Vampire Survivors

Vampire Survivors

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Tomos Feb 25, 2022 @ 5:47pm
Does Spinach do anything?
Since the damage numbers are fake, does Spinach actually do anything other than raise the visual numbers? Some enemies take 1 or 2 hits from the Garlic regardless of damage numbers, for instance.

Edit: My example for what I'm talking about


Here's how to replicate - Remove might bonuses. Play as Poe. You can kill Bats on the first stage with 0 damage sometimes. The Zombies take 2 Garlic hits, and 1 Bible hit, regardless of damage.

Edit 2: Got my answer.

Damage numbers are faked by +-5 as per https://vampire-survivors.fandom.com/wiki/Weapon

Spinach does affect this base value, making Garlic go from 5 to 5.5 with level 1 Spinach (and no other might bonuses)
Last edited by Tomos; Apr 20, 2022 @ 11:27am
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Showing 1-15 of 30 comments
Stanis23 Feb 25, 2022 @ 5:54pm 
?

Spinach works normally, I'm not even sure what give you the impression the numbers are fake. No point to show them in the first place if they are.

Also that's one bizarre example. Say enemy has 100 hp. Weapon does 50 damage. Now with Spinach +50% damage it does 75 damage. And guess what? It both needs two hits to kill that enemy. The damage number isn't fake it's just math.
Last edited by Stanis23; Feb 25, 2022 @ 5:54pm
Tomos Feb 25, 2022 @ 5:56pm 
Originally posted by Stanis23:
?

Spinach works normally, I'm not even sure what give you the impression the numbers are fake. No point to show them in the first place if they are.

Also that's one bizarre example. Say enemy has 100 hp. Weapon does 50 damage. Now with Spinach +50% damage it does 75 damage. And guess what? It both needs two hits to kill that enemy. It's just math...

If you go into the first area with Garlic and no Might buffs, you'll sometimes kill Bats with 0 damage dealt. Additionally, you'll deal 0-8 damage with the garlic, but 6-12 with the Cherry Bomb for instance, but in the 3rd stage with +50% HP, Garlic takes 2 hits and Cherry 1 hit regardless of the numbers.
Raelic Feb 25, 2022 @ 6:01pm 
Even if the initial damage numbers are low... 50% + 25% passive powerups is still almost doubling your damage the item was balanced around.
Osten Apr 17, 2022 @ 9:58am 
Originally posted by robotnikkkk:
CAPS

Stfu with your caps, they are annoying as hell and will only get you blocked.
Lunacy Apr 17, 2022 @ 10:20am 
Sometime's its weird because garlic with low damage will instakill the early enemies but with the healing arcana the same things don't die from recovery despite taking 40+ damage from it.
Tomos Apr 17, 2022 @ 1:56pm 
Originally posted by Lunacy:
Sometime's its weird because garlic with low damage will instakill the early enemies but with the healing arcana the same things don't die from recovery despite taking 40+ damage from it.

According to the Reddit the numbers get randomized by about +/- 5, which is why you can see garlic kill with 0 damage, or two shot an enemy with a total 16 damage but a bone dealing 7 one shots.
Last edited by Tomos; Apr 17, 2022 @ 1:58pm
SirGouki Apr 17, 2022 @ 3:10pm 
The ONLY instance I've seen of people claiming the damage numbers are +/- 5 AND being fake are with the Pentagram/Gorgeous Moon, since they actually do exactly how much the enemy has in max hp (except the minute 25 boss and reapers, which are both immune to these weapons), but they show 666 +/- 5 and have been confirmed that those specific instances of damage numbers are fake. Everything else should be doing the damage its claiming its doing, if its not and you some how have a way to actually prove this (i.e. you're using a debugger to step through the code and can actually see the damage dealt being a whole digit different from whats shown by the damage numbers, and also that an enemy dies to actually 0 damage), you have found bugs and need to report them through the discord.

Also, enemies' HP is determined by what level YOU are when they spawn. If they're supposed to have, say 50 * level hp, and you level up spinach, you'll gain 10% damage, but the enemy will gain 50 extra hp, and you'll likely notice that you're still taking 2-3 hits depending on the weapon.
Last edited by SirGouki; Apr 17, 2022 @ 3:14pm
Bugog Apr 17, 2022 @ 4:15pm 
In the collection tab it says that garlic doesn't get the effect from amount, duration, or speed. From what I can gather amount is might (spinach).
Thunderclaude Apr 17, 2022 @ 4:22pm 
I'm curious to a nugget of truth that may be in this claim that damage numbers are fake. My level 70ish Pugnala with upgraded guns, the lasers were doing around 57-62 damage to enemies in the library. At level 200+, where she would have had +130% more might from her leveling passive, the lasers were only doing about 61-67 damage, which is much less than I would expect.
Tomos Apr 17, 2022 @ 4:29pm 
Originally posted by SirGouki:
The ONLY instance I've seen of people claiming the damage numbers are +/- 5 AND being fake are with the Pentagram/Gorgeous Moon, since they actually do exactly how much the enemy has in max hp (except the minute 25 boss and reapers, which are both immune to these weapons), but they show 666 +/- 5 and have been confirmed that those specific instances of damage numbers are fake. Everything else should be doing the damage its claiming its doing, if its not and you some how have a way to actually prove this (i.e. you're using a debugger to step through the code and can actually see the damage dealt being a whole digit different from whats shown by the damage numbers, and also that an enemy dies to actually 0 damage), you have found bugs and need to report them through the discord.

Also, enemies' HP is determined by what level YOU are when they spawn. If they're supposed to have, say 50 * level hp, and you level up spinach, you'll gain 10% damage, but the enemy will gain 50 extra hp, and you'll likely notice that you're still taking 2-3 hits depending on the weapon.

I tested this by removing all powerups, starting with Garlic, and if you fight any enemies that die to 1 garlic hit, you will see 0 pop up on the display but it still dies. Anyone can do this without a debugger.

Steps:
Remove Upgrades
Select Poe
Play Library
See Mudmen dying from anything from 0 to 9 damage.

Last edited by Tomos; Apr 17, 2022 @ 4:34pm
Ninja Zyborg Apr 17, 2022 @ 4:55pm 
Originally posted by Bugog:
In the collection tab it says that garlic doesn't get the effect from amount, duration, or speed. From what I can gather amount is might (spinach).
amount is duplicator, not spinach
Bugog Apr 17, 2022 @ 5:44pm 
Originally posted by Ninja Zyborg:
Originally posted by Bugog:
In the collection tab it says that garlic doesn't get the effect from amount, duration, or speed. From what I can gather amount is might (spinach).
amount is duplicator, not spinach

My bad then.
Jeck Apr 17, 2022 @ 6:23pm 
Originally posted by Kris DETERMINATION:
Originally posted by Stanis23:
?

Spinach works normally, I'm not even sure what give you the impression the numbers are fake. No point to show them in the first place if they are.

Also that's one bizarre example. Say enemy has 100 hp. Weapon does 50 damage. Now with Spinach +50% damage it does 75 damage. And guess what? It both needs two hits to kill that enemy. It's just math...

If you go into the first area with Garlic and no Might buffs, you'll sometimes kill Bats with 0 damage dealt. Additionally, you'll deal 0-8 damage with the garlic, but 6-12 with the Cherry Bomb for instance, but in the 3rd stage with +50% HP, Garlic takes 2 hits and Cherry 1 hit regardless of the numbers.

That's because 0 can be anything between 0 and 1. So you see 0 pop up, but technically it could be 0.5, which when applied to mobs is rounded.
Ame-kun Apr 17, 2022 @ 7:03pm 
Yeah, there's Fractional Damage and HP in this game, guys. Toastie in particular has only 1 HP but I've had multiple cases where I Definitely Take a Hit and Live, so either I have somewhat more than 1 HP or they're doing less than 1 Damage.

In other words, bats could very feasibly have less than 1 HP and still get killed by an attack that also, apparently, does less than 1 HP.
Tomos Apr 17, 2022 @ 7:03pm 
Originally posted by Jeck:
Originally posted by Kris DETERMINATION:

If you go into the first area with Garlic and no Might buffs, you'll sometimes kill Bats with 0 damage dealt. Additionally, you'll deal 0-8 damage with the garlic, but 6-12 with the Cherry Bomb for instance, but in the 3rd stage with +50% HP, Garlic takes 2 hits and Cherry 1 hit regardless of the numbers.

That's because 0 can be anything between 0 and 1. So you see 0 pop up, but technically it could be 0.5, which when applied to mobs is rounded.

Yes, but that doesn't explain why other weapons can one shot some enemies at the start but garlic can't. I've worked it out before where the bone deals between 7 and 14 damage, and the garlic between 0 and 9, and regardless of what numbers actually came up, Garlic took 2 hits, bone took 1 hit. This is easily observable in the early game.
Last edited by Tomos; Apr 17, 2022 @ 7:05pm
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Date Posted: Feb 25, 2022 @ 5:47pm
Posts: 30