How does it compare to something like Wing Commander: Privateer?

[Lavian]

So, I've seen plenty of complaints about how Starfield doesn't live up to expectations in the space department and how you can't take off and land on planets seamlessly, etc. etc.

I get that it's largely futuristic rather than retro sci-fi Fallout 4.

That said, what I haven't seen is how it actually compares to other space games that aren't specifically Elite Dangerous or No Man's Sky.

So, how does it compare to some of the other open world space combat/trading games?

Like, you can't seamlessly take off and land in Privateer, Freelancer, Rebel Galaxy Outlaw, and so on, but I still love those games, and I don't really miss the planetary takeoff/landing from stuff like No Man's Sky and Evochron. Even though I think that feature is really cool, it's not a "must have."

I'm absolutely fine with, "You are now entering an automated landing zone."

So... Is there space-based missions? Bounties that require you to hunt down ships? Scouting missions with nav points you're directed around to? Capital ship assaults? Installation assaults? Boarding? Escort missions? Acting as a space pirate by scanning ships, getting them to drop their cargo by contacting (and perhaps shooting) them to tractor in? An economy (fully simulated or not) where you can buy products from one planet/station and bring it to another for a profit?

Is there any dedicated space content at all, or is really just the thing in between land-based points of interest?

I would mention X4, but honestly, I don't really want something like X4. As much as I actually like X4, the business empire simulation actually starts to take over the entire game, and that's not really what I want.

[Trouter]

I think it is a mistake to compare this to space 'sims'. This is a Bethesda RPG. If you have never liked Bethesda RPG's you will not like this. If you expect it to be X4/Privateer/Elite Dangerous you will be disappointed.

[Trouter]

And I say this as someone who enjoys the game, but I enjoyed previous Bethesda RPGs

[Mathias Giovanni]

It’s mass effect and privateer combined. Plus a bit of No Mans Sky.

[Lavian]

Originally posted by Trouter:

I think it is a mistake to compare this to space 'sims'. This is a Bethesda RPG. If you have never liked Bethesda RPG's you will not like this. If you expect it to be X4/Privateer/Elite Dangerous you will be disappointed.

I keep hearing that, but I'm not seeing any detail and what is actually there, so I don't really have an idea what is actually there.

Is there actually things to do in space other than just travel from planet to planet?

[Trouter]

Originally posted by Lavian:

Originally posted by Trouter:

I think it is a mistake to compare this to space 'sims'. This is a Bethesda RPG. If you have never liked Bethesda RPG's you will not like this. If you expect it to be X4/Privateer/Elite Dangerous you will be disappointed.

I keep hearing that, but I'm not seeing any detail and what is actually there, so I don't really have an idea what is actually there.

Is there actually things to do in space other than just travel from planet to planet?

Personally I think the best content is in the 'quests', particularly the 'faction' quests. When you explore the cities in particular, you will meet people who will open up interesting storylines/quests. The game does have some 'dynamic procedural' content you can find by exploring the planets, but it does get old after awhile. In my opinion, the quests for Bethesda games have always been the 'core' content, so I think these are the best game elements to seek out.

[Jaggid Edje]

Doesn't really compare at all. Quite different type of games.

Now, with that said, one of the reasons I actually enjoy the space combat even though it is pretty basic (though not as basic as NMS) is that it channels Wing Commander vibes. I was a HUGE fan of Wing Commander (1 and 2 moreso than 3), and the combat in this game is very reminiscent of it.

And yes, there are missions available for all of the things you mentioned. As well as 'random stuff' that can just happen when you are flying about. The space content is not nearly as non-existent as those who haven't actually played much of the game claim.
You can even mine asteroids.

There is no simulated economy though. Which imo is a big miss on the part of BGS.

[Lavian]

Originally posted by Trouter:

Originally posted by Lavian:

I keep hearing that, but I'm not seeing any detail and what is actually there, so I don't really have an idea what is actually there.

Is there actually things to do in space other than just travel from planet to planet?

Personally I think the best content is in the 'quests', particularly the 'faction' quests. When you explore the cities in particular, you will meet people who will open up interesting storylines/quests. The game does have some 'dynamic procedural' content you can find by exploring the planets, but it does get old after awhile. In my opinion, the quests for Bethesda games have always been the 'core' content, so I think these are the best game elements to seek out.

I mean, sure, but the random missions in open world space games were already pretty much Bethesda radiant quests before radiant quests were a thing.

"We need you to assist our ships being attacked by X faction at Y postion. The danger level is Z." or "We need X units of Y material delivered to Z outpost. There is N chance of being intercepted during your delivery."

Edit: Actually come to think of it, that's also how a lot of quests worked in Daggerfall.

Not exactly complex stuff. Is there really not even anything like this?

[Defective Dopamine Pez Dispenser]

So, technically, on paper, there are several things to do in space. Hailing ships, docking with stations (some of which are pretty fleshed out, populated with NPCs, have some quest givers, etc.) getting attacked by pirates (or engaging in piracy yourself,) etc. And you can technically even travel from planet to planet, though it takes hours and there's no reason to, as once you arrive, you still just have to select a landing spot and load in anyway. But you can.

In practice however, most of your time in space is very brief. I think of the game as being divided into three different modes. Major handcrafted cities, planetary exploration (which is mostly for gathering resources, and contains procgen RNG points of interest like bases you can explore if you wish to but you never really have to,) and space. And I think of space as the least substantial. It's more like interstitial tissue tying the other two together, if that makes sense.

In practice, you'll take off from a planet (which is a cutscene,) and then once in space, yes, you can navigate around a bit, you can do all the things mentioned. But in actual practice it feels like you're only ever in a small local area next to the planet you just left (unless you really do fly for hours between planets or days/weeks between star systems,) until you click on the next destination, click "travel" and then - if it's a planet - fast travel there, or - if it's another star system - grav jump there. Both of which are also cutscenes.

This doesn't bother me personally at all, and I still find it very cool. And you can also get out of your cockpit and walk around your ship, talk to your crew, etc. But it's still true that there's not a whole lot to this section of the game, and it would be a mistake to compare it to Privateer imo.

There are bounties that involve ship to ship, but again, in practice, this means fast travelling, spawning right in front of them, immediately being in battle, and either scuttling them or capturing them within seconds or a minute or two tops on the hardest difficulty. There aren't any (that I've seen at least) lengthy "in space" missions that have you navigating over longer distances or multi-step tasks, etc.

Most missions that involve space are bounties involving ship battles, cargo missions (deliver X to Y, via fast travel,) or of the "go here and talk to A, then return to B" variety.

Imo the most enjoyable space content I've found so far are bases or ships that are mysteriously malfunctioning or abandoned with a little bit of environmental storytelling going on to unravel.

[Lavian]

So they have the components, but they're not all that well fleshed out?

That sounds fine enough, for a game with all the other parts as well, I guess.

[Iron Horse]

Trying to create a space sim is a big ambition. I have no problem with not being able to land or take off of planets given the scope of the game.

I have 30+ hours in the game, and have mostly done faction missions. Most of my time in space has been going from point A to B. I could have taken some bounty side missions. I did the faction missions.

The space combat I did in the game was lackluster. It reminded me how great of a game X Wing, a 30 year old game was, by what StarField was missing. Missing things like being able to see, and cycle through the craft in the area, and see what they are exactly. Missing things like being able to tell if you are being shot at. You almost have to go into the third person mode in combat to see if you are being shot at. With 30+ hours in the game, mostly doing faction missions, it is Fallout in Space more than a Space sim. That would be fine.....given it was not woke. Woke is more than just the character creation. When companies decide to be woke, it is more of a philosophical or ideological thing that effect storytelling as well. The storytelling has been bad. That may hurt replay-ability, and people sticking around.

[Trouter]

Originally posted by Iron Horse:

Trying to create a space sim is a big ambition. I have no problem with not being able to land or take off of planets given the scope of the game.

I have 30+ hours in the game, and have mostly done faction missions. Most of my time in space has been going from point A to B. I could have taken some bounty side missions. I did the faction missions.

The space combat I did in the game was lackluster. It reminded me how great of a game X Wing, a 30 year old game was, by what StarField was missing. Missing things like being able to see, and cycle through the craft in the area, and see what they are exactly. Missing things like being able to tell if you are being shot at. You almost have to go into the third person mode in combat to see if you are being shot at. With 30+ hours in the game, mostly doing faction missions, it is Fallout in Space more than a Space sim. That would be fine.....given it was not woke. Woke is more than just the character creation. When companies decide to be woke, it is more of a philosophical or ideological thing that effect storytelling as well. The storytelling has been bad. That may hurt replay-ability, and people sticking around.

The OP did not ask you on your opinion on whether the game is 'woke' or not so please leave and find the more appropriate place to discuss this.

[Iron Horse]

Originally posted by Trouter:

Originally posted by Iron Horse:

Trying to create a space sim is a big ambition. I have no problem with not being able to land or take off of planets given the scope of the game.

I have 30+ hours in the game, and have mostly done faction missions. Most of my time in space has been going from point A to B. I could have taken some bounty side missions. I did the faction missions.

The space combat I did in the game was lackluster. It reminded me how great of a game X Wing, a 30 year old game was, by what StarField was missing. Missing things like being able to see, and cycle through the craft in the area, and see what they are exactly. Missing things like being able to tell if you are being shot at. You almost have to go into the third person mode in combat to see if you are being shot at. With 30+ hours in the game, mostly doing faction missions, it is Fallout in Space more than a Space sim. That would be fine.....given it was not woke. Woke is more than just the character creation. When companies decide to be woke, it is more of a philosophical or ideological thing that effect storytelling as well. The storytelling has been bad. That may hurt replay-ability, and people sticking around.

The OP did not ask you on your opinion on whether the game is 'woke' or not so please leave and find the more appropriate place to discuss this.

The OP can speak for himself guy. The road to hell was paved with good intentions.

[Iron Horse]

Originally posted by The Son of Suns:

Originally posted by Iron Horse:

Trying to create a space sim is a big ambition. I have no problem with not being able to land or take off of planets given the scope of the game.

I have 30+ hours in the game, and have mostly done faction missions. Most of my time in space has been going from point A to B. I could have taken some bounty side missions. I did the faction missions.

The space combat I did in the game was lackluster. It reminded me how great of a game X Wing, a 30 year old game was, by what StarField was missing. Missing things like being able to see, and cycle through the craft in the area, and see what they are exactly. Missing things like being able to tell if you are being shot at. You almost have to go into the third person mode in combat to see if you are being shot at. With 30+ hours in the game, mostly doing faction missions, it is Fallout in Space more than a Space sim. That would be fine.....given it was not woke. Woke is more than just the character creation. When companies decide to be woke, it is more of a philosophical or ideological thing that effect storytelling as well. The storytelling has been bad. That may hurt replay-ability, and people sticking around.

Nobody cares about your answer when you're a frightened pygmy scared about whatever "woke" is.

Are you some sort of window licking goon that you scrolled through this forum, to dig up a dead post, and comment to me? You must really hate yourself?

Woke is a type of mysticism. It is where someone stole something from Christianity, twisted and presented it back to the public in a corrupt way. Awake is something very particular in Christianity. (Ezekiel 12:2)(Proverbs 20:12)(Matthew 13;15-17) Do you have ears to hear what the spirit is saying to the Churches? Woke is where someone was using certain spiritualism for Man's purposes.

[d[-_-]b]

Originally posted by Trouter:

I think it is a mistake to compare this to space 'sims'. This is a Bethesda RPG. If you have never liked Bethesda RPG's you will not like this. If you expect it to be X4/Privateer/Elite Dangerous you will be disappointed.

As a long time player of ED/X4/NMS++ Starfield is far better than all of them from my experience. They are all great games in their own way, but - just like Starfield - they all have their own baggage train of issues or pros/cons.

I'm not even a BGS fan. I've played a few of their games, but never really got into them for a number of reasons.

Enjoying Starfields take on space sims, even though it's technically not a "space sim".
It adds a lot of the things I missed in ED/NMS++ (or does them better) and removes a lot of the tedious grind that plagues them all. Modding is the superpower to let you tune the experience to your personal taste, so there's no grind in Starfield for me. It's a simple of tuning it with a few mods to remove grind but keep a balance of difficulty to have some hard fun.

[Lavian]

So, obviously, if you've been paying attention. I ended up picking up Starfield. Hence the mouse icon.

I'm gonna be honest, I'm loving the hell out of Starfield, but I will say the the fact that it skips over a lot of the space travel, thus skipping over potential encounters (unless you fiddle around with the star map constantly) is kind of a bummer. I get why this is like this, but I would like options to make it less fast-travel-y.

Furthermore, I will always prefer the style of flight combat with guns that you have to line up with a lead reticle, rather than the auto-aim gimballed gun style that games like Starfield, No Man's Sky, and X4 use (yes, I know you can turn this off in X4, but then you're just gimping yourself in comparison to everyone else).

Also, I know Rebel Galaxy Outlaw technically has this too, but I played that game on Classic mode (no gimballed guns, no auto-chase function, no third-person), which is a lot of fun, even if a bit grueling at the beginning due to enemy ship agility and your low powered weapons making even breaking through shields difficult at the start.

Also, there's no trade routes in Starfield (that I know of), and even if there are, the way the game skips travel makes the idea of being a space trader, like you can be in games like Privateer, X, Freelancer, Rebel Galaxy, etc. just outright unappealing. Also, low merchant credit limits throw cold water on this concept.

That said, I find the ship customization incredibly fun to play around with, so Starfield definitely has that going for it, over most other space sims, and it's a large part of what has me hooked on the game.

I find making new ships, tweaking them, and taking them out on bounty missions (usually ending with boarding the final living enemy ship) incredibly satisfying.