Heavy builds have absolutely no upside in this game

[dhoma[FR]]

If you play heavy, you're gonna have a bad time.

Everything in this game is about going fast and comboing.
If you want to play heavy build with slow weapon, then the game will ask kindly to go ♥♥♥♥ yourself.
What's the point to even put heavy weapon in this game ?

Upside of heavy weapon :
- a little bit more of stagger, but you're so slow that you will have more stagger if you play fast hit weapon
- some more damage, but you're so slow that 1 hit with very slow weapon will still be far less than 2 or 3 hit with fast weapon

Downside :
- no poise, only very few hit have a bit of poise, you will need to spam fable art but you don't have infinite fable, you will be stunned a lot, and I mean A LOT
- slow, i know, it's a slow heavy weapon, but on this game where everything is about dodge, parry, and fast moving, a slow ass weapon with no animation cancel is just totaly useless, because you will be locked in your animations and get stuffed
- not that much damage reduction, slow heavy build tends to have lot of armor, hp and poise. In lies of p, you just can't, because ♥♥♥♥ you i guess ?
- low stamina regen, again, on a fast spamming game, you will not be able to do ♥♥♥♥
- low dps, with so many ennemies that have a sreaking lot of hp, it's really a problem that heaviest weapon on this game have so little dps

By going heavy, you will achieve nothing but nerf yourself and makes the game a lot harder for absolutely nothing.
Why did the dev ever bothered to put theese weapons/handle in the first place ? they are trash and unplayable.
In this game, you NEED fast handle/weapon with whatever you are building (mobility, tech and prog have all fast handle).

I'm a bit sad about that because I like heavy ass builds with insane DPS/stagger/poise but in lies of P you just can't, but there are such weapons/handles in the game, but they are useless...

[Jakob]

Bro hang in there, heavy weapons are totally viable and immensely satisfying once you get used to it. I also love to be a big strength boy in these games.

One other upside is they have very strong guard; something like 70-80% damage reduction on block.

I did a full playthrough with Puppet Axe, and one with the Frozen Feast and had so much fun. Keep practicing and be patient with your punishes. Soon you will have bosses like King of Puppets screaming to the devs for your nerf.

[dhoma[FR]]

引用自 Jakob：

Bro hang in there, heavy weapons are totally viable and immensely satisfying once you get used to it. I also love to be a big strength boy in these games.

One other upside is they have very strong guard; something like 70-80% damage reduction on block.

I did a full playthrough with Puppet Axe, and one with the Frozen Feast and had so much fun. Keep practicing and be patient with your punishes. Soon you will have bosses like King of Puppets screaming to the devs for your nerf.

I'm glad we agree.

First, you can have 65/70%+ with mobility weapon on fast handle, the mjolnir hammer on the krat mass handle is crazy good. So again, no befenits for heavy setup.

Then you say this, you have to train, practice, need to get used to it.
Why bother when they are so many set ups that are straight better and way more natural to handle ?

I'm not saying heavy setup are unplayable, just useless, by going heavy, you have no upside, of course you can finish the game and kill things with it, but it's a straight nerf to yourself vs any other playstyle.

EDIT : I used the puppet axe a lot too, it's very good... on a fast handle like the sabre or the fire axe.

[Jakob]

Yes maybe you are right you know, because when I switched to faster weapons the game felt easier. But maybe it was because I had more experience in general. Hmm.

Anyway, the big weapons will always be fun and badass to me, even if not 'the best'. To talk specifically, have you tried the Frozen Feast? That was one of my easiest play-throughs once I got used to the crazy slow moves. Bosses were flattened in ~20 seconds and I felt like a beast! You can buff it with Grindstone too.

Another shoutout I give to the Noblesse Oblige! Devastating weapon, with I think the most damaging move in the game as a Fable attack.

Maybe we can do a challenge to people on here. Pick any weapon and we see who can kill Nameless Puppet in the quickest time? Maybe character Level 120?

[Astori Heichalot]

Dancer Curved Sword, big weapon, good as it is, default blade & handle so good.
Charged attack moves forward and normal attack fast enough for big weapon
Either full Technique built or Quality

Big Pipe Wrench, default blade & handle
wait, hear me out please
unlock P-organ that increase Fable ATK & Increase Fable bar
that wrench handle art: Payback Swing
IF you use it AFTER any normal block, this does crazy damage
no need Perfect Guard, just normal guard works
note that the ability for you to retaliate a quick high damage attack just after any guard, is a versatile move
Full Motivity build

[Giganx]

During punish windows bosses will generally let you take one or two swings before retaliating. With a faster weapon those swings are weaker and have less stagger than with a heavy weapon.

Still, with a fast weapon you can sometimes create punish windows where they wouldn't normally exist.

Both work fine, it just depends on your style. If you're the patient type who waits to create real openings a heavy weapon will be much more bang for your patience. If you're someone who's trying to swing back after every successful parry you'll probably have more luck with a faster weapon.

[Bottom Frag]

My big bonk build begs to differ

[Jakob]

引用自 Big Bottom Frag：

My big bonk build begs to differ

Those thunderous full-charged heavies... ooopf, juicy!

[Rena Ichigawa]

Big wrench go bonk. Almost every boss first tried, other than puppet king, and the church boss after obtaining the wrench.

[Mako]

I've played with every weapon class and I think you're wrong.
Heavy weapons have a lot better block on average. Usually 70% instead of light-medium's 40-50%. This translates to nearly double damage reduction. NP swords is the only fast weapon with comparable block.
Also, its not a little bit more stagger. Charged attack from a heavy weapon have so much more stagger its possiblle to stun a shovel bot 2-3 times in a row making the fight competely one sided.
Lower dps is not a thing. Lower stamina regen is not a thing. Its the same within same equipment load class, just invest a bit in capacity stat.
Heavy weapons tend to have much better range, especiallly on charged and running attacks. By properly utilizing this you turn some elites and even boss fights into a joke.
No poise and slow swing simply means you need to adapt and change your approach.

[Poyzo]

Heavy weapons have the most guard, thus making regular guard that much better. If you aren't good at dodging or parrying, then a heavy weapon may be for you.

[awanderingswordsman]

You can get way more staggers with heavy weapons. That adds up. I think it especially scales well because theres a lot of p-organ upgrades that help it like reduced damage while charging and lowered charge attack consumption and fable recharge on fatal attack. Also don't forget that running heavy attack is a unique attack. It can be very good for some weapons as a fast burst option.

[zab]

lots of stagger

[IronBanana]

引用自 dhomaFR：

If you play heavy, you're gonna have a bad time.

Everything in this game is about going fast and comboing.
If you want to play heavy build with slow weapon, then the game will ask kindly to go ♥♥♥♥ yourself.
What's the point to even put heavy weapon in this game ?

Upside of heavy weapon :
- a little bit more of stagger, but you're so slow that you will have more stagger if you play fast hit weapon
- some more damage, but you're so slow that 1 hit with very slow weapon will still be far less than 2 or 3 hit with fast weapon

Downside :
- no poise, only very few hit have a bit of poise, you will need to spam fable art but you don't have infinite fable, you will be stunned a lot, and I mean A LOT
- slow, i know, it's a slow heavy weapon, but on this game where everything is about dodge, parry, and fast moving, a slow ass weapon with no animation cancel is just totaly useless, because you will be locked in your animations and get stuffed
- not that much damage reduction, slow heavy build tends to have lot of armor, hp and poise. In lies of p, you just can't, because ♥♥♥♥ you i guess ?
- low stamina regen, again, on a fast spamming game, you will not be able to do ♥♥♥♥
- low dps, with so many ennemies that have a sreaking lot of hp, it's really a problem that heaviest weapon on this game have so little dps

By going heavy, you will achieve nothing but nerf yourself and makes the game a lot harder for absolutely nothing.
Why did the dev ever bothered to put theese weapons/handle in the first place ? they are trash and unplayable.
In this game, you NEED fast handle/weapon with whatever you are building (mobility, tech and prog have all fast handle).

I'm a bit sad about that because I like heavy ass builds with insane DPS/stagger/poise but in lies of P you just can't, but there are such weapons/handles in the game, but they are useless...

you are veeeeeeeeeery wrong. Heavy weapon are the best option, if you learn to perfect guard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOoE1VPWieI&ab_channel=IronBanana

[TEAM SALTY]

Heavy weapons are great, problem is you. Hell the starting big sword is only weapon I used for the first playthrough.

[Bottom Frag]

引用自 TEAM SALTY：

Heavy weapons are great, problem is you. Hell the starting big sword is only weapon I used for the first playthrough.

For real though, the weapon variety in the game is great and customizing the hilts could lead to some really interesting variations, but I just settled on one weapon because it was so effective. I've been trying to branch out in NG+, but ol' reliable is still there for me when things get a bit too tough.