file system on destop mode is complete ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥

[ThatDude]

cant find anything youre looking for unless you go watch a tutorial on how to find it in the asscrack of your system so far up there it takes ten ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ minutes to get to it just by going though files

[Mizufluffy]

Originally posted by VirtuousReincarnation:

Most people, but some are a lot.
As for the other folders in root, if I recall, etc is where SD cards go, so you'd need to use that quite a bit.
Some of the other folders possibly as well.

If you are talking about microSD cards on a Steam Deck then those are under /run/media/, for example:
/run/media/mmcblk0p1//

However, in the gaming mode you don't really need to worry about the paths and in the desktop mode Dolphin has a section for "Removable Devices" in "Places" panel where you can easily find your microSD card content without having to remember the path.

[Schorsch Wadschinken]

Originally posted by VirtuousReincarnation:

We were specifically talking about Baldur's Gate III as an example.
See your reply here:

I never was. I am definitely not looking at a sample size of one for Linux. Of course if you mention a specific game and what you say isn't really correct then I'll talk about it

Originally posted by VirtuousReincarnation:

Also, the modsettings.lsx file which is necessary for adding mods is located in AppData.
There are other games that use AppData, Documents and other folders as well.

Not many and they should never do this to begin with. This is a bad idea on Windows as well as Linux. Keep in mind this causes issues even for people who use Windows because these folders are hidden by default. But they might tell you how to find those folders, usually by entering %APPDATA% something something with the run command

So, frankly this is a case of a developer ignoring the Linux community. They tell you the path to the hidden folders for their game, but forget to do so for Linux. Is that the fault of Linux or SteamOS? I think not

Originally posted by VirtuousReincarnation:

Originally posted by Seal of Approval:

What need for console? There is zero need to use the console for most people, and certainly not on the Steam Deck. Not even for playing Non-Steam Windows games. People also generally just have no need to mess around in the root folder, that's for tinkering maybe

Most people, but some are a lot.
As for the other folders in root, if I recall, etc is where SD cards go, so you'd need to use that quite a bit.
Some of the other folders possibly as well.

No, none. Not for the SD card either, it shows up as a storage device in Dolphin

Originally posted by VirtuousReincarnation:

Not the same as on Linux.
The registry might be a Windows thing, but Linux basically has an even worse issue.

Honestly, no, it doesn't

Originally posted by VirtuousReincarnation:

Not necessarily.
You could have more simple folders that connect to the existing structure.

Elaborate? This makes no sense from what I can tell

[Hopeless Ne'er-Do-Well]

Originally posted by Mizufluffy:

Originally posted by VirtuousReincarnation:

Most people, but some are a lot.
As for the other folders in root, if I recall, etc is where SD cards go, so you'd need to use that quite a bit.
Some of the other folders possibly as well.

If you are talking about microSD cards on a Steam Deck then those are under /run/media/, for example:
/run/media/mmcblk0p1//

However, in the gaming mode you don't really need to worry about the paths and in the desktop mode Dolphin has a section for "Removable Devices" in "Places" panel where you can easily find your microSD card content without having to remember the path.

Not sure if that works for paths in programs.

Originally posted by Seal of Approval:

Originally posted by VirtuousReincarnation:

We were specifically talking about Baldur's Gate III as an example.
See your reply here:

I never was. I am definitely not looking at a sample size of one for Linux. Of course if you mention a specific game and what you say isn't really correct then I'll talk about it

We were talking about Baldur's Gate III in the reply.
Also, as far as I know, what I said wasn't incorrect.
Pak mods don't seem to work outside of AppData.

Originally posted by Seal of Approval:

Originally posted by VirtuousReincarnation:

Also, the modsettings.lsx file which is necessary for adding mods is located in AppData.
There are other games that use AppData, Documents and other folders as well.

Not many and they should never do this to begin with. This is a bad idea on Windows as well as Linux. Keep in mind this causes issues even for people who use Windows because these folders are hidden by default. But they might tell you how to find those folders, usually by entering %APPDATA% something something with the run command

So, frankly this is a case of a developer ignoring the Linux community. They tell you the path to the hidden folders for their game, but forget to do so for Linux. Is that the fault of Linux or SteamOS? I think not

Many games do use AppData for mods if I'm correct, but yes, the issue is mostly developers ignoring Linux.
Can't really blame them much though, with how unfriendly and unpopular Linux is compared to Windows.

Originally posted by Seal of Approval:

Originally posted by VirtuousReincarnation:

Most people, but some are a lot.
As for the other folders in root, if I recall, etc is where SD cards go, so you'd need to use that quite a bit.
Some of the other folders possibly as well.

No, none. Not for the SD card either, it shows up as a storage device in Dolphin

Like in my reply to the other user, if a program needs it, I think you need to go to the actual path.
This is likely even more true for Windows programs that need to be given the path to files.

Originally posted by Seal of Approval:

Originally posted by VirtuousReincarnation:

Not the same as on Linux.
The registry might be a Windows thing, but Linux basically has an even worse issue.

Honestly, no, it doesn't

It really does, but I'm getting tired of the back and forth.

Originally posted by Seal of Approval:

Originally posted by VirtuousReincarnation:

Not necessarily.
You could have more simple folders that connect to the existing structure.

Elaborate? This makes no sense from what I can tell

Basically, a layer of sorts making modifying things easy.
Perhaps some other way of combining paths.

Anyway, like I said, I'm tired of discussing this.
I don't like the saying, but I'd like to just agree to disagree at this point.

[Mizufluffy]

Originally posted by VirtuousReincarnation:

Not sure if that works for paths in programs.

Originally posted by VirtuousReincarnation:

Like in my reply to the other user, if a program needs it, I think you need to go to the actual path.
This is likely even more true for Windows programs that need to be given the path to files.

Could you please elaborate this a little bit more? I'm having trouble understanding your point. For example, what do you mean by "if a program needs it, I think you need to go to the actual path"?
- Which program specifically are we talking about here?
- Is the "it" here a file/folder path on the microSD card (for example, '/run/media/mmcblk0p1/clouds.jpg'), the microSD card itself, or something else?
- What is this "actual path" you are referring to? Could you give an example?

Let me give an example or two. In the Discover software center, available in the desktop mode, there's an app called Flatseal which can manage flatpak permissions. In this example I have a flatpak called Bottles downloaded from Discover, and in Flatseal I've given Bottles access to file system path '/run/media/mmcblk0p1' which is the path for my microSD card so the microSD would become visible when I'm using Bottles. This means that both Flatseal and Bottles recognizes that as a valid path.

Here's second example. I've also installed VLC media player through Discover. If we check the application properties for the VLC (for example, right clicking icon > Edit Application...), and go to Application tab (you should also see General, Permissions, Details tabs; very similar to how these are in Windows) then there are two lines that are important for this example: Program and Arguments.
Program: '/usr/bin/flatpak'
Arguments: 'run --branch=stable --arch=x86_64 --command=/app/bin/vlc --file-forwarding org.videolan.VLC --started-from-file @@u %U @@'

At least that's how it's on my side. What does this mean?
This means that I could, just for the sake of this example, open Konsole (the terminal application on Steam Deck), and type:

/usr/bin/flatpak run --branch=stable --arch=x86_64 --command=/app/bin/vlc --file-forwarding org.videolan.VLC --started-from-file '/run/media/mmcblk0p1/example.mp4'

and VLC media player would start playing example.mp4 video that is at the root of the microSD card (not to be confused root of the entire file system). In this example I'm giving a file path as an argument to VLC and the program recognizes the given path as a valid file that it is able to open.

And obviously I can just open the file using the GUI of the VLC: Opening the interface, in the menu 'Media > Open File...', go to removable devices (my microSD card is listed as 'primary'), and choose the file example.mp4. Like I said, using Konsole was just for the sake of the example and not needed to do the thing.

In these both examples I've used the /run/media/mmcblk0p1 path for either configuring another application or for opening a file on the microSD card.

If you are wondering what is the path to the storage device itself, its path is /dev/mmcblk0p1, and you can use command (in Konsole):

udisksctl info -b /dev/mmcblk0p1

to view information of the device (microSD card in this case). Available information shows for example the mount point of the device in question is indeed path '/run/media/mmcblk0p1'.

You can find more about command udisksctl for example in here:
https://www.thegeekdiary.com/udisksctl-command-examples-in-linux/
The summary over there describes it as "udisksctl is a command-line program that provides a powerful interface for managing storage devices on Linux systems".

To understand mounting and devices better, you could take a look at this source:
https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/3192/what-is-meant-by-mounting-a-device-in-linux

If you are feeling frustrated at Linux file system then you may want to take a look at this Reddit post from over a year ago when someone else was having similar feelings:
https://www.reddit.com/r/SteamDeck/comments/upwxgb/where_is_the_sd_card_located_in_linux/

Anyway, it is still unclear to me what you meant by those things you said in the parts I quoted from you. I'd appreciate some kind of clarification so we could be on the same page.

I'd like to let you know that although I've been reading this entire discussion about the topic (well, more or less), it's been quite active lately and I haven't read each one of your messages carefully. I'd like to also mention that I work in software engineering, and I need to use Linux on command line and without graphical interface regularly.
I've also used Windows OS majority of my life starting either from Windows 3.1 or Windows 95 through most of its major versions (98, 2000, XP, Vista, 7, 10). I'd like to think that I have at least some level of understanding of both Windows and Linux.

I'm not saying any of this to get into a heated Windows vs. Linux discussion because that's not my goal here. I'm simply trying to understand what you are trying to explain, and also providing some information of my background.

[Hopeless Ne'er-Do-Well]

Originally posted by Mizufluffy:

Originally posted by VirtuousReincarnation:

Not sure if that works for paths in programs.

Originally posted by VirtuousReincarnation:

Like in my reply to the other user, if a program needs it, I think you need to go to the actual path.
This is likely even more true for Windows programs that need to be given the path to files.

Could you please elaborate this a little bit more? I'm having trouble understanding your point. For example, what do you mean by "if a program needs it, I think you need to go to the actual path"?
- Which program specifically are we talking about here?
- Is the "it" here a file/folder path on the microSD card (for example, '/run/media/mmcblk0p1/clouds.jpg'), the microSD card itself, or something else?
- What is this "actual path" you are referring to? Could you give an example?

Originally posted by Mizufluffy:

In these both examples I've used the /run/media/mmcblk0p1 path for either configuring another application or for opening a file on the microSD card.

If you are wondering what is the path to the storage device itself, its path is /dev/mmcblk0p1, and you can use command (in Konsole):

This is what I mean.
I don't think the "Removable Devices" shortcut works for getting to locations in programs, especially in Windows programs.
You have to navigate to those full paths specifically.
Might be ways around it (creating shortcuts in paths the programs see), but it gets pretty messy, and so, it's pretty unfriendly for most users, especially those who want more from Linux.

As for specific programs, can't recall but several modding tools and some other programs.
It's been quite a bit of going back to navigating through the locations, and I've had to make shortcuts a few times (others, I've just gone through the paths).

[Schorsch Wadschinken]

Originally posted by VirtuousReincarnation:

It really does, but I'm getting tired of the back and forth.

It doesn't. And the back and forth is caused by you always being vague about every issue you seemingly have

The best guess I have now is that you are annoyed that you couldn't find the folder for mods in Baldur's Gate 3, despite the fact that the developers made an awful decision to force mods on Windows into a hidden folder that also clogs up your system drive because it's always on the C: drive. They then give you guidance on how to find said hidden folder using the Windows Run shortcut and entering a specific command to access these folders. They didn't do the same for Linux. And you're putting the blame on Linux for it? With no guides, no Windows user is going to figure this out for themselves either

No, most games don't require official mod support to use AppData folders. It's an idiotic idea as I've explained multiple times

Originally posted by VirtuousReincarnation:

This is what I mean.
I don't think the "Removable Devices" shortcut works for getting to locations in programs, especially in Windows programs.
You have to navigate to those full paths specifically.
Might be ways around it (creating shortcuts in paths the programs see), but it gets pretty messy, and so, it's pretty unfriendly for most users, especially those who want more from Linux.

As for specific programs, can't recall but several modding tools and some other programs.
It's been quite a bit of going back to navigating through the locations, and I've had to make shortcuts a few times (others, I've just gone through the paths).

First of all, running Windows software in Linux is what I'd call advanced. Valve sets it up for you if it's a game downloaded from Steam of course, but beyond that, this is not meant for casual users. Do you think running Linux software on Windows is easy? Do you think that doesn't require Powershell and finding paths in the Linux file system?

But secondly, I don't understand what your issue is? In Windows I also have to navigate to paths to get the file location and insert it in a program that needs it. What is the trouble you're having?

[Mizufluffy]

Originally posted by VirtuousReincarnation:

This is what I mean.
I don't think the "Removable Devices" shortcut works for getting to locations in programs, especially in Windows programs.
You have to navigate to those full paths specifically.
Might be ways around it (creating shortcuts in paths the programs see), but it gets pretty messy, and so, it's pretty unfriendly for most users, especially those who want more from Linux.

As for specific programs, can't recall but several modding tools and some other programs.
It's been quite a bit of going back to navigating through the locations, and I've had to make shortcuts a few times (others, I've just gone through the paths).

I'm still trying to understand what you mean here. Are you talking about the paths that Steam creates for Proton compatible Windows games?

For example, let's say we have The Legend of Heroes: Trails from Zero installed on a microSD card. If we go to the game in the Library and Manage > Browse local files then we open a path such as this:
/run/media/mmcblk0p1/steamapps/common/The Legend of Heroes Trails from Zero/

According to the system requirements of the game on the store page it requires Windows 8.1 (minimum) or Windows 10/11 (recommended) so we should be able to call it "a Windows program", right?

Steam keeps its proton-related files in the compatdata folder, and we can find out the ID for the game in the example: 1668510. In other words the Proton files for the game in the example are in:
/run/media/mmcblk0p1/steamapps/compatdata/1668510/

Some Windows programs likes to keep things like settings or save game files under the user's Windows home folder, and in the case of this example those can be found in here:
/run/media/mmcblk0p1/steamapps/compatdata/1668510/pfx/drive_c/users/steamuser/Saved Games/Falcom/Zero/

Are those the kind of "navigate to full paths" you are referring to?

Also, are you referring to users (people) to navigate those paths or wondering how programs (games, etc.) can find files in those paths?

I was talking about an app called Bottles before. I sometimes use it to install patches, that are available for example at publisher's own website, to games in my Steam Library. It can run .exe files (well, most of the time, there have been some exceptions), and launch the installer that's meant for Windows. In the installer, when selecting where to install, it shows folder structure as it would in Windows ("Desktop", "Documents", "My Computer", "C:", "D:", "E:", "Z:"). Bottles basically keeps a similar structure as Steam does in /compatdata/.

So, what if I have a Steam game installed on my microSD card (/run/media/mmcblk0p1/steamapps/common/<game_title>) and would like to use Bottles to install a patch to a game? The patch installer is tricked to believe that it's installing it under path:
E:\steamapps\common\<game_title>

Based on this Windows programs may simple see the microSD card path as its own drive. Also, in this example I could also follow the path in "Z: drive",
Z:\run\media\mmcblk0p1\steamapps\common\<game_title>

Keep in mind that those are simply how a Windows program may see them, Linux doesn't actually have drives.

So, the way an user such as you or me sees these paths may differ from how a program understands them. If you have trouble navigating through long paths then you can add the ones you frequently need as shortcuts to "Places" in Dolphin (right click target folder and "Add to Places"). It's no different from how you can do the same thing in Windows.

You can also create shortcuts in Dolphin by either right clicking or through the menu: "Create New > Link to File or Directory...". Then you give the shortcut a name and a path (path can be pasted in the field or browsed through Dolphin's "Open File" or "Select Folder" options).

Originally posted by VirtuousReincarnation:

Might be ways around it (creating shortcuts in paths the programs see), but it gets pretty messy, and so, it's pretty unfriendly for most users, especially those who want more from Linux.

This part is still hard to understand.
Exactly what kind of shortcut you would want to create? Is it a file? A folder? What is the exact path? What do you mean by "in paths the programs see" in this instance? Do you have a proper example or use case?

Do you mean that creating shortcuts gets messy? Isn't that the same in any OS? If you have five hundred shortcuts to different locations then finding the correct shortcut may take as much time as just navigating to the location normally, and if you just sorting those shortcuts in folder structure then it's really no different from having the actual files in those folders. Unless I'm misunderstanding you here, I don't think it's worse for Linux than it is for Windows.

Those who want more from Linux? May I ask what do they want from Linux then? What is this "more", care to explain a bit more in detail? Do they want to write bash scripts, start running a web server, or what? Or do they just want to sit down and play games?

Perhaps I'm a little bit slow to understand what you are trying to explain but I'd really appreciate it if you could explain it in so simple terms that anyone could understand what you are talking about.

[Hopeless Ne'er-Do-Well]

Originally posted by Seal of Approval:

Originally posted by VirtuousReincarnation:

It really does, but I'm getting tired of the back and forth.

It doesn't. And the back and forth is caused by you always being vague about every issue you seemingly have

The best guess I have now is that you are annoyed that you couldn't find the folder for mods in Baldur's Gate 3, despite the fact that the developers made an awful decision to force mods on Windows into a hidden folder that also clogs up your system drive because it's always on the C: drive. They then give you guidance on how to find said hidden folder using the Windows Run shortcut and entering a specific command to access these folders. They didn't do the same for Linux. And you're putting the blame on Linux for it? With no guides, no Windows user is going to figure this out for themselves either

No, most games don't require official mod support to use AppData folders. It's an idiotic idea as I've explained multiple times

Originally posted by VirtuousReincarnation:

This is what I mean.
I don't think the "Removable Devices" shortcut works for getting to locations in programs, especially in Windows programs.
You have to navigate to those full paths specifically.
Might be ways around it (creating shortcuts in paths the programs see), but it gets pretty messy, and so, it's pretty unfriendly for most users, especially those who want more from Linux.

As for specific programs, can't recall but several modding tools and some other programs.
It's been quite a bit of going back to navigating through the locations, and I've had to make shortcuts a few times (others, I've just gone through the paths).

First of all, running Windows software in Linux is what I'd call advanced. Valve sets it up for you if it's a game downloaded from Steam of course, but beyond that, this is not meant for casual users. Do you think running Linux software on Windows is easy? Do you think that doesn't require Powershell and finding paths in the Linux file system?

But secondly, I don't understand what your issue is? In Windows I also have to navigate to paths to get the file location and insert it in a program that needs it. What is the trouble you're having?

I told you I'm getting tired of this and asked you to agree to disagree, but you keep going.
I'm not going to reply to you about this topic.

Originally posted by Mizufluffy:

Originally posted by VirtuousReincarnation:

This is what I mean.
I don't think the "Removable Devices" shortcut works for getting to locations in programs, especially in Windows programs.
You have to navigate to those full paths specifically.
Might be ways around it (creating shortcuts in paths the programs see), but it gets pretty messy, and so, it's pretty unfriendly for most users, especially those who want more from Linux.

As for specific programs, can't recall but several modding tools and some other programs.
It's been quite a bit of going back to navigating through the locations, and I've had to make shortcuts a few times (others, I've just gone through the paths).

I'm still trying to understand what you mean here. Are you talking about the paths that Steam creates for Proton compatible Windows games?

For example, let's say we have The Legend of Heroes: Trails from Zero installed on a microSD card. If we go to the game in the Library and Manage > Browse local files then we open a path such as this:
/run/media/mmcblk0p1/steamapps/common/The Legend of Heroes Trails from Zero/

According to the system requirements of the game on the store page it requires Windows 8.1 (minimum) or Windows 10/11 (recommended) so we should be able to call it "a Windows program", right?

Steam keeps its proton-related files in the compatdata folder, and we can find out the ID for the game in the example: 1668510. In other words the Proton files for the game in the example are in:
/run/media/mmcblk0p1/steamapps/compatdata/1668510/

Some Windows programs likes to keep things like settings or save game files under the user's Windows home folder, and in the case of this example those can be found in here:
/run/media/mmcblk0p1/steamapps/compatdata/1668510/pfx/drive_c/users/steamuser/Saved Games/Falcom/Zero/

Are those the kind of "navigate to full paths" you are referring to?

Also, are you referring to users (people) to navigate those paths or wondering how programs (games, etc.) can find files in those paths?

I was talking about an app called Bottles before. I sometimes use it to install patches, that are available for example at publisher's own website, to games in my Steam Library. It can run .exe files (well, most of the time, there have been some exceptions), and launch the installer that's meant for Windows. In the installer, when selecting where to install, it shows folder structure as it would in Windows ("Desktop", "Documents", "My Computer", "C:", "D:", "E:", "Z:"). Bottles basically keeps a similar structure as Steam does in /compatdata/.

So, what if I have a Steam game installed on my microSD card (/run/media/mmcblk0p1/steamapps/common/<game_title>) and would like to use Bottles to install a patch to a game? The patch installer is tricked to believe that it's installing it under path:
E:\steamapps\common\<game_title>

Based on this Windows programs may simple see the microSD card path as its own drive. Also, in this example I could also follow the path in "Z: drive",
Z:\run\media\mmcblk0p1\steamapps\common\<game_title>

Keep in mind that those are simply how a Windows program may see them, Linux doesn't actually have drives.

So, the way an user such as you or me sees these paths may differ from how a program understands them. If you have trouble navigating through long paths then you can add the ones you frequently need as shortcuts to "Places" in Dolphin (right click target folder and "Add to Places"). It's no different from how you can do the same thing in Windows.

You can also create shortcuts in Dolphin by either right clicking or through the menu: "Create New > Link to File or Directory...". Then you give the shortcut a name and a path (path can be pasted in the field or browsed through Dolphin's "Open File" or "Select Folder" options).

Originally posted by VirtuousReincarnation:

Might be ways around it (creating shortcuts in paths the programs see), but it gets pretty messy, and so, it's pretty unfriendly for most users, especially those who want more from Linux.

This part is still hard to understand.
Exactly what kind of shortcut you would want to create? Is it a file? A folder? What is the exact path? What do you mean by "in paths the programs see" in this instance? Do you have a proper example or use case?

Do you mean that creating shortcuts gets messy? Isn't that the same in any OS? If you have five hundred shortcuts to different locations then finding the correct shortcut may take as much time as just navigating to the location normally, and if you just sorting those shortcuts in folder structure then it's really no different from having the actual files in those folders. Unless I'm misunderstanding you here, I don't think it's worse for Linux than it is for Windows.

Those who want more from Linux? May I ask what do they want from Linux then? What is this "more", care to explain a bit more in detail? Do they want to write bash scripts, start running a web server, or what? Or do they just want to sit down and play games?

Perhaps I'm a little bit slow to understand what you are trying to explain but I'd really appreciate it if you could explain it in so simple terms that anyone could understand what you are talking about.

Folder paths aren't as intuitive or simple in Linux compared to those of Windows.
That's all I'm going to say about this.

[Schorsch Wadschinken]

I have a feeling you're very disingenuous about all this

[Hopeless Ne'er-Do-Well]

Originally posted by Seal of Approval:

I have a feeling you're very disingenuous about all this

Not at all.

[Schorsch Wadschinken]

Claiming that a game forcing mods into a hidden Windows folder and giving instructions on a website using the run command is intuitive, and blaming Linux for the fact that the developers didn't give instructions for other platforms, and on top of the fact that it's a Windows game using the Proton/Wine structure, yeah, I call that disingenuous. This is very disingenuous

[Hopeless Ne'er-Do-Well]

Originally posted by Seal of Approval:

Claiming that a game forcing mods into a hidden Windows folder and giving instructions on a website using the run command is intuitive, and blaming Linux for the fact that the developers didn't give instructions for other platforms, and on top of the fact that it's a Windows game using the Proton/Wine structure, yeah, I call that disingenuous. This is very disingenuous

I'm not, and what I said isn't what you're saying.
Anyway, like I said, I don't want to keep discussing this.

[Schorsch Wadschinken]

Yeah, you were being extremely vague, as I mentioned multiple times and asked you to clarify. But after all clarifications it seems that you're saying the hidden AppData folders are totally intuitive compared to Linux folders, but the use case you're comparing is installing Baldur's Gate 3 mods. But no, AppData is not a typical mod folder, and a casual Windows user, a newbie even, would not be able to install Baldur's Gate 3 mods without instructions either.

Then there was also a bit about Windows software under Linux running using Proton being not intuitive when it comes to file paths. But you're running Windows software under Linux and I think that's hardly a fair comparison to running native Windows software under Windows

Yes, it's woozy, but it's the best I can make of it

[WarnerCK]

Originally posted by Seal of Approval:

Yes, it's woozy, but it's the best I can make of it

They did also claim that applications like Synaptic or Muon don't exist, and can't exist, because Linux is just so gosh-darn difficult, of course.