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I honestly don't know what the hundreds of star citizen coders do there all day long since 2009 or something and still haven't release .zshit, cause they suck at making games, but hey why not, lots of idiots with money... and here's one guy with talent and right ideas (SP, hard core, servicable graphics, gameplay, etc...)
lol that's some real salt, its complex, basically the original 2012 design had to be thrown out in 2015 cos they got to much money to make such a simple game, so it was re-designed from scratch in 2015, which what lead to the super long 3.0 cos the 3.0 released was a 1.0 of the 2015 design rather then the 2.x preceding it was a 2.x of the original design, also why 4.0 is so long coming cos basically 3.x is in actualty 1.x and the 3.1x is like 2.x so 4.0 will actually be the real 3.x of the 2015 design.
Basically except for concept art nearly everything prior to 2015 was thrown out, and given even tf2 was 12 years in dev its hardly a surprise such an ambitious title has spent 8 years in dev with prob nother couple to go, people get thrown by the concept of dev starting in 2012 not realising the original period was working on another game that was basically scrapped due to being a victim of its own success.
It has like well hard to tell exactly but prolly around 70 coders, the rest are artists, most of the coders are the former cryengine engine team and spend time working on the underlying graphics engine and physics as well as underlying networking, all things the original 2012 design didnt touch, sb2 is built on ue4/5 cant tell exactly off hand but as a result never had to touch that side of it, by using someone elses engine its like adding the entire staff the engine to your own project, its not that you dont have to pay them its just you only have to pay them after release as they steal a % of ur profits.
SC is like one of the original games that basically had their own graphics engine as their version is so modified its nicknames starengine, its also mp whilst sb2 is sp which immediately helps allot, sc when its finished will be a fantastic game, its worth noting whats released to the public isnt the majority of what they're working on its more like a taster of what they working on to keep the public happy whilst they work on what they actually working on but it is a snapshot of it, and as theres major features left to release they never bother polishing it because well its just a waste of time every time you put in new features your gonna break everything again anytime.
People keep going on about cr being a scammer but if its in his best interest no matter his motivation to release, simply put the standard industry estimate is that only about 5-10% of your expected customer base is willing to pre-fund a game, so well with the amount he's got in pre-funding that means he stands to make billions at release, so its a no brainer to work towards it as who doesnt like billions?
Still, this forum is for sb2 prob not best to put your sc salt into it, sb2 is more like the original 2012 sc design only sp only mixed with a bit of x4, its a fun game pushing modern solo deving to the limit using an advanced 3d general purpose engine, high quality middleware and so on, as game dev myself I see the potential in the model, but until recently it simply wasnt possible to come up with such an ambitious project solo, the rise of the the likes of the modern unreal and unity engines and their marketplace/asset store have allowed solo and small teams to realise concepts previously impossible on that scale, but it is worth noting whilst 1 guy made it its not like your playing the result of 1 guys efforts, in order for you to be able to play it every unreal engine dev and middleware dev had to be added to mix so if you think about it your actually playing the results of hundreds of peoples efforts.
I can answer that easily. The Roberts family has 3 people employed in top end staff and have controlling say in the project effectively. They literally makes millions per year working on the game. That's guaranteed money for them, straight for them.
The game, if it was to release 3 years from now, would flop. This is because the majority of supporters are in love with what the game "will be" and not what the game is. Even those that like what the game is are expecting much more and would be upset at a current release.
This is so prevalent that basically any discussion of the game will end in "the tech is not in yet" and that has become a meme. Ship combat (flight rework, physicalized damage, armor, component rework, weapon rework), FPS combat (AI rework), overall game loop (server meshing, death of a spaceman, insurance rework, housing/homesteads, etc), hell even ships people have already bought and are unfinished (bounty hunting, hacking, exploration, scanning, drones, salvage, etc).
So you'll have a conversation, start pointing out where loops fail/break, and then people will point you to something like those above mentioned future changes as something that's gonna be the magic bullet to fix a loop or make something fun.
The Star Citizen the average fan/investor pays for isn't even the one that exists, it's the one that they dream of in their head they think the game will one day be. The reality is rather drab and unexciting to them by comparison.
So yes, its in their best interest to keep Star Citizen in development as long as possible and never release.
and all of these systems are being iterated on, one major issue is the average person outside of the industry does not realise how game dev normally works, normally speaking games are completely unplayable until the final stages of the project outside of a few tiny vertical slices made for demos at conferences, infact most games arent even announced until their dev is 90% complete, precisesly because theres nothing to see before then, in many ways maintaining the release has distracted from the actual development of SC rather then been integral to it, sure it has let them test systems that normally wouldnt be tested till much later and receive feedback, but maintaining and bug fixing has entirely detracted from regular dev.
however as their funding comes direct from players and they need a constant influx of money to continue dev they have had to maintain the live universe, which whilst slowing down dev overall has at least allow them to stress test things a little better and continue to get the funding they need to complete, most folks seem to think live is star citizen when its more like just a slice of it,
Normally in a game you spend allot of time working on individual systems and only right at the end do they get spliced together into a game, tbh considering the scale of ambition on this project i think theyre actually doing quite well time wise with dev, some of their more complex features would be the basis of entire games in a normal project, normally no publisher would allow any game company to try to make so many new systems at once for a single project.
Evaluating a unfinished loop is a little pointless in the first place, theres just no point trying to review an unfinished product, especially as most of the people doing the reviewing are just trolls in first place xD, but ultimately SC's funding model has stood the test of time so it continues to work towards release, SC puts out a vast amount of info about dev that if you take the time to consume points towards its actual state of dev, but most people are incapable of doing so but have plenty of opinions on it nonethless xD
I dont think you'll ever see anything quite like SC again in our lifetimes, but I do think the finished product will banish the naysayers into the wrong side of history as well its shaping up pretty well, just a few more years funding and itll really be time to shine.
Having said that I do think in future more lone and small team devs will be working on projects like SB2 as we've now reached a new paradime of whats possible for a lone dev, allowing more enthusiastic devs to reach broader audiences with greater ambition, tbh I got my own concept space game im working on to, which is also in the same vein, though im pouring more effort into the simulation side, im just currently working on some of the heady technical issues the sb2 developer basically skipped with his product, like making full size spherical procedural planets.
Alas anything to do with spherical procedural planets makes everything else exponentially more complex as pretty much all middleware is not designed for it, requiring a considerable outpouring of effort to realise, im also trying to push both on and off-screen sim counts to unseen before levels leveraging the latest tech, some of the stuff im doing only exists in the form of papers, and some dont even have that much, but its nice to push the envelope once in a while.
However the potential sb2 has shown is only a good thing from my point of view, it shows if you make something fun the people come even with a lone dev, and so the market is there, and obv i love space games so enjoy playing it.
The highest paid video game exec right now is Andrew Wilson in Electronic Arts making 34 million a year. So basically just by doing what they're doing right now the Roberts family are in the top 50 highest earning video game executives. (they'd be somewhere around the middle of the top 50)
So im afraid your reply there is utter toss in regards to taht.
I quite literally work video game QA for a living. Have for many years. My view on Star Citizen is WORSE because of that experience and knowledge, not better, and im quite well informed on the project. If you put an actual competent company in charge that game would release in about 3 years from now. With CIG it'll still have no ETA in 5. At current rate I think server meshing + pyro + salvaging + a few minor odds and ends is going to take them 3 years alone. And with the rest of the work they have on the table (look at my post above) being at least 5 years...its still a pipe dream.
That's nonsense, MMOs do it all the time. Star citizen just has no clue what a minimum viable product is or core deisgn philosophy. It's a failure in project management. They have talented people working there, they have the money, they have the manpower, but they waste it and go in circles constantly.
They're pretty much the poster child for why Publishers exist. The argument players (in their lack of knowledge) have against publishers is that they force projects out early and that they force monetization. But Star Citizen is doing a great job of showing that the monetization has nothing to do with the publishers but is done by both sides, and that without someone to play mommy and make you deliver your homework...some devs just never finish.
That's not to say that every dev needs a publisher. But they have a clear and effective role to play.
Fair, but you also get no credit for unfinished work. Or re-work. or re-re-rework. SC is a 10+ year in dev nothing burger with no ETA of when the burger will exist.
The young think that a decade is the test of time. A decade is a drop in the bucket. Loot boxes are already starting to be regulated when a decade in you could have said they "stood the test of time". Most likely scenario is that the Star citizen funding model is going to be illegal in like 50 years. But the law moves very slow.
It's not that you won't be able to monetize development, but there will prolly put guidelines in place and the impetus for this will be Star Citizen itself and preventing another of those from happening.
Such is how it always is. Law is slow, but it catches up eventually. And thank goodness or we'd still be back in the days of the ole bill gates and steve jobs "perma temp" hires where you'd be hired as a temporary worker to do the same job as the full paid guy with promise you'd be hired one day.....and they'd keep you employed like that indefinitely. They got away with that for many years. 10 years is a drop in the bucket :P.
Spacebourne 2 is prolly going to be the first real game to give competition to the genre in a long time. ED has been too insistent on killing itself. This has basically left Star Citizen as the only real game in that area. And despite being single player SB 2 covers all the same loops and most of the more developed ironically despite SC having a 5+ year head start and infinitely more resources.
SC needs the competition so it can stop doing the bare minimum simply because its only competitor decided to commit sudoku lol.
Fortunately thats the state x4 is in now, ed alas was from the beginning a mile wide and an inch deep, whilst x4 is an inch wide and a mile deep, in ed, the gameplay loops are just to repetitive its basically a korean grind em up in space, and they're funding model alas has lead to their current issue, because they dont do much in the way of crowdfunding they dont have the money to make an fps mode integral to the game so they had to do it via a targeted paid DLC but this has basically turned ed into two different games neither really meeting its potential.
Whilst I wouldnt say im old I am in the late 30s so wouldnt say im fresh of the boat either, sure 10 years doesnt mean forever but its pretty decent in game development terms, in the old days that would be considered a console lifecycle.
As for billions however, quite allot of companies have made games with billions in rev, especially if you consider the mobile market, and ultimately GTA V is not the best example, ultimately its a very successful single player game with a taped on mp mode which helped extend the tale of the sp sales, its not a real online game so hasnt really enjoyed the kind of revenue stream one can get from service games, it only way to earn money from MP is sales of currency which lets face it is somewhat invalided by the hordes of script-kiddies wondering about its servers, utilizing the somewhat vast flaws in its code to generate free cash for anyone who wants it, and the fact they never re-wrote it shows how unimportant they judged this loss to be, gta online was all about extending the sales for their sp title and thats it, they dont really care as long as it continues to do so.
With 6 bill rev they could have if it was something they planned to monetise redesigned gta online from scratch many many times over and still not made a dent in their profits, they didnt because it was never considered an income source.
The law has little place in crowdfunding space however, ultimately if it were crowdfunding would disappear entirely, and that would deny its potential ultimately if you pay money to a crowdfunded game your ultimately funding its potential dev in return for a lower price, but have to bear in mind their are no free lunchs and the downside is even experienced devs have failed projects, and crowdfunding projects are especially prone to failure.
Still no one forced anyone to do so, anyone with a brain knew what it meant, so if someones complaining about it, its probably a matter of intellect rather then anything else, tbh with the dev process alone has been entertaining enough to pay for the original ticket price of SC with the vast amount of info put out, frankly some of it quite useful to those in the games industry or anyone with an interest, nowadays you could spend more on artisan coffees in a week, even with once a day xD.
CR isnt an exec he's a company founder, different ballpark, for sc debating is largely pointless, only the future can tell which of us is proved right, and theres enough debate on the interwebs to tie us to the nearest star a few hundred times at least if you printed it all out and unleashed it xD
Though we can both agree sb2 is a refreshing breath of fresh air in the space game genre.
Key points.
Yes GTA 5 is the most profitable game ever, via shark cards, aka micro transactions.
Fallout 4 made over 750,000,000.00 / 750 million on launch day, largely because of Skyrim, the most profitable game ever legit, by far. Skyrim has been released over 9 times including VR editions etc etc etc. then has the best store of its kind in the industry, the out of game no strings attached CC store. That number is correct Skyrim has been released over 9 times, so far.
SC does rely on never being done as some have pointed out, but its video game home entertainment and a place for competition and creativity and fun and free market, and is an importanrt lesson of some sort, and some things have to play out.
There are alot of really bad things online and people being taken advantage of and bullied, and video games can easily avoid any of that and still be free market and fun and everything, especially offline games which have far more potential and can easily compete.
Yeah I'm not trying to diss X4 here. But the combination of releasing pretty buggy and now being 5 years old and having nearly no marketing has left it in a fairly non-competitive state when it comes to mass market appeal.
Then on top of that it has a pretty high learning curve and doesn't have a cultish following like another game to nursemaid people over that learning curve. And as many mistakes as
Star Citizen makes, they get marketing every time they fart. The entire game industry knows that game exists and alot of people eventually get curious. Prolly 10% of the amount even know X4 exists.
ironically the one of the most dangerous things about Star Citizen's long development isn't even expectations. Its the fact the game takes a long time to play. Prolly 30 minutes from login to feasible mission start. Have a 30k or one of many other issues and that's an 1 hour of time just to do a single mission.
What does that have to do with dev time? People get older. As I'm sure you're well aware alot of gamers grow up, get kids, get committed jobs, etc and they simple stop ahving time for intensive games like MMO grinds or Star Citizen. You basically start "aging out" of some games and start playing shorter games. And while older (later 30s myself) exceptions like me exist...my friend list is a graveyard of people who we all used to play together and now they barely have time for a few rounds of some FPS.
By the time that Star Citizen releases half its backers prolly won't have time to play it anymore lol.
The mobile market is its own beast and I would NEVER co-mingle a conversation between console/pc and mobile market in terms of expectations. As far as billion dollar companies, there are less than 10 and most of those in the top 10 make it BECAUSE of mobile + their status as a megacorp. For example Activision Blizzard sits at 7.52 billion a year, King is 25% of that on its own thanks primarily to candy crush. And the rest is split between MANY game titles.
Much like I would never co-mingle pc/console with mobile, I'd never co-mingle single game revenues or the wages of someone working on a single game vs megacorp revenues and their executives. They are VERY different things...ot the point I'd say that conflating them is pretty disingenuous.
It's be like saying "well my solo coffee shop location makes X" and then someone else being like "well my global franchise makes Y". Not the same thing.
Statements like this are how you spot people who waste money trying to justify the money they throw away lol. Not to menton the level of spoilt and entitlement present in the assumption of artisan coffee "only once a week!" when your average employee in the country is drinking some knockoff folgers provided by their job.
The tech sector is getting increasingly out of touch with the rest of the country lol.
Aye, giving competition to a genre that badly needed it.
I think SC has already been shoulder charged a few times by other games, and this is just another example. Is this better? Not really, because each game brings something different (skills, gameplay, player-base, missions, etc.), so it depends on what you like. As previously mentioned, the initial features of SC are now common in today's titles, so I think SC's slow/buggy development & management is its TRUE killer.
I like all my space games, but lately I've still enjoyed NMS more than the others. The amount of content in that game is just crazy.
It's a scam on the worst days and a tech demo on the best days. I'd recommend staying as far away from it as humanly possible until it's actually finished. If that ever happens that is.
X4 Foundations/Kingdoms End is one of my favorite games and until difficulty setting gets added to SpaceBourne2 I will have to put X4 above SpaceBourne2.
NO! This is a Indie game that i really need to state is not directly bad. But it is not even close to star citizen max 1-5%
It is certantly NOT a realistic, good looking, life like game even by far.... The planets are empty and lame. The cities and areas look like they were made by a developer that is totally new at designing and building out levels. Nothing screams new gen, complete or even pretty.
This is more like a hobby project game that you play because you like to support the dev/devs, and if you need a game that is not going to burn up your PC.
For this to be close to any of those new space games, this game need a studio to dip this game in a barrel of makeup. And also rebuild the UI and almost everything related to gameplay mechanics. If you are looking for a game that will be almost as good as starfield or star citizen, then this is NOT the game for you. Everspace, Elite: Dangerous or X4: Foundations is games i would rather look to looooooong before this game!
SC (Star Citizen) is a clunky buggy huge mess. I tried to give SC a chance, but there are so many things wrong with it I cannot stand it. The idea and plan for SC is very impressive, it is very impressive what they tried or are trying to do however, SC has a very long way to go given how broken it is. (In SC, I spent more time getting killed by the bugs and technical problems than anything and way to many problems to even enjoy it.)
THis is not a review for SC... So.. SpaceBourne 2 has huge potential! I love it even in the unfinished state it is.
I hope Spacebourne 2 can get finished and fully polished (Soldier combat needs serious TLC) but it is great!
Conclusion: Spacebourne 2 is great, if it gets finished/polished and the content gets filled out, it will be amazing!!!!