Limits to applying poison and fire?

[Clevos]

So friend and I are trying to beat the final tower as that's the last undefeated boss for us. im low 40's and he's mid 40's. our damage output is subpar and we run out of time before the boss goes down. we've only been playing for about a week and a half so haven't built super strong pals yet. which is something we are working on right now but obviously breeding will take some time. thats when we noticed that fire and poison seem to be doing percentage damage. so we built a fire and poison weapons and i wielded one while my friend wielded the other type. and things were going great. but about midway into the battle we could not seem to get the dots to land anymore. so the great lead we started petered out towards the end. so is there a limit to how many times you can stick those effects to an enemy?

[Tymon]

It isn't that there is a limit per-se, it is that enemies build up a resistance to being inflicted with it as they are inflicted. Poison fog, the skill from Cinnamoth can basically bypass this.
I do not know the exact calculations for how the resistance buildup works, but a hypothetical example.
Poison Blast has a 100% chance to inflict poison. So, the first hit is basically guaranteed infliction. Now, hypothetically speaking, once that wears off, the enemy gets +10% resistance, making it now a 90% chance to inflict per hit. so after the second time it now is only 80%, etc.
Cinnamoth's poison fog, in the game code, has a 9999% chance to inflict poison. So basically, unless an enemy is somehow able to survive 1000 consecutive inflictions of poison it is always going to work. after 1000 however it too could start to fail. That said, since poison deals max hp based damage, it wouldn't be able to survive that many inflictions unless it can regenerate. (Some pals can heal by eating dead bodies for example). But I also believe that the actual resistance wears off over time but... There's no real way for me to test how this all works from the numeric level.

[Clevos]

nice! thank you for the information. that explains a lot and will help with our strategy

[hippobaer]

Originally posted by Clevos:

So friend and I are trying to beat the final tower as that's the last undefeated boss for us. im low 40's and he's mid 40's. our damage output is subpar and we run out of time before the boss goes down. we've only been playing for about a week and a half so haven't built super strong pals yet. which is something we are working on right now but obviously breeding will take some time. thats when we noticed that fire and poison seem to be doing percentage damage. so we built a fire and poison weapons and i wielded one while my friend wielded the other type. and things were going great. but about midway into the battle we could not seem to get the dots to land anymore. so the great lead we started petered out towards the end. so is there a limit to how many times you can stick those effects to an enemy?

Fire & Poison are percentage based. Their tick damage lasts for 20 seconds so you can swap to another weapon for about 15 seconds since you'll need to reload the crossbow.

Victor and shadowbeak are level 50. You're low 40s and he's mid 40s. You're not supposed to be able to beat him while severely under leveled. You're supposed to reach 50 first, get better gear and weapons and then take him on. Maybe you can both tag him him before being 50 and beat it, but not with just wielding crossbows.........

I'd suggest to wait until you're both 45+ at least and get better weapons. The AR/Shotgun at least.

[Clevos]

Originally posted by notmymains:

Fire & Poison are percentage based. Their tick damage lasts for 20 seconds so you can swap to another weapon for about 15 seconds since you'll need to reload the crossbow.

Victor and shadowbeak are level 50. You're low 40s and he's mid 40s. You're not supposed to be able to beat him while severely under leveled. You're supposed to reach 50 first, get better gear and weapons and then take him on. Maybe you can both tag him him before being 50 and beat it, but not with just wielding crossbows.........

I'd suggest to wait until you're both 45+ at least and get better weapons. The AR/Shotgun at least.

oh yea. we definitely have other weapons. we were just contemplating using those dots as supplementary damage. and it turned out to be the boost we needed. we use bow for quicker shots. whenever our dots would take effect we switched to guns and unloaded. towards the end of the fight once we saw the effect was no longer consistently applying we just stood on our guns. we got the guy. just barely. but that extra damage at the beginning from the dots was enough.

[Balthazaar]

Originally posted by Clevos:

Originally posted by notmymains:

Fire & Poison are percentage based. Their tick damage lasts for 20 seconds so you can swap to another weapon for about 15 seconds since you'll need to reload the crossbow.

Victor and shadowbeak are level 50. You're low 40s and he's mid 40s. You're not supposed to be able to beat him while severely under leveled. You're supposed to reach 50 first, get better gear and weapons and then take him on. Maybe you can both tag him him before being 50 and beat it, but not with just wielding crossbows.........

I'd suggest to wait until you're both 45+ at least and get better weapons. The AR/Shotgun at least.

oh yea. we definitely have other weapons. we were just contemplating using those dots as supplementary damage. and it turned out to be the boost we needed. we use bow for quicker shots. whenever our dots would take effect we switched to guns and unloaded. towards the end of the fight once we saw the effect was no longer consistently applying we just stood on our guns. we got the guy. just barely. but that extra damage at the beginning from the dots was enough.

Grats on defeating him at such a low level!!

[Wolfguarde]

So the issue here isn't to do with percentile chance to proc; that's not a thing with the bows/crossbows. It's hits to proc, and they're affected by diminishing returns. First proc will always take one hit. Second proc will take three, third five, and so forth. Realistically, by around proc 4 you're probably going to get more mileage switching to another weapon than by continuing to stack debuffs, as it becomes more time-consuming to lay the debuff down than it does to do the same damage with any lategame weapon.

[RedlegDaddy]

Originally posted by Tymon:

It isn't that there is a limit per-se, it is that enemies build up a resistance to being inflicted with it as they are inflicted. Poison fog, the skill from Cinnamoth can basically bypass this.
I do not know the exact calculations for how the resistance buildup works, but a hypothetical example.
Poison Blast has a 100% chance to inflict poison. So, the first hit is basically guaranteed infliction. Now, hypothetically speaking, once that wears off, the enemy gets +10% resistance, making it now a 90% chance to inflict per hit. so after the second time it now is only 80%, etc.
Cinnamoth's poison fog, in the game code, has a 9999% chance to inflict poison. So basically, unless an enemy is somehow able to survive 1000 consecutive inflictions of poison it is always going to work. after 1000 however it too could start to fail. That said, since poison deals max hp based damage, it wouldn't be able to survive that many inflictions unless it can regenerate. (Some pals can heal by eating dead bodies for example). But I also believe that the actual resistance wears off over time but... There's no real way for me to test how this all works from the numeric level.

From what I have tested in game, pals get a poison/fire resistance "token" after each time they are successfully applied. So with a poison bow it takes 1 shot to apply poison the first time, 3 the 2nd time, 5 the 3rd time, 8 the 4th time, 14 the 5th time, 35 the 6th time and 65 the 7th time. A token is removed everytime an attack or ability would try to apply poison. Cinnamoths ability/poisen fog remove something like ~10 tokens at once but will also eventually stop applying poison first shot. The number of tokens per level increases enedlessly eventually being in the hundreds. I imagine the number of tokens removed by Cinnamoths partner skill probably increases with more condensed levels.