JOYSTICK SUPPORT: Required for Space Games

[Reaver]

Mouse&Keyboard, Gamepads, why no Joystick Support for a game that involves so much space flight time? Get Joystck Support in Starfield and I'll start playing again right away. At the moment I am playing Skyrim with some mods, MechWarrior 5 also with mods, and City of Heroes of course.

MechWarrior requires a joystick IMHO and it supports joysticks. You can play MechWarrior 5 with a mouse & keyboard or gamepad, but for immersion you need a joystick. It is a piloting game with FPS segments and the two controller types mesh seamlessly.

Starfield is the same. You get into a space dogfight at almost every planet, but there you are with some very wonky mouse and keyboard controls. With a joystick these battles would be pure joy, but as is it's just not working to make you feel like you are actually piloting anything.

The game would be 1000 percent more immersive if space combat allowed use of a joystick.

[jobo3010]

Originally posted by patrick68794:

Originally posted by jobo3010:

The "space flight" in this game isn't real space flight though. More like a mix of a turret in space with an ace combat gameplay overlay. The people that defend the storage combat probably have never really understood flight mechanics in the games they've played if any. For instance Ace Combat usually puts the throttle at flight idle automatically so you don't fall out of the sky, so really all you control is pitch, roll, yaw, accelerate/decelerate (from flight idle), and then weapon 1 & 2 with a another button for switching special and missiles. That's the bare minimum for an arcade flight simulator where the vehicle can only go in one direction realistically. Forward.

Starfield is exactly the same except it's in space, so you can be at a full stop, and your accelerate and decelerate go from there instead. Except in space you can literally go any direction you want as long as you have some kind of thrusters to support that maneuver. Starfield is incapable of that kind of movement from Bethesda though because despite their "NASA punk" theme, their space ships are actually airplanes or I guess technically rockets.

You don't need a joystick for that kind of action, an XBOX One controller 2.0 will suffice. BGS:

Increase speed = [W]
Decrease speed = [S]
Weapons 1 = [Mouse 1]
Weapons 2 = [Mouse 2]
Weapons 3 = [G]
Engine Boost = [Left Shift]

Switch between ship systems = [Left & Right arrow keys]
Increase/Decrease power levels = [Up & Down arrow keys]

The game has 6DOF flight, just so you're aware.

On the Xbox controller the standard flight mode is roll and forward/backward on left stick, pitch and yaw on right. Hold down right bumper and you get both vertical and horizontal strafe with the left stick

I mean even Ace Combat tried helicopter flight with Assault Horizon. But it was ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. Starfield's flight simulation is the same, maybe slightly better which isn't saying anything good. That's literally a copy paste from BGS website on Starfield "flight controls" for MK. They don't seem to give a ♥♥♥♥ about the space aspect of their space game. Was a big turn off for me right away, and my expectations were already pretty low considering this was an RPG company that barely got FPS acceptable. And it's not a difficult thing to do apparently, smaller studios with simpler games like Rebel Galaxy Outlaw or Everspace 1/2 pulled it off, and Everspace even has exploration and RPG mechanics built in. I don't even know why Bethesda bothered if they weren't going to do more than the bare minimum.

[patrick68794]

Originally posted by jobo3010:

Originally posted by patrick68794:

The game has 6DOF flight, just so you're aware.

On the Xbox controller the standard flight mode is roll and forward/backward on left stick, pitch and yaw on right. Hold down right bumper and you get both vertical and horizontal strafe with the left stick

I mean even Ace Combat tried helicopter flight with Assault Horizon. But it was ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. Starfield's flight simulation is the same, maybe slightly better which isn't saying anything good. That's literally a copy paste from BGS website on Starfield "flight controls" for MK. They don't seem to give a ♥♥♥♥ about the space aspect of their space game. Was a big turn off for me right away, and my expectations were already pretty low considering this was an RPG company that barely got FPS acceptable. And it's not a difficult thing to do apparently, smaller studios with simpler games like Rebel Galaxy Outlaw or Everspace 1/2 pulled it off, and Everspace even has exploration and RPG mechanics built in. I don't even know why Bethesda bothered if they weren't going to do more than the bare minimum.

You claimed there was no 6DOF flight, and you were wrong. Just admit it and move on lol

[Die Hand Gottes]

For me, nothing beats a gamepad. I've been playing almost everything with a controller for over 15 years and have been using an XBOX Elite 2 controller for a few months now.

[titanopteryx]

Originally posted by Reaver:

Mouse&Keyboard, Gamepads, why no Joystick Support for a game that involves so much space flight time? Get Joystck Support in Starfield and I'll start playing again right away. At the moment I am playing Skyrim with some mods, MechWarrior 5 also with mods, and City of Heroes of course.

MechWarrior requires a joystick IMHO and it supports joysticks. You can play MechWarrior 5 with a mouse & keyboard or gamepad, but for immersion you need a joystick. It is a piloting game with FPS segments and the two controller types mesh seamlessly.

Starfield is the same. You get into a space dogfight at almost every planet, but there you are with some very wonky mouse and keyboard controls. With a joystick these battles would be pure joy, but as is it's just not working to make you feel like you are actually piloting anything.

The game would be 1000 percent more immersive if space combat allowed use of a joystick.

A joystick would make the fights more enjoyable, not more immersive. A real life fight between spaceships would be more like submarine warfare and a lot less like fighter jets.

The fact that you can hear the enemy ship already destroys immersion. There isn't supposed to be air in space which means sound can't travel. But in this game you not only can hear enemy ships in space, you can hear npc ships landing on moons that don't have an atmosphere.

Apparently in Starfield there's air in space. So we can hear sounds and spaceships behave like fighter jets.

[Reaver]

I was just looking at X-4 the Final Frontier and it looks very nice. I played X, X-2, X-3, but not much of X-4, but the X games have good joystick support and very cutting edge space combat, or at least if you don't maneuver right you won't hit much.

The only space game I ever played with real space physics as an option was Independence War (a moment of silence please.) And it was the best ever space-ship game. You commanded a corvette-class starship and during combat you had to keep it repaired well enough to win, but you could go into the engineering post and prioritize which systems got repaired next, like thrusters and maybe just one gun so you could finish off your disabled opponent before they got their systems running. All the while you are tumbling helplessly and watching the repair timers count down. A nice take on situational awareness.

Starfield doesn't have turrets, just auto-turrets, so standard joystick controls would work fine. A Joystick would give players analog control axis's so instead of the HUD bobbing up and down it would move smoothly through turns and rotations, like the space shuttle on landings. You do know after the energy turn the space shuttle was landed by a human pilot with a joystck, right?

[HeyYou]

Originally posted by Reaver:

I was just looking at X-4 the Final Frontier and it looks very nice. I played X, X-2, X-3, but not much of X-4, but the X games have good joystick support and very cutting edge space combat, or at least if you don't maneuver right you won't hit much.

The only space game I ever played with real space physics as an option was Independence War (a moment of silence please.) And it was the best ever space-ship game. You commanded a corvette-class starship and during combat you had to keep it repaired well enough to win, but you could go into the engineering post and prioritize which systems got repaired next, like thrusters and maybe just one gun so you could finish off your disabled opponent before they got their systems running. All the while you are tumbling helplessly and watching the repair timers count down. A nice take on situational awareness.

Starfield doesn't have turrets, just auto-turrets, so standard joystick controls would work fine. A Joystick would give players analog control axis's so instead of the HUD bobbing up and down it would move smoothly through turns and rotations, like the space shuttle on landings. You do know after the energy turn the space shuttle was landed by a human pilot with a joystck, right?

On re-entry, the shuttle was just a very large glider. Unpowered. You get ONE chance to land, there are no go-arounds. Do it right the first time, or die in mass of shredded metal. :D

At the time, we didn't have computers that were capable of that kind of operation. :D Today though, aircraft regularly guide themselves to the right spot on the runway, each and every time.

[Reaver]

The Space Shuttle was capable of landing itself. It did several times in testing. However the flight computer always handled the final G-Turn on landing that would place the Shuttle at the right speed centered on the glide path. Then the pilot would takeover the final glide to touchdown.

Anyhow, does this game have joystick support yet? Or a workaround or Modded Joystick Support? Since this is their first Spaceflight game I can see how Bethesda would overlook the intrinsic value of a Joystick for spaceflight, but a joystick is how you maneuver those asteroid fields to come up on your opponent's '6'. A mouse will likely as not crash you into the asteroid.

[jobo3010]

HOTAS in this game? It didn't even come with a FOV slider. Most of the "optimization for next gen PC" for this game required editing an ini file like it's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ 1998. HOTAS didn't really exist for gaming then, so you can't expect Bethesda to live up to that worn out "hater" standard of modernization. Just get gud. And don't think about how ♥♥♥♥ the gameplay is anyway (half your flight controls are hidden behind a function key press, because they wanted you to fly this like Ace Combat). Game is garbage, HOTAS would just elevate how ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ the space combat and the crap AI is.

[=CrimsoN=]

Freelancer never required a HOTAs and it's often hailed as one of the best space sims of all time.

I love space games, but I wouldn't call it a necessity.

[NotInTheFaceNotInTheFace]

I use an Xbox PC controller, which has ... two... joysticks. Space isn't a problem for me.

[vonbleak]

Because its not a hardcore space sim...? I mean thats pretty obvious right...? Its a BGS rpg game, not a hardcore space sim...

Use an Xbox controller - Easy solution...

[Gul Bjorn]

the space fighting is weak compared to most i've played, this is a moot point.

[Die Hand Gottes]

Originally posted by vonbleak:

Because its not a hardcore space sim...? I mean thats pretty obvious right...? Its a BGS rpg game, not a hardcore space sim...

Use an Xbox controller - Easy solution...

Yes, just use the Xbox controller I've also played Fallout New Vegas with the wireless Xbox controller
and then played everything else with it and now with the Xbox Elite 2 everything is great

[Reaver]

Originally posted by =CrimsoN=:

Freelancer never required a HOTAs and it's often hailed as one of the best space sims of all time.

I love space games, but I wouldn't call it a necessity.

Freelancer ships had turrets you aimed yourself while the ship flew under you, so to speak. In Starfield you can't aim or control the turrets and you get the cockpit view for your guns. It's like comparing apples to oranges.

And the reason you get Xbox Controllers is so the game can run on Xbox which does not have native support for joysticks. Microsoft used to have Sidewinder Joysticks and back then joystick support was mandatory or no money from Microsoft. Then they went all in on Xbox and buried Sidewinder and withdrew all support for it and joysticks, even in Flight Simulator, roflmao!!! They did not want PC's to have any advantage in games over Xbox versions.

So the decision to not have joysticks in games was not made by PC gamers. It was just removed in spite of the complaints from gamers at the time. Likely on orders from Microsoft who paid to block release of games like 'Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic' from the PC for 6 months to give the Xbox an exclusive release even though the game was designed for the PC and slated for release to the PC in June of 2003. For shame Bioware.

Now Starfield players will never have the option of trying Starfield's space combat with a joystick and drift off to spaceflight games that get it right.

[patrick68794]

Originally posted by Reaver:

Originally posted by =CrimsoN=:

Freelancer never required a HOTAs and it's often hailed as one of the best space sims of all time.

I love space games, but I wouldn't call it a necessity.

Freelancer ships had turrets you aimed yourself while the ship flew under you, so to speak. In Starfield you can't aim or control the turrets and you get the cockpit view for your guns. It's like comparing apples to oranges.

And the reason you get Xbox Controllers is so the game can run on Xbox which does not have native support for joysticks. Microsoft used to have Sidewinder Joysticks and back then joystick support was mandatory or no money from Microsoft. Then they went all in on Xbox and buried Sidewinder and withdrew all support for it and joysticks, even in Flight Simulator, roflmao!!! They did not want PC's to have any advantage in games over Xbox versions.

So the decision to not have joysticks in games was not made by PC gamers. It was just removed in spite of the complaints from gamers at the time. Likely on orders from Microsoft who paid to block release of games like 'Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic' from the PC for 6 months to give the Xbox an exclusive release even though the game was designed for the PC and slated for release to the PC in June of 2003. For shame Bioware.

Now Starfield players will never have the option of trying Starfield's space combat with a joystick and drift off to spaceflight games that get it right.

Xbox does have native joystick support.

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2021/07/22/official-microsoft-flight-sim-accessories/

"Turtle Beach VelocityOne Flight is a complete, inclusive flight control system for Xbox Series X|S"

"The Honeycomb Alpha Flight Controls XPC is an advanced flight simulation system compatible with Xbox Series X|S consoles."

"The T.Flight Full Kit X is great for playing Microsoft Flight Simulator on Xbox Series X|S. It is a full flight simulation kit for gamers seeking immersive and realistic flight sessions."