Summons are exhusting

[Jeshrack]

Having to re summon my bats multiples times during every boss fight is the worst.

I would rather have summons do way less damage, than to be leashed with the most aggravating mini-game imaginable.

I know I sound dramatic, but this is a serious quality of life issue for summoner. When Warlock was announced I was hyped due to my love of summoner in Terraria.

This is a great many steps in the wrong direction. Well really just one step, but it's a doozy.

[SnapSh0t]

I think the same and i do a post:

Simple y conciso: Necesitan ajustarlo y bastante.

Al principio del juego muy lindo muy bien. Cuando cruzas la muralla ya no sirve nada.

Tomo nivel 15 de murciélagos y nivel 65 de invocador y aun así las invocaciones no tienen daño sumado a que el drenaje de mana es muy alto.

Otra cosa es la tontería de subir de nivel de tomo lo cual sube el daño y el CONSUMO DE MANA. No tiene lógica que suba el consumo de mana si principalmente las invocaciones no tienen daño sustentable y la regeneración de mana no ayuda sumado a la cantidad poca de mana.

Si la idea es invocar unidades y estar 1hr dando vueltas para matar a un BOSS, pues los felicito porque lo lograron a su perfección, pero para que el que quiere tener un enfrentamiento nivelado en que valga la pena subir de nivel, no lo lograron en lo absoluto.

Hasta ahora jugando como invocador y usando magia en modo Difícil para simplemente enfrentarme a Ra-Akar y darme cuenta que cometí un gran error y perdida de tiempo subiendo esos skills ya que las invocaciones no le hacen ni cosquilla, Repito ( Nivel 65 de invocador y 50 de magia )

[Koumori]

I think the idea was to make summoning tomes a more "active" weapon type by requiring repeated resummons, compared to the "passive" summons in Terraria which just hang around indefinitely and thereby allow you to always be attacking with a different weapon. I.e. you're supposed to think of using the summoning tome to resummon a minion as being equivalent to making an attack with a regular weapon.

In practice, though, I largely agree with you; even with high summoning skill and summoner armor equipped, the summons aren't useful enough to make periodically switching away from my normal weapon to resummon them feel like a worthwhile time investment in combat.

[valorknight]

Yeah, it was pretty heart breaking to see summons get kinda shafted this way, I get why they did it since they want to make it their own thing and make summoners more active during combat, but it just feels so bad to play them since you're always re-summoning things just to deal damage.

[Salmon of Doubt]

Agreed. Warlock summons are so bad that my friends and I just automatically take all minion items and armor to the scrap table if we bother picking hem up at all. The Mage gear on the other hand seems fairly op. I see some balance patches in the future.

[Jeshrack]

Originally posted by Koumori:

I think the idea was to make summoning tomes a more "active" weapon type by requiring repeated resummons, compared to the "passive" summons in Terraria which just hang around indefinitely and thereby allow you to always be attacking with a different weapon. I.e. you're supposed to think of using the summoning tome to resummon a minion as being equivalent to making an attack with a regular weapon.

In practice, though, I largely agree with you; even with high summoning skill and summoner armor equipped, the summons aren't useful enough to make periodically switching away from my normal weapon to resummon them feel like a worthwhile time investment in combat.

The idea of an active summoner isn't necessarily a bad idea, but in order to make that feel right, the whole mechanic would need to be changed.

Imagine if summoning was a big deal. It has a longer cast time, but then something really big happens, like a single "cast" summons a huge swarm of bats that do a lot of damage, then explode.

Each cast would produce a large effect, but be short lived. It would be kind of like the mage, but the visual and feeling would be a lot more weighty.

[Myst]

I mean it would be better if the summon AI was actually worth it... i summon skeletons and they just stand there... til i am in melee range of something.... they are almost useless... Dont even get me started on using them vs the bird and jellyfish boss!

And yes yes i know if i attack something they will SOMETIMES run off to attack it... but not always!

[Martial Autist]

Originally posted by valorknight:

Yeah, it was pretty heart breaking to see summons get kinda shafted this way, I get why they did it since they want to make it their own thing and make summoners more active during combat, but it just feels so bad to play them since you're always re-summoning things just to deal damage.

Yeah I definitely feel that it needs a bit more time at the drawing board as this was obviously a relatively late addition. Still I am cautiously optimistic for the long term since this is only 1.0 and I am sure it will be rebalanced and reworked as time goes. I've seen a good amount of discussion surrounding summons and I'm sure they are taking the feedback onboard.

As for my 2 cents worth; if they want to make a summoner active during combat I think it would be a good idea to look at concepts like diablo 2's skelemancer (skeleton/curse build) or path of exile's summon-based witch (minions and sentries build) as an example. They could even use the currently empty left-click on tomes to provide support spells such as 'amplify damage', 'slow', and more. While using a weapon or tool (like how terraria has the whip) to mark a target for your minions, and put a 'recall minions to summoner' on it's rmb.

Ideally that is where the mana resource should go towards, and how to keep a summoner active. They are the weapon, you are the lifeline. Your time should be spent actively supporting your minions and keeping yourself safe/alive. This would have an additional benefit as well; as without the need to double dip into regular magic as a summoner, it could be purpose-made for the mage to give that class a more distinct personality and presence as well. I've got a couple of ideas of how that could be done as well but that's a different thread lol.

Otherwise they could go the same route as terraria, it was a simplified version of the concept but it worked fairly well for this type of game, and might be the easiest to implement. As that requires the least amount of adjustments. Just brushing up the AI and adding a weapon that directs minions on hit. From there it would just be balancing the base minion damage and summoner sets' bonuses so they don't lag behind the better sets and weapons at mid-to-end game.

Otherwise 1.0 is great so far.

[Determination]

Yeah minions feel inefficient in a mixed play style (what I try to do) and I can't imagine trying to focus on it.

Summons shouldn't need resummoning and their AI needs to keep up with the player better. If they want summoner as an active playstyle I'd suggest the summoner weapons actually buff the minions/pet when actively used and mark enemies for minions to aggro on (using mana of course). In a mid range cone in front of the player where they 'aim' the minion item or in a radius around where they click on screen (possibly instead debuff marked enemies and buff allies, minions and pets that attack marked enemies).

On resummoning if its about reducing objects on screen just let them appear (up to your cap, consume mana and spawn in automatically, like before if it needs to for balance) around you when you attack something or 'mark' an enemy as per my suggestion above and wait 10 seconds or something of inactivity (no hostile creature attacking you or no marked enemies) before despawning).

[Palo Wagner]

Agree, having to keep summoning is horrible

[Diarmuhnd]

I use 2 summon duration rings, so far i'd rather have that 120% summon duration over other bonuses.

Longer summons would be nice, but toss that idea of doing less damage.
Someone needs a drink.

edit: and i use mage staffs as my 2nd weapon for all fights. Hit something and your summons auto attack them also. Nothing has been to tough to kill so far, even large groups.

[Falchoin]

I like Determination's suggestion about using the left click as a way to mark enemies to tell your summons to go fight a thing. Maybe even debuff the mob so they take more damage from minions.

Using the skeletons is an exercise in frustration as their aggro radius, even if you tag a mob at range, is abysmally small.

[Nokturnal]

Problems with summons currently:
- Base summon duration could use a boost, like at least 2x at long. Even with duration rings, you need that last +50% summon duration from the Talent tree for it to start to feel good.
- No need to put a cooldown on summoning them it already costs mana, (Upon summoning you have to wait to summon a 2nd one due to the cooldown, which is unnecessary as higher tier summons already eat mana for breakfest)
- Summoning without talents feels real bad, once summoning is maxed it's actually pretty good, but the way you level summoning is just how many times your summons have attacked and has nothing to do with the damage they deal so it promotes just maxing their attack speed and ignoring their dmg output.
- Terrible delayed AI, at least give us a way to put our summons on Aggressive mode and have them just attack anything in sight. They do eventually attack what you're attacking, but the delay just feels so bad. Also, the Skeleton description makes you think they can be attacked by enemies, they can't, they're just melee bats essentially.

[Uruso]

Honestly I just want more options. I don't know if the wiki is out of date but I went to look up summoning just because I couldn't find anything other than the bats and we only have 3 options? One of the "options" is just some damaging orbitals? That's not a minion that's a static spell. Like there is so much variety for melee and for ranged and summoners don't even feel halfway fleshed out.

[Nokturnal]

Originally posted by Uruso:

Honestly I just want more options. I don't know if the wiki is out of date but I went to look up summoning just because I couldn't find anything other than the bats and we only have 3 options? One of the "options" is just some damaging orbitals? That's not a minion that's a static spell. Like there is so much variety for melee and for ranged and summoners don't even feel halfway fleshed out.

Yep currently the Bats are the only thing worth using and even they feel bad. Skeletons can't actually be attacked by enemies (even though their description says otherwise) and the Jellyfish are more like a spell than a summon.

The way you level summoning also promotes never upgrading the Bat tome, as it increases their mana cost and damage, but not their attack speed. Only their attack speed matters when it comes to leveling Summoning, which is what you'll be doing for the majority of the game.

[Terran]

Summoner is bad!?!
Why did I buy this...
noooooo!