*MAJOR SPOILERS* Questions about a plot point

[Yojimbo]

When we finally find out why Bode is so sketchy, a lot goes down that raises a lot of questions.

How did a former Jedi hide his presence from 3 Jedi including a master and a night sister yet also maintain his connection to the force to rival the force abilities of practising users? One could argue trust for the former but no one straight up trusts him upon first meet including all the force users, Cal vouches but they all show apprehension at first. As for the latter, unless we're getting some sort of silly retcon to how the force works it really seems like a weak way to create a third act villain after they pretty much wasted Dagan in a manner reminiscent of Vaas from Far Cry 3.

Is any of this explained in a way that fits the lore or is it really that egregious and just left to run on as is?

[azogthedefiler25]

Bode was one hell of a spy. He knows how to suppress things and infiltrate. That's the only reason why he wasn't killed. He was a very useful asset. Hiding his force was one of his skills. Bode was written to shock the players in my opinion. We as the players suspected something with Bode, but no one expected the twist we got. It was kind of cheap though if I'm honest. I played the game on the PS5 because I heard it ran better.

[Yojimbo]

Първоначално публикувано от azogthedefiler25:

Bode was one hell of a spy. He knows how to suppress things and infiltrate. That's the only reason why he wasn't killed. He was a very useful asset. Hiding his force was one of his skills. Bode was written to shock the players in my opinion. We as the players suspected something with Bode, but no one expected the twist we got. It was kind of cheap though if I'm honest. I played the game on the PS5 because I heard it ran better.

Suppressing force presence temporarily only works to a degree and depends on who you're hiding it from and you can't suppress your force connection long term without it suffering as a result and Bode suggests he's hidden it this whole time. So to temporarily suppress it to the point that not even a master or night sister doesn't even get a whiff of it is unlikely and if as he suggests he's just kept it suppressed all this time until now then he'd be fairly weak. So it seems it really is that disappointing....guess I'll just read up on the rest and wait for part 3 and hope they do better next time around.

[azogthedefiler25]

Първоначално публикувано от Yojimbo:

Първоначално публикувано от azogthedefiler25:

Bode was one hell of a spy. He knows how to suppress things and infiltrate. That's the only reason why he wasn't killed. He was a very useful asset. Hiding his force was one of his skills. Bode was written to shock the players in my opinion. We as the players suspected something with Bode, but no one expected the twist we got. It was kind of cheap though if I'm honest. I played the game on the PS5 because I heard it ran better.

Suppressing force presence temporarily only works to a degree and depends on who you're hiding it from and you can't suppress your force connection long term without it suffering as a result and Bode suggests he's hidden it this whole time. So to temporarily suppress it to the point that not even a master or night sister doesn't even get a whiff of it is unlikely and if as he suggests he's just kept it suppressed all this time until now then he'd be fairly weak. So it seems it really is that disappointing....guess I'll just read up on the rest and wait for part 3 and hope they do better next time around.

Agreed. Some say Survivor's story was like a bad fan-fiction. Even with young Anakin, Yoda could sense the dark side, before he ever showed anger. The writers wrote Bode to be a outlier.

Edit: Yoda sensed the premonitions of Anakin turning to the darkside.

[Shock_&_Awe]

Първоначално публикувано от Yojimbo:

Suppressing force presence temporarily only works to a degree and depends on who you're hiding it from and you can't suppress your force connection long term without it suffering as a result and Bode suggests he's hidden it this whole time. So to temporarily suppress it to the point that not even a master or night sister doesn't even get a whiff of it is unlikely and if as he suggests he's just kept it suppressed all this time until now then he'd be fairly weak. So it seems it really is that disappointing....guess I'll just read up on the rest and wait for part 3 and hope they do better next time around.

The movies would disagree with you. Palpatine was hiding in front of the Jedi for over a decade and no one really suspected him until it was far too late. His skill also wasn't diminished by this period of suppressing his abilities either.

[azogthedefiler25]

^Good point. I haven't watched the movies in years, so I'm sure I forgot some of explanations for these questions. And things may be different in the books vs the movies when it comes to how the force works. I don't know since I never read the books.

I did a little research. Bode and Palpatine used something called "force clouding or concealment".

[CJM]

I always just assumed that since the Jedi did not recruit force sensitives after a certain age, they just assumed that those with stronger connections to the force were simply untrained.

I couldn't quite pin down between Anakin Skywalker having a natural ability with regards to recognition when piloting pod racers, which made it seem as if he had higher than normal reflexes, and a politicians' natural adeptness at persuasion which might be empowered by latent natural use of the "mind trick" force ability. With that in mind, how can one be a successful politician in the Star Wars galaxy without some natural force ability?

The Force seems to be part of nature in the Jedi universe, and so while we may view such as super natural or having super powers, the Jedi may just view a politician using a mind trick subconsciously as a normal thing. Thus, "force clouding" could very well include hiding in plain sight, like a "Purloined Letter".

[Yojimbo]

Първоначално публикувано от Shock_&_Awe:

The movies would disagree with you. Palpatine was hiding in front of the Jedi for over a decade and no one really suspected him until it was far too late. His skill also wasn't diminished by this period of suppressing his abilities either.

I get what you're suggesting but Bode is a run of the mill nobody Jedi being introduced to other force users that don't immediately trust him and Palpatine was an immensely powerful Sith Lord who was also dealing with a much less paranoid, much more complacent Jedi Council during a time of relative peace. Not really comparable once you get beyond the surface.

[Sabaithal]

Its kind of unclear exactly what the mechanism is that makes Jedi detectable via the force, not just in this series but throughout star wars in general.

We know that Jedi (And force users in general) wishing to hide their presence almost always end up being discovered after actually using the force, so that's probably the key. How long has it been since Bode has used the force? Maybe, like Cere, he cut his connection to the force a long time ago and managed to avoid any and all hint of it until the right moment.

I admit, that would probably be a bit difficult for an apprentice to do... but Cal did it on Brakka, so why not Bode too?

[Shock_&_Awe]

Първоначално публикувано от Yojimbo:

Първоначално публикувано от Shock_&_Awe:

The movies would disagree with you. Palpatine was hiding in front of the Jedi for over a decade and no one really suspected him until it was far too late. His skill also wasn't diminished by this period of suppressing his abilities either.

I get what you're suggesting but Bode is a run of the mill nobody Jedi being introduced to other force users that don't immediately trust him and Palpatine was an immensely powerful Sith Lord who was also dealing with a much less paranoid, much more complacent Jedi Council during a time of relative peace. Not really comparable once you get beyond the surface.

Bode was trained at the Temple in espionage/undercover work. I’m sure they were thorough enough. To add to this, as another user mentioned, all living things are connected to the Force. It’s possible they did sense it, but thought nothing of it since he wasn’t doing anything out of the ordinary for a non-Force user. And finally, it is the dark time. If the Jedi had a hard time sensing things during the height of the Clone War, it’s likely even more difficult at the peak of the Dark Sides influence.

The game uses an existing ability in lore. There’s not much else to it imo

[Yojimbo]

Първоначално публикувано от Shock_&_Awe:

There’s not much else to it

Seems like it. Game does nothing to justify a hack "twist" and there's no solid reasoning how those scenes played out beyond "Palpatine did similar so why not". Nothing more disappointing than a weak third act, especially in games since we put so many more hours into them vs books, tv and movies. Oh well, onto something else.

[CJM]

Първоначално публикувано от Yojimbo:

it really seems like a weak way to create a third act villain

I'm getting more of a sense that you and I disagree on this.

After Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords' Darth Treya or Kreia, I am interested in a more nuanced investigation into Jedi morality.

I find that having Bode as the third act villain is, if nothing else, a step in that direction. For me, Bode's story is a variation on Vader's story.

Since Bode is Vader, there are story beats I expect. The Imperial base on Nova Garon hits most of those story beats, and redeems the game in my eyes.

[Stan]

You don't even have to look beyond the first game to see that Force-users can't just ping an unknown person as having the Force. Otherwise the Inquisitors wouldn't do that whole line-up of the scrappers during the introductory bit on Bracca.

This is consistent with the movies, which have never allowed someone to just identify another as Force-user on meeting them. Vader met Leia and didn't sense anything off about her, either.

The idea that you can just sense that someone else has the Force is more a fan invention than anything.

[Sabaithal]

Първоначално публикувано от stanoje:

You don't even have to look beyond the first game to see that Force-users can't just ping an unknown person as having the Force. Otherwise the Inquisitors wouldn't do that whole line-up of the scrappers during the introductory bit on Bracca.

This is consistent with the movies, which have never allowed someone to just identify another as Force-user on meeting them. Vader met Leia and didn't sense anything off about her, either.

The idea that you can just sense that someone else has the Force is more a fan invention than anything.

I agree, but they can sense the USAGE of force. Still internally consistent and at least provides a method for detection.

Though that does raise the question of "is sensing someone using the force actively causing YOU to use the force in doing so?"

[Stan]

And since Bode wasn't using the Force around Jedi and witches, there was nothing to detect.

This whole thread is rooted in ignoring both what the games and the movies show. It's an utterly bizarre complaint.

[Nomad]

Bode's heel turn is kind of a mess in a lot of ways. For instance, if his plan necessitates Cal destroying the ISB base and killing everyone on the way out, why not simply ask Cal to do so rather than goading him into it? They could do it as soon as he realizes Merrin's cloaking abilities allow them to travel wherever they want. If the goal is to cover his tracks, why not use the chaos to make a move specifically against Lank Denvik, Bode's direct handler and the only ISB officer who actually knows his identity? The way the plan works out, Denvik is still alive and will likely tell the Inquisitors exactly who Bode is and about his daughter. I guess Bode just assumes Cal will kill him given the opportunity?
Another thing, when Bode discovers there's a way to get to Tanalorr that doesn't require his compass, why is his immediate instinct to kill Cal and Merrin? Doing so changes nothing and would basically guarantee the Empire's access to the planet basically as soon as the Inquisition and Vader realize what the High Republic tech is for. If he thinks he's more powerful than Cal, why use him against the ISB base at all?
Very few of Bode's decisions make sense considering what he wants and what he knows his friends are capable of.