Quick question about the secret bosses.

[XenoEvil]

Are they intended on new game+ runs? I'm lvl 85, 125 strength, almighty build, first playthroughin CoC on hard and Shiva and masakado kicked my ass harder than any boss I have come across.

[Togles]

no really intended for ng+, get to lvl 99 and have good demons with proper loadouts, theres a bunch of strategies out there. ng+ also doesnt really make it any easier unless you lower the difficulty.

[Lynfinity]

Not sure about Masakado for now, but Shiva is not too bad if you're going toe-to-toe with him (meaning Level 96 and higher).

A solid, moderate challenge. Not too easy, but nothing crazy either. Just make sure you get rid of Ananta as soon as someone spawns him (Mediarama is a b*tch) and you should be good.

[XenoEvil]

Was able to beat Shiva by the skin of my teeth but Masakado just seems way too depended on blind luck. If the rng decided to just spam multiple freikugel, he will just wipe off half my team.

[PlantMurderer]

Shiva is very manageable if you play by his rules (i.e. Don't trigger Tandava after the first turn!). Beating him also allows you to fight a much more entertaining final boss.

The 3 other superbosses are all manageable on a 1st playthrough, but you will need to either:
(a) Attempt the boss blind a couple time to learn/guess their rules, then devise a corresponding counter-team.

(b) Check the cheese strats and abuse those.

[Ipepemypants]

Originally posted by XenoEvil:

Was able to beat Shiva by the skin of my teeth but Masakado just seems way too depended on blind luck. If the rng decided to just spam multiple freikugel, he will just wipe off half my team.

His freikugels are not rng. They are replacements for elements that recently got nulled,drained or repelled.

[Lynfinity]

Originally posted by Ipepemypants:

Originally posted by XenoEvil:

Was able to beat Shiva by the skin of my teeth but Masakado just seems way too depended on blind luck. If the rng decided to just spam multiple freikugel, he will just wipe off half my team.

His freikugels are not rng. They are replacements for elements that recently got nulled,drained or repelled.

Ah, so he's got Elizabeth Syndrome - "Don't you dare bring Null, Repel or Drain, otherwise you automatically die".

Glad to know that. "Omagatoki: Strategize" cheese, here I come!

[Ipepemypants]

Originally posted by Lynfinity:

Originally posted by Ipepemypants:

His freikugels are not rng. They are replacements for elements that recently got nulled,drained or repelled.

Ah, so he's got Elizabeth Syndrome - "Don't you dare bring Null, Repel or Drain, otherwise you automatically die".

Glad to know that. "Omagatoki: Strategize" cheese, here I come!

What I said omits a part of the full picture.

Basically, Masakado does physical attacks in a scripted order that goes phys>fire>ice>force>lightning>light>dark

As I said, if you null/drain/repel any of these elements, he will replace them with freikugel for 1-2 turns. However, he will also replace an attack in the chain with diarama if you attack him with the corresponding element - with the diarama having a higher priority than freikugel.

Every time Masakado gathers magatsuhi, the attack order shifts to the left ( so if he gathers once it will shift to fire>ice>force>lightning>light>dark>phys, and if he has gathered twice it will go ice>force>lightning>etc.)

Once Masakado's hp gets low enough, he will replace freikugel with his unique if freikugel is the first action on his turn.

So yeah, that's basically the entire fight down to a science.

[PlantMurderer]

As I said, if you null/drain/repel any of these elements, he will replace them with freikugel for 1-2 turns.

Wait, that can't be true, I've seen people Nulling and Absorbing Masakado's attacks!
See example:

YouTube™ Video: Shin Megami Tensei V: Vengeance - True Masakado Superboss Fight [Godborn HARD] 

Views: 8,269

This can be done with much lower stats, but I've prepped this team for the real hardest bosses of the game, which are coming soon(TM), but not before Satan and Demi-Fiend.

[Ipepemypants]

Originally posted by PlantMurderer:

As I said, if you null/drain/repel any of these elements, he will replace them with freikugel for 1-2 turns.

Wait, that can't be true, I've seen people Nulling and Absorbing Masakado's attacks!
See example:

YouTube™ Video: Shin Megami Tensei V: Vengeance - True Masakado Superboss Fight [Godborn HARD] 

Views: 8,269

This can be done with much lower stats, but I've prepped this team for the real hardest bosses of the game, which are coming soon(TM), but not before Satan and Demi-Fiend.

And he replaces them with freikugels the next turn, like I said.

[XenoEvil]

Originally posted by Ipepemypants:

Originally posted by Lynfinity:

Ah, so he's got Elizabeth Syndrome - "Don't you dare bring Null, Repel or Drain, otherwise you automatically die".

Glad to know that. "Omagatoki: Strategize" cheese, here I come!

What I said omits a part of the full picture.

Basically, Masakado does physical attacks in a scripted order that goes phys>fire>ice>force>lightning>light>dark

As I said, if you null/drain/repel any of these elements, he will replace them with freikugel for 1-2 turns. However, he will also replace an attack in the chain with diarama if you attack him with the corresponding element - with the diarama having a higher priority than freikugel.

Every time Masakado gathers magatsuhi, the attack order shifts to the left ( so if he gathers once it will shift to fire>ice>force>lightning>light>dark>phys, and if he has gathered twice it will go ice>force>lightning>etc.)

Once Masakado's hp gets low enough, he will replace freikugel with his unique if freikugel is the first action on his turn.

So yeah, that's basically the entire fight down to a science.

Thanks this helped alot. The one thing I would like to add is that masakado will almighty attack up to 3 turns in a row for a null/absorb/reflect. Getting a paper or something to write down your turn events was necessary for me. Wish the game had a battle log or something.

[Bake]

Originally posted by XenoEvil:

Getting a paper or something to write down your turn events was necessary for me. Wish the game had a battle log or something.

Then there's me, who thinks long term and decided to memorize it since it's a nice training for the memory.
Screwed up a couple of times and had to restart but I got him.

[CTOBN]

Originally posted by Ipepemypants:

Originally posted by Lynfinity:

Ah, so he's got Elizabeth Syndrome - "Don't you dare bring Null, Repel or Drain, otherwise you automatically die".

Glad to know that. "Omagatoki: Strategize" cheese, here I come!

What I said omits a part of the full picture.

Basically, Masakado does physical attacks in a scripted order that goes phys>fire>ice>force>lightning>light>dark

As I said, if you null/drain/repel any of these elements, he will replace them with freikugel for 1-2 turns. However, he will also replace an attack in the chain with diarama if you attack him with the corresponding element - with the diarama having a higher priority than freikugel.

Every time Masakado gathers magatsuhi, the attack order shifts to the left ( so if he gathers once it will shift to fire>ice>force>lightning>light>dark>phys, and if he has gathered twice it will go ice>force>lightning>etc.)

Once Masakado's hp gets low enough, he will replace freikugel with his unique if freikugel is the first action on his turn.

So yeah, that's basically the entire fight down to a science.

Stumbled onto this post, and noticed a few things that are off.

- Number of turns is 1 + the number of times he's gathered Magatsuhi, not just an ambiguous "1-2"
- Freikugel being replaced by Recalcitrant isn't only on the first action, it's any Freikugel if he hasn't used Recalcitrant yet
- He begins replacing Freikugel with Recalcitrant after gathering magatsuhi for the 4th time (after the 3rd time if it's not True Masakado, since that one only gathers Magatsuhi 3 times)
- It's Ice>Elec>Force>etc. after 2 gathers, not Ice>Force>Elec>etc.

[K9ofChaos]

Sorry for necroing, but I have some questions as well.

Originally posted by PlantMurderer:

As I said, if you null/drain/repel any of these elements, he will replace them with freikugel for 1-2 turns.

Wait, that can't be true, I've seen people Nulling and Absorbing Masakado's attacks!
See example:

YouTube™ Video: Shin Megami Tensei V: Vengeance - True Masakado Superboss Fight [Godborn HARD] 

Views: 8,269

This can be done with much lower stats, but I've prepped this team for the real hardest bosses of the game, which are coming soon(TM), but not before Satan and Demi-Fiend.

I myself am trying to prepare for regular Masakado as opposed to True Masakado. Is regular Masakado at least somewhat simpler than True Masakado?

Originally posted by Ipepemypants:

Originally posted by Lynfinity:

Ah, so he's got Elizabeth Syndrome - "Don't you dare bring Null, Repel or Drain, otherwise you automatically die".

Glad to know that. "Omagatoki: Strategize" cheese, here I come!

What I said omits a part of the full picture.

Basically, Masakado does physical attacks in a scripted order that goes phys>fire>ice>force>lightning>light>dark

As I said, if you null/drain/repel any of these elements, he will replace them with freikugel for 1-2 turns. However, he will also replace an attack in the chain with diarama if you attack him with the corresponding element - with the diarama having a higher priority than freikugel.

Every time Masakado gathers magatsuhi, the attack order shifts to the left ( so if he gathers once it will shift to fire>ice>force>lightning>light>dark>phys, and if he has gathered twice it will go ice>force>lightning>etc.)

Once Masakado's hp gets low enough, he will replace freikugel with his unique if freikugel is the first action on his turn.

So yeah, that's basically the entire fight down to a science.

Here are the builds I have so far for demons I'd like to consider using against Masakado:

Nahobino:
>Murakumo+9
>Divine Arrowfall+9
>Sakanagi+9
>Yabusame Shot+7
>Kannabi Veil
>Great Mana Spring
>Almighty Pleroma
>Mahama+1

Shiva:
>Tandava+9
>Hades Blast+9
>Maragibarion+3
>Maziobarion+6
>Yabusame Shot+9
>High Almighty Pleroma
>Boon Boost EX
>Freikugel+9

Beelzebub:
>Death Flies+9
>Thunder Reign+9
>Mudobarion+9
>Debilitate+5
>Ice Age+5
>Drain Dark
>Boon Boost EX
>Maziobarion+9

Konohana Sakuya:
>Sakuya Sakura+5
>Bowl of Hygieia+5
>Agidyne+5
>Zandyne+9
>Heal Pleroma
>High Heal Pleroma
>Great Mana Spring
>Resist Elec

Dagda:
>Lost Hit+9
>Hades Blast+9
>Power Punch+9
>Luster Candy
>Freikugal+4
>High Phys Pleroma
>Null Phys

Anansi:
>What Comes After Four+7
>Bufudyne+2
>Makajamaon+2
>Fire Block
>Life Aid
>Mamudoon+7
>Sexy Dance+2
>Null Force

Onyankopon:
>King of Tales+5
>Donum Magici+5
>Diamrita+3
>Tetrakarn+5
>Donum Gladi+5
>Mediarama+3
>Enduring Soul
>Resist Phys

Marici:
>Formless Arrows+5
>Mist Rush+5
>Hamabarion+2
>Luster Candy+2
>Ice Age+2
>Freikugel+1
>High Phys Pleroma
>Mahamabarion+2

Danu:
>Matriarch's Love+4
>Hamabarion+3
>Megidolaon+4
>Slumber Vortex
>Drain Light
>Glacial Blast+2
>Luster Candy+2

Zeus:
>Keraunos+6
>Madness Glint+2
>Panta Spane+4
>Impaler's Animus+1
>Maziobarion+6
>High Elec Pleroma
>Drain Elec
>Hell Thrust+4

Fionn mac Cumhaill:
>Mac an Luin+9
>Hades Blast+9
>Agibarion+9
>Riberama
>Enduring Soul
>Bufubarion+8
>Null Ice
>Ice Age+8

Demeter:
>Eleusinian Harvest+4
>Killing Wind+3
>Hamabarion+1
>Diamrita+4
>Luster Candy+3
>Null Force
>High Heal Pleroma
>Null Fire

Anyone have any advice on how to improve these builds with Demon Essences? I came from this thread that suggested Demeter, Onyankopon and Girimekhala as the team: https://steamcommunity.com/app/1875830/discussions/0/744883258140965147/

I also got the idea of using Shiva, Konohana and Beelzebub from this guide in particular: https://game8.co/games/Shin-Megami-Tensei-V/archives/457732