Why so bad combat system in Bethesda Games (Elder Scrolls, Fallout) ?

[Abhigyan]

In Skyrim Nexus Page we can see people are crazy for souls like combat system, millions of downloads for Enemy Target locking, Dodge roll etc
It would be nice if they made this game's combat system like Remnant 2, But after watching Starfield Gameplay trailer i am sure that is not gonna happen, it will be another clunky combat system with point & shoot & after grinding for 100 hours you will be invincible.

I just play these games for story but a good combat system would make these games masterpiece like Witcher 3.

[Abhigyan]

Originally posted by Tenoshii:

If you can make the money they make by including a "bad combat system" why would they make a "good combat system"?

The reason you & I think that the combat system is working because the game world made by them is so immersive that we don't care about the combat, but after so many years BGS still did not change their combat system that is what bothering me, it looks boring for a game which i will play for 200 hours maybe more.

BGS has always bad enemy A.I. , they are d*mb, very easy to defeat them, no strategy needed.
Plus BGS have zero boss fights, all big bosses are same normal enemies with big health pool .

[Pandora's Actor]

Originally posted by Abhigyan:

In Skyrim Nexus Page we can see people are crazy for souls like combat system, millions of downloads for Enemy Target locking, Dodge roll etc
It would be nice if they made this game's combat system like Remnant 2, But after watching Starfield Gameplay trailer i am sure that is not gonna happen, it will be another clunky combat system with point & shoot & after grinding for 100 hours you will be invincible.

I just play these games for story but a good combat system would make these games masterpiece like Witcher 3.

yawn. stop forcing souls like into other games. there are mods for that just so people HAVE THE OPTION to download them. BUT bethesda wants to make the game accessible to all. This is why this game has simple combat. Although to their credit they have worked hard on making even the space combat be a bit more active instead of pew pew.

[Abhigyan]

Originally posted by Ayato Silvermane:

I don't want to have to consult a spread sheet everytime I enter battle. If I did I'd be playing a tactics game not a BGS one

Making strategy before an encounter made that battle more important because we invest our time, energy & tactics before entering the fight. No stakes in BGS because you go shooting like a crazy person.

[Abhigyan]

Originally posted by Pandora's Actor:

yawn. stop forcing souls like into other games. there are mods for that just so people HAVE THE OPTION to download them. BUT bethesda wants to make the game accessible to all. This is why this game has simple combat. Although to their credit they have worked hard on making even the space combat be a bit more active instead of pew pew.

The more challenging combat, the better it is. Casual player can just play in story mode or easy mode.
While playing fallout skyrim i play it on hard mode for challenge but the only challenge i get is resource management as the enemies take all my bullets in hard mode. This is no challenge , this is just bad enemy design

[Pandora's Actor]

Originally posted by Abhigyan:

Originally posted by Pandora's Actor:

yawn. stop forcing souls like into other games. there are mods for that just so people HAVE THE OPTION to download them. BUT bethesda wants to make the game accessible to all. This is why this game has simple combat. Although to their credit they have worked hard on making even the space combat be a bit more active instead of pew pew.

The more challenging combat, the better it is. Casual player can just play in story mode or easy mode.
While playing fallout skyrim i play it on hard mode for challenge but the only challenge i get is resource management as the enemies take all my bullets in hard mode. This is no challenge , this is just bad enemy design

good for you. but the world doesnt revolve around you. and the majority will play it at normal difficulty and they want easy to learn combat.

so stop your foolish takes. you are completely in the wrong. and i say that as someone that gladly plays at the highest difficulties and played all fromsoft souls games.

[Tenoshii]

Originally posted by Abhigyan:

The reason you & I think that the combat system is working because the game world made by them is so immersive that we don't care about the combat

It's fine if that's how you see it, but for me to say that I don't care about combat in a game like this would be immediate misinformation.

Moreover, for me immersion is simply there so that what you can do within the game environment seems reasonable based on the setting and lore. It does not distract me from the desire to engage in activities associated with a specific gameplay mechanic.

Originally posted by Abhigyan:

but after so many years BGS still did not change their combat system that is what bothering me

It doesn't surprise me that they aren't making broad sweeping changes to their combat system. They know they have an audience they don't want to lose, they aren't going to risk changing something to satisfy potentially 25% of the audience and enraging the other 75% (or whatever they think the breakdown is).

Originally posted by Abhigyan:

BGS has always bad enemy A.I. , they are d*mb, very easy to defeat them, no strategy needed.

It's not terribly difficult to outplay an AI NPC in a open world 3D game where combat is in real time and there are obstacles the player can use to control engagement with the enemy (or by using pathing cheese).

I have yet to play or see a game that really has an answer for this other than overtuning the NPC's stats or simply throwing a large quantity of enemies at the player to attempt to mitigate the player's ability to use AI pathing against the NPCs.

Then again, Bethesda doesn't make any tactical combat strategy games I'm aware of, so this doesn't really affect my ability to enjoy the combat in their games.

[kdodds]

Originally posted by Abhigyan:

Originally posted by kdodds:

Because it's not a FPS. And From titles aren't RPGs. Elden RIng was supposed to be "the Skyrim killer", yet all but fell off (maybe even fell off, I wasn't paying close attention) the top 100 played before the Summer Sale brought renewed interest from those waiting for it to finally go on sale. In another month or so it will be at the bottom of the top 100 again, or not there at all, because it's only replayability exists for niche market players. And even then, they jump off as the next From-a-like asset swap releases.

Pretty much no one who plays BGS SP RPGs wants cheesy artificial difficulty From combat. Nor do they want MP in any form. And so on. Enjoy it for what it is. I think you'll find a whole new world of enjoyment in this recreational activity opens up when you just start playing games for what they are.

Witcher 3 , Hogwarts Legacy, Kingdoms of Amalur, Dragons Dogma, Greedfall, all of these have souls like combat system with Single Player RPG mechanics. It can be easily done but BGS don't do that because their Creative Engine su*ks.

No, they really don't. It actually sounds like you've never played a Souls game from that comment. Are you just talking about dodging? Because that's what it sounds like. And, that doesn't make it "Souls-like". I mean, to call any of those games "Souls-like" is probably an affront to Souls, as well as those games. Also, dodge what? Bullets? Lasers? For real? Try Gotham Knights there Superman. Also, one might argue that Skyrim's method (actually move/jump) is more difficult than having a dodge button.

[kdodds]

Originally posted by Astronomer:

Originally posted by kdodds:

Because it's not a FPS. And From titles aren't RPGs. Elden RIng was supposed to be "the Skyrim killer", yet all but fell off (maybe even fell off, I wasn't paying close attention) the top 100 played before the Summer Sale brought renewed interest from those waiting for it to finally go on sale. In another month or so it will be at the bottom of the top 100 again, or not there at all, because it's only replayability exists for niche market players. And even then, they jump off as the next From-a-like asset swap releases.

Pretty much no one who plays BGS SP RPGs wants cheesy artificial difficulty From combat. Nor do they want MP in any form. And so on. Enjoy it for what it is. I think you'll find a whole new world of enjoyment in this recreational activity opens up when you just start playing games for what they are.

I'm sorry. Who said Elden Ring is compete with Skyrim? People have just lost their mind with this useless comparisons. It's like platform vs adventure game. I can't believe it

About Witcher 3, I want to quote OP. If you thing that Witcher 3 has a good combat system I don't know what I can say...

Anyways, I really don't understand what wrong with Stafield's CS. It's heavely improved for an rpg...

PC Gamer, GameRant, and so on... I'm sorry, where have you been? There are loooong discussions on reddit, forum boards for various platforms, etc. It's not like this is news.

I didn't like Witcher 3's combat much either, but it was better than 2.

[Abhigyan]

Originally posted by kdodds:

No, they really don't. It actually sounds like you've never played a Souls game from that comment. Are you just talking about dodging? Because that's what it sounds like. And, that doesn't make it "Souls-like". I mean, to call any of those games "Souls-like" is probably an affront to Souls, as well as those games.

Souls like is a big genre, those games i mentioned, their combat is inspired from souls game, like target locking, different enemy designs where you have to study the enemy, now they are not so hard as souls like but still fun to play but skyrim or fallout enemies are all 2 types, one type will range attack you & another type of enemy will come to you for melee attack, it gets boring after few hours. more enemy types are needed,
but seems like starfield will have same problem as the enemies are running towards the player with a knife while our player is holding a powerful gun. This breaks the immersion .

[jerrypocalypse]

I don't need/want Souls-like combat, but I would like for the MC to not become so powerful so quickly and easily in BGS games. I generally have to artificially weaken my character to maintain the difficulty. Which is partly why the FO3 style skill system was great, because I could simply opt to not increase my main skills when leveling up. Skyrim and the ES games take a little more finagling with, but at least you can opt not to put a bunch of perks into stuff in those to keep your power level down.

[Abhigyan]

Originally posted by Tenoshii:

It doesn't surprise me that they aren't making broad sweeping changes to their combat system. They know they have an audience they don't want to lose, they aren't going to risk changing something to satisfy potentially 25% of the audience and enraging the other 75% (or whatever they think the breakdown is).

Elden Ring did an experiment and their niche audience stayed plus a lot of new audience came to souls like genre. Developers should experiment, But BGS can't take the risk because their engine don't support good combat, that is the main reason. Plus their engine can't load new areas without long loading screens.
BGS is a very big company, we should compare it with Rock star or cd project red, now tell me how many loading screen you see in RDR2 GTA 5 OR W3, Cyberpunk 77 ?
ZERO (if you are not fast travelling )

[Astronomer]

Originally posted by Abhigyan:

Originally posted by Tenoshii:

If you can make the money they make by including a "bad combat system" why would they make a "good combat system"?

The reason you & I think that the combat system is working because the game world made by them is so immersive that we don't care about the combat, but after so many years BGS still did not change their combat system that is what bothering me, it looks boring for a game which i will play for 200 hours maybe more.

BGS has always bad enemy A.I. , they are d*mb, very easy to defeat them, no strategy needed.
Plus BGS have zero boss fights, all big bosses are same normal enemies with big health pool .

I get it. It's true that Bethesda's rpg are so immersive that you just forget BS. In Skyrim is just serviceable.
But, I don't understand the complains about Starfield BS tho, seems miles better to me than the previous works

[Astronomer]

Originally posted by kdodds:

Originally posted by Astronomer:

I'm sorry. Who said Elden Ring is compete with Skyrim? People have just lost their mind with this useless comparisons. It's like platform vs adventure game. I can't believe it

About Witcher 3, I want to quote OP. If you thing that Witcher 3 has a good combat system I don't know what I can say...

Anyways, I really don't understand what wrong with Stafield's CS. It's heavely improved for an rpg...

PC Gamer, GameRant, and so on... I'm sorry, where have you been? There are loooong discussions on reddit, forum boards for various platforms, etc. It's not like this is news.

I didn't like Witcher 3's combat much either, but it was better than 2.

I suggest you to read other gaming source. PC Gamer and GameRant are doing some AI generated articles lately. Expecially against anything Starfield related

[Abhigyan]

Originally posted by Astronomer:

But, I don't understand the complains about Starfield BS tho, seems miles better to me than the previous works

Because it is 8 years after BGS releasing a game, so they should study the best combat system out there for space games & imply that in Starfield,
Like ME: Andromeda is not so good game from that franchise but it has good combat system with boost & dodge mechanic, enemy types were not so diverse but much diverse than any BGS game.
Another thing that We play games in horizontal display not vertical, but BGS games always jump to avoid attacks that looks foolish, side dodges look cooler & more practical in real life & also on our displays.

[Pandora's Actor]

Originally posted by Abhigyan:

Originally posted by Astronomer:

But, I don't understand the complains about Starfield BS tho, seems miles better to me than the previous works

Because it is 8 years after BGS releasing a game, so they should study the best combat system out there for space games & imply that in Starfield,
Like ME: Andromeda is not so good game from that franchise but it has good combat system with boost & dodge mechanic, enemy types were not so diverse but much diverse than any BGS game.
Another thing that We play games in horizontal display not vertical, but BGS games always jump to avoid attacks that looks foolish, side dodges look cooler & more practical in real life & also on our displays.

god your delusional. if your that hellbend go wait and download mods for combat when they exist