Starfield creations, what a con!

[Rick]

Other games have just free mods for many aspects of the game and some how Bethesda finds a way to screw over the players again!

[Berserk Belta]

The answer if you don't like the paid mods is not to pay for them. There's an abundance of free ones.

Not just on Bethesda's creations system, either. There are other companies that make their profits serving user-created content, for instance most of us use nexus mods, who are very happy to fight the good fight for modders' work to always be voluntarily unpaid.

[FB_Destroyer_Rebecca]

They tried it since years. But they got huge backlashes and review bombs. But Bethesda is so consistent with greedy predatory mechanics people just dont care anymore or ignore it since they dont want to listen.
There is a very interesting docu about their sneaky attempts with this payed mod scam but it is in german:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQYjJDqiU14

Maybe there is one in english too but it is crazy what they all pull to get all the bugs out of your wallet.

[Berserk Belta]

I am 100% on board with creators being able to monetize their content if they want to. It is potentially a foot in the door to the industry for some talented people who would have no other chance, and you know what? It's right that there's an optional channel for people to get paid, in a structured and realistic sense, for their work if they want to. There are modders for various games where I would love it if they could fully quit their day job and focus on their brilliant mods.

My main concern with the model as it exists is the lack of consumer protection and support. When you install a free mod, you do so at your own risk, you take responsibility for your load order, you collaborate with the modder and other users if possible and you get no official support, obviously: if it stops working and you can't fix it you are SOL, that's the trade-off you accept if you try out something cool an amateur did for free. I think we're all cool with that.

I am uncomfortable with the idea these downsides seem to be the same or worse with some paid mods - I think that desperately needs to change. You have no support, no communication with the modder, no place on Creations to work through problems with other users (or find solutions previous users arrived at), no guarantee it will keep working, no clear call to action on Creations if it doesn't. Once you are BUYING something it should be of merchantable quality, if it isn't you must be able to refund it, and if you are buying through a channel set up by the devs, with their badge on it, that should imply at least some of the support, maintenance and ownership of outcomes that is (supposed to be) implied when you pay for something branded with a professional software studio's name.

You can't have it both ways imo, if a multi billion dollar corporation is selling it to you, it cannot come with less support and consumer rights than something someone whipped up in an afternoon while listening to a nice bit of dubstep and forgot about forever after they uploaded it. The example is not descriptive of modders in general, *obviously*, who are often excellent and talented (and sometimes maintain/support their work a sight better than certain devs), but when it comes to the level of support and consumer protection offered/conveyed to the customer... well you get the point.

[Ihateeverybody]

I especially hate the part where you are forced to buy these creations in order to play the game..............Wait, you don't.

Buy if you see something you like.....Ignore the T-shirt and bootleg vendor if you don't. Ask yourself why you are even going to a Concert anyway. I assume you have the Record at home.

[FB_Destroyer_Rebecca]

Originally posted by Berserk Va'ruun:

I am 100% on board with creators being able to monetize their content if they want to. It is potentially a foot in the door to the industry for some talented people who would have no other chance, and you know what? It's right that there's an optional channel for people to get paid, in a structured and realistic sense, for their work. There are modders for various games where I would love it if they could fully quit their day job and focus on their brilliant mods.

My main concern with the model as it exists is the lack of consumer protection and support. When you install a free mod, you do so at your own risk, you take responsibility for your load order, you collaborate with the modder and other users if possible and you get no official support, obviously: if it stops working and you can't fix it you are SOL, that's the trade-off you accept if you try out something cool an amateur did for free.

I am uncomfortable with the idea these downsides seem to be the same or worse with some paid mods - I think that desperately needs to change. Once you are BUYING something it should be of merchantable quality, if it isn't you must be able to refund it, and if you are buying through a channel set up by the devs, with their badge on it, that should imply at least some of the support, maintenance and ownership of outcomes that is (supposed to be) implied when you pay for something branded with a professional software studio's name.

You can't have it both ways imo, if a multi billion dollar corporation is selling it to you, it cannot come with less support and consumer rights than something someone whipped up in an afternoon while listening to a nice bit of dubstep and forgot about forever after they uploaded it. The example is not descriptive of modders in general, *obviously*, who are often excellent and talented, but when it comes to the level of support and consumer protection... well you get the point.

It’s fascinating how noble Bethesda’s intentions sound when you ignore the context of their past behavior. Sure, in a perfect world, supporting modders sounds great—helping talented creators quit their day jobs to focus on their craft is an appealing thought. But let’s not pretend Bethesda’s history with paid mods has ever been about empowering creators. It’s been about squeezing as much cash as possible from their community under the guise of 'opportunity.'

If this were really about helping modders, why does Bethesda take such a disproportionate cut of the revenue? Remember the infamous Creation Club? Modders received a mere 25%, while Bethesda and Valve pocketed the rest. So, where exactly is the 'support' for creators? It’s not a helping hand—it’s a corporate cash grab dressed up as a creator-friendly initiative.

And as you so kindly pointed out, buying a mod should come with quality assurance and support. But with Bethesda, the reality has been the opposite. From mods being buggy and abandoned to paid DLC-like mods that fail to justify their price tag, the system is riddled with issues. Consumer protection and quality control? Nonexistent. When you’re buying a 'professional' product under a studio’s branding, you should expect reliability, but Bethesda is happy to shirk that responsibility while taking a massive cut of the profits.

Lastly, your argument hinges on this black-and-white ideology that monetizing mods is inherently good because it opens doors for modders. Sure, in theory. But when Bethesda locks down free modding alternatives and forces everything into their ecosystem (while discouraging direct creator support like Patreon), it stops being about opportunity and starts being about control. Imagine a world where free, community-driven mods are drowned out by paid alternatives that barely function—and if you think Bethesda wouldn’t push it that far, just look at their track record.

In short, it’s not the idea of paying creators that’s the problem—it’s the execution, greed, and lack of accountability from companies like Bethesda that make it clear they’re not here to support modders; they’re here to exploit them.

Fanboying a developer only harms the player by excusing failures instead of driving improvement.

[wyodinosaur]

Solution: Use the Nexus site instead. I almost exclusively use Nexus. They have a better selection of mods and they are less buggy than the Creations system.

[DANEDANGER]

Nothing new nor strange, also you can use them but there are plenty of free mods on there too. Stop trying to create issues that do not exist!!

[Berserk Belta]

Originally posted by FB_Destroyer_Rebecca:

Originally posted by Berserk Va'ruun:

I am 100% on board with creators being able to monetize their content if they want to. It is potentially a foot in the door to the industry for some talented people who would have no other chance, and you know what? It's right that there's an optional channel for people to get paid, in a structured and realistic sense, for their work. There are modders for various games where I would love it if they could fully quit their day job and focus on their brilliant mods.

My main concern with the model as it exists is the lack of consumer protection and support. When you install a free mod, you do so at your own risk, you take responsibility for your load order, you collaborate with the modder and other users if possible and you get no official support, obviously: if it stops working and you can't fix it you are SOL, that's the trade-off you accept if you try out something cool an amateur did for free.

I am uncomfortable with the idea these downsides seem to be the same or worse with some paid mods - I think that desperately needs to change. Once you are BUYING something it should be of merchantable quality, if it isn't you must be able to refund it, and if you are buying through a channel set up by the devs, with their badge on it, that should imply at least some of the support, maintenance and ownership of outcomes that is (supposed to be) implied when you pay for something branded with a professional software studio's name.

You can't have it both ways imo, if a multi billion dollar corporation is selling it to you, it cannot come with less support and consumer rights than something someone whipped up in an afternoon while listening to a nice bit of dubstep and forgot about forever after they uploaded it. The example is not descriptive of modders in general, *obviously*, who are often excellent and talented, but when it comes to the level of support and consumer protection... well you get the point.

It’s fascinating how noble Bethesda’s intentions sound when you ignore the context of their past behavior. Sure, in a perfect world, supporting modders sounds great—helping talented creators quit their day jobs to focus on their craft is an appealing thought. But let’s not pretend Bethesda’s history with paid mods has ever been about empowering creators. It’s been about squeezing as much cash as possible from their community under the guise of 'opportunity.'

If this were really about helping modders, why does Bethesda take such a disproportionate cut of the revenue? Remember the infamous Creation Club? Modders received a mere 25%, while Bethesda and Valve pocketed the rest. So, where exactly is the 'support' for creators? It’s not a helping hand—it’s a corporate cash grab dressed up as a creator-friendly initiative.

And as you so kindly pointed out, buying a mod should come with quality assurance and support. But with Bethesda, the reality has been the opposite. From mods being buggy and abandoned to paid DLC-like mods that fail to justify their price tag, the system is riddled with issues. Consumer protection and quality control? Nonexistent. When you’re buying a 'professional' product under a studio’s branding, you should expect reliability, but Bethesda is happy to shirk that responsibility while taking a massive cut of the profits.

Lastly, your argument hinges on this black-and-white ideology that monetizing mods is inherently good because it opens doors for modders. Sure, in theory. But when Bethesda locks down free modding alternatives and forces everything into their ecosystem (while discouraging direct creator support like Patreon), it stops being about opportunity and starts being about control. Imagine a world where free, community-driven mods are drowned out by paid alternatives that barely function—and if you think Bethesda wouldn’t push it that far, just look at their track record.

In short, it’s not the idea of paying creators that’s the problem—it’s the execution, greed, and lack of accountability from companies like Bethesda that make it clear they’re not here to support modders; they’re here to exploit them.

Fanboying a developer only harms the player by excusing failures instead of driving improvement.

In the first place, I don't really accept the notion of being concerned about the contract terms available between two other voluntary parties as an argument against the concept, until/unless there is an effective monopoly in place, at which point it obviously becomes a very different conversation. If you want to monetize your work, and have someone else publish it to a wider audience than you can reach yourself then you have the option to negotiate/accept the terms, how much you want to pay for marketing and hosting, any validation testing and liability the publisher takes on etc. You also expect some publishers - especially the early ones in the market, to be predatory and unreasonable, and even the ones that aren't so bad to offer you less money than you would like initially. This is something similar to what I have had to work with/against, and the answer to many of the problems involved at a general level (ie not things you address personally) is there must be alternative ways to publish your work, including self publishing so creators can drive the publishers' cut down.

So what you're talking about there is not an argument against the existence of people monetizing their creative work (which I would disagree with) or an argument against a company acting as a publisher attempting to get a good cut or even take the piss (which is as inevitable as the sea and the wind) but an argument against effective monopoly. And to the extent creations does that, and nobody else offers monetization channels, I would agree. If we are using "but their percentage cuts therefore only free mods", then not so much. More options, and gamers getting to direct the outcomes with their decisions, is the answer.

For instance, competitors who have identified a danger to modders and gamers that they cared about might work to provide alternative channels for creators to monetize their content, perhaps under better terms, and let gamers endorse or reject as they wish. As opposed, for instance, to businesses whose profits are predicated upon content creators' willingness to upload work for free, under sometimes predatory IP terms, behaving in a very different way to protect that rich seam of gold, with a very thin mask of nobility.

My main concern is still the consumer protections and support offered/conveyed to customers. Implicit in the publishing deal should be the idea that there is now a relationship between the customer and the product, and from the customer's perspective they will stand behind that product within reason. A trillion dollar company should not be running a store (from which their games' mindshare gets enormous value) like the wild west.

[kdodds]

ROFLMAO. Imagine being angry that your favorite modders can now make money doing what they do. Imagine not understanding overhead. The lack of understanding is hysterical, but also kind of gross. It's like Idiocracy asserting itself as a Utopia.

[FB_Destroyer_Rebecca]

Originally posted by Berserk Va'ruun:

Originally posted by FB_Destroyer_Rebecca:

It’s fascinating how noble Bethesda’s intentions sound when you ignore the context of their past behavior. Sure, in a perfect world, supporting modders sounds great—helping talented creators quit their day jobs to focus on their craft is an appealing thought. But let’s not pretend Bethesda’s history with paid mods has ever been about empowering creators. It’s been about squeezing as much cash as possible from their community under the guise of 'opportunity.'

If this were really about helping modders, why does Bethesda take such a disproportionate cut of the revenue? Remember the infamous Creation Club? Modders received a mere 25%, while Bethesda and Valve pocketed the rest. So, where exactly is the 'support' for creators? It’s not a helping hand—it’s a corporate cash grab dressed up as a creator-friendly initiative.

And as you so kindly pointed out, buying a mod should come with quality assurance and support. But with Bethesda, the reality has been the opposite. From mods being buggy and abandoned to paid DLC-like mods that fail to justify their price tag, the system is riddled with issues. Consumer protection and quality control? Nonexistent. When you’re buying a 'professional' product under a studio’s branding, you should expect reliability, but Bethesda is happy to shirk that responsibility while taking a massive cut of the profits.

Lastly, your argument hinges on this black-and-white ideology that monetizing mods is inherently good because it opens doors for modders. Sure, in theory. But when Bethesda locks down free modding alternatives and forces everything into their ecosystem (while discouraging direct creator support like Patreon), it stops being about opportunity and starts being about control. Imagine a world where free, community-driven mods are drowned out by paid alternatives that barely function—and if you think Bethesda wouldn’t push it that far, just look at their track record.

In short, it’s not the idea of paying creators that’s the problem—it’s the execution, greed, and lack of accountability from companies like Bethesda that make it clear they’re not here to support modders; they’re here to exploit them.

Fanboying a developer only harms the player by excusing failures instead of driving improvement.

In the first place, I don't really accept the notion of being concerned about the contract terms available between two other voluntary parties as an argument against the concept, until/unless there is an effective monopoly in place, at which point it obviously becomes a very different conversation. If you want to monetize your work, and have someone else publish it to a wider audience than you can reach yourself then you have the option to negotiate/accept the terms, how much you want to pay for marketing and hosting, any validation testing and liability the publisher takes on etc. You also expect some publishers - especially the early ones in the market, to be predatory and unreasonable, and even the ones that aren't so bad to offer you less money than you would like initially. This is something similar to what I have had to work with/against, and the answer to many of the problems involved at a general level (ie not things you address personally) is there must be alternative ways to publish your work, including self publishing so creators can drive the publishers' cut down.

So what you're talking about there is not an argument against the existence of people monetizing their creative work (which I would disagree with) or an argument against a company acting as a publisher attempting to get a good cut or even take the piss (which is as inevitable as the sea and the wind) but an argument against effective monopoly. And to the extent creations does that, and nobody else offers monetization channels, I would agree. If we are using "but their percentage cuts therefore only free mods", then not so much. More options, and gamers getting to direct the outcomes with their decisions, is the answer.

For instance, competitors who have identified a danger to modders and gamers that they cared about might work to provide alternative channels for creators to monetize their content, perhaps under better terms, and let gamers endorse or reject as they wish. As opposed, for instance, to businesses whose profits are predicated upon content creators' willingness to upload work for free, under sometimes predatory IP terms, behaving in a very different way to protect that rich seam of gold, with a very thin mask of nobility.

My main concern is still the consumer protections and support offered/conveyed to customers. A trillion dollar company should not be running a store (from which their games' mindshare gets enormous value) like the wild west.

Your argument conveniently ignores the key issue: Bethesda isn't just 'another publisher' negotiating with modders—they’ve actively tried to monopolize mod monetization while taking massive cuts, leaving creators with scraps. Pretending this is a simple free-market exchange between 'voluntary parties' overlooks the power imbalance when a trillion-dollar company controls the ecosystem.

Alternative platforms sound great in theory, but when a giant like Bethesda discourages external systems (like Patreon) and pushes creators into their ecosystem, it’s not 'competition'—it’s gatekeeping. And sure, bad terms might be 'inevitable,' but excusing predatory practices just because 'it happens' is a pretty bleak standard for creators.

Ultimately, the issue isn’t the concept of paid mods—it’s the execution. Bethesda’s model shifts the risk to modders and consumers while raking in profits. If they want to act like a publisher, they need to provide real consumer protections and fair revenue sharing. Otherwise, it’s not a free market—it’s exploitation disguised as opportunity.

[Mick Savage]

For every predatory studio there's a indie studio waiting to take its place. It won't be long now, Bethesda and a few others will be gone.

[lizzo (report harder)]

Originally posted by Rick:

Other games have just free mods for many aspects of the game and some how Bethesda finds a way to screw over the players again!

don't forget bethesda takes a 75% cut from the modders using the creation page. if that isn't a con I don't know what is.

Originally posted by Mick Salvage:

For every predatory studio there's a indie studio waiting to take its place. It won't be long now, Bethesda and a few others will be gone.

very true this is a good thing for gamers.

[A. Silvermane]

User rating system and Better curation is what the system needs. later isn't going to happen as that would require Bethesda actually put in some work, former should be mandatory on a store front so people know they aren't throwing their money away on a mod

[kdodds]

Originally posted by Mick Salvage:

For every predatory studio there's a indie studio waiting to take its place. It won't be long now, Bethesda and a few others will be gone.

You do realize that this has been predicted by various individuals who, as proven through time, had no idea what they were talking about. But, no, really guys, this is for realz this time. ROFLMAO. Daggerfall was the end of Bethesda, Morrowind was an abomination gimmicky 3D that wouldn't last and would be the end, Fallout 3 was an abomination and insulting to the IP and would spell the end, Oblivion destroyed everything that was great in Morrowind and would be the end, Skyrim was dumbed down and not even an RPG but a walking simulator and would be the end... Yet, here we are, doomcriers crying doom. Fer REALZ dis tym GUYZ.

[Ǥɾᴧᴤʆᴧᵯᴧ]

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