe an option to sacrifice one of your heroes and escape the battle, game randomly picking who gets abandoned in the scramble to escape (cause there's gotta be some real threat, choosing who you throw under the bus would feel too cheap imo lol). Also a negative impact on relationships to boot for good measure. Hell - you could even have that abandoned character come back as a ghost fight vs your party later :P

Could be fun, as you mention - we can already make the decision prior to the battle, and its more than possible to complete zones down 1 or even 2 heroes, if you adjust your gameplan and play safe.

[HighLanderPony]

Originally posted by Lynfinity:

Originally posted by HighLanderPony:

You lose several hours of progress and memories which also mean more hours of progress.

Fair enough, but now imagine how much hours of progress you lose when even one R6 hero in DD1 dies. And I don't even want to imagine how much you lose if your entire R6 team fails one of the Darkest Dungeon quests.

But yeah, I was talking mainly about in-game currencies and whatnot, since you will be dying a lot in both games anyway until you get a better understanding of the mechanics.

Yeah, in DD1 it's worse but I don't think it's ideal here either. I know you were talking about straight up resources but I still mentioned this because time invested is something people often forget to mention.

[St3amfails]

if you arent willing to risk a team wipe, dont fight random shamblers - user error deserves to be punished harshly. its that kind of game

[Xgpmcnp]

Originally posted by St3amfails:

if you arent willing to risk a team wipe, dont fight random shamblers - user error deserves to be punished harshly. its that kind of game

Sometimes, it's not up to you if you fight the shambler or not. Hero quirks, forced paths (last region, need a trophy, its in the way), no option to run, the shambler pet, lack of proper scouting... or maybe not even knowing what a shambler is. Fighting Shambler and failing should be punishing, but I don't see why picking a fight should be a guarenteed run ender sometimes.

[St3amfails]

literally because you picked the fight. dont wanna die. dont pick a dangerous and unnecessary fight. Same thing with a forced fight situation. You did something very wrong to get to that point. Should never happen, therefore the punishment should be of the severest variety

[Xgpmcnp]

Originally posted by St3amfails:

literally because you picked the fight. dont wanna die. dont pick a dangerous and unnecessary fight. Same thing with a forced fight situation. You did something very wrong to get to that point. Should never happen, therefore the punishment should be of the severest variety

Nah, sometimes the game literally just ♥♥♥♥♥ on you. I don't think that's a problem. I just think runs being ended outside of your control is a tad too much and there should be a (costly) counterplay to that.

[gilles]

Once you have knowledge you know which fight to enter and which fight to avoid. But before that you're doomed. The game makes boss fight mandatory (aka trophy requirement). Being able to flee would allow you to gather that knowledge. I never got a party wipe in DD1, because I ran away when needed. DD2's bosses needs very specific strategies, I wish I could find them without being crushed every time.

[HighLanderPony]

Originally posted by St3amfails:

literally because you picked the fight. dont wanna die. dont pick a dangerous and unnecessary fight. Same thing with a forced fight situation. You did something very wrong to get to that point. Should never happen, therefore the punishment should be of the severest variety

Ah yes, the "want money? just don't be poor" approach.