DWU or DW2?

[Xalderin]

I'm looking at both these games, and I'm seeing DWU more poistive then DW2. I'm wanting to dive into DW, as I've been wanting to try it since release, but never really had a chance to grab one.
Anyone that's played both have any recommendations? Or, are there very clear pros/cons between the two? Any Differences that would make or break either one?

Edit: Thanks for the responses! I'll try DWU first and then try DW 2 if I like it enough. Looks to be the better way to go, for now.

[Ax4711]

DWU has had much more development, you can't play pirates in DW2. And DWU has just got a massive overhaul mod so it's definitely worth a try. Just beware the technical difficulties on modern Windows, but it certainly works with a few tweaks.

[Xalderin]

Originally posted by Ax4711:

DWU has had much more development, you can't play pirates in DW2. And DWU has just got a massive overhaul mod so it's definitely worth a try. Just beware the technical difficulties on modern Windows, but it certainly works with a few tweaks.

Tech difficulties? Are the tweaks relatively easy enough to go through, at least?

[Ax4711]

Yes, thre should be a guide over on the DWU forum. Turn off the intro movie, if you don't have a comprehensive media player installed, and some tweaks on the game shortcut concerning the antiquated graphics/UI.

[Nightskies]

If you're more interested in tactical battles, DW2 is clearly superior.

If you prefer more freedom in creating ships, DW2 is more structured in its designs. DW:U has few requirements and limitations for ships. I feel DW2 has a better design process, and it goes hand in hand with a better scale for ship tactical combat. Even so, I do miss some of the capabilities ships had in DW:U, though that is largely because DW2 expressly does not have these ship capabilities at all (most namely mobile deployable bases).

DW:U has many little holes in it (you have to be very familiar with it to notice them, we're talking text errors and weird/inconsistent values for various factors like weapon stats and racial values), but its a completely developed game (not to say DW2 doesn't have these little holes, but it is better maintained and paid attention to in that regard). DW2 has more features in the future to make it an equally complete experience like endgame events and pirates but aren't here yet, like Ax mentions. That is not to say DW2 is lacking as a 4x game, but those moments that can be found in DW:U are awesome and are worth playing for.

As a space 4x wargame, I find DW2 much more satisfying and would point to it, but as a sci-fi roleplaying emperor/godly overseer of a spacefaring race in a dangerous galaxy, I point to DW:U.

[Brandon]

I have 60ish hours played in DWU, and 300 hours in DW2. My biggest issues in DWU was the Shakuuri or whatever. They'd annihilate me before I even hit mid game and I stopped playing because I lost every game.

[Wraith_Magus]

Zoomed out, DW2 is basically just DW:U with 3d and an interface that belongs in this century without any huge mechanical change to distinguish the sequel. Basically, it's more like a reboot or remaster than a sequel (it even uses the same plot). It's almost entirely the same game to the point that you have to look at relatively minor differences like not having mobile bases or hydrogen not existing while everything uses caslon when you're talking about what's different between them. Hence, it's basically just asking whether you want to pay more money for a prettier game.

One huge difference, however, is DW:U has actual friggin' tutorials, while DW2 only has "tours" that just tell you what all the buttons do. This is absolutely not the kind of game that can get by without a tutorial, and honestly, the biggest reason DW2 has a "mixed" review seems to just be people not understanding the game so they just leave everything automated because they don't know how to work it manually, then getting mad that the automation does stupid things.

The automation needs a lot more options and transparency in communicating to the player WHY it does certain things (for example, there's a thread going right now about how the automation disbanded all their troops because the automation said they had too big a budget shortfall and decided to disband the army to save on maintenance costs and didn't bother to tell the player their military just vanished. The problem isn't that it's a bug - maintenance is 10% of the build cost PER YEAR, so if troops are just sitting around doing nothing for 30 years, disbanding some to cut costs when the economy is tanking and rebuilding them 20 years later when you might actually be at war is a great idea to save costs - the problem is that the game does nothing to communicate or coordinate with the player on this choice, so if the computer thought "we're not going to be at war for 20 years, so we don't need this military" and fired the army, but the player was thinking "I'm now in a great position to declare a war - let's load up the army onto troop transports and... hey, where'd they go?" it becomes a problem.

TBH, I'd suggest getting DW:U and playing some of the tutorials through and maybe some early game stuff just to see if you like it. On sale, DW:U is a lot cheaper than DW2, and if you like DW:U, then DW2 is so similar that you can be certain you'll like DW2.

[TyborPL]

I initially bought DWU, but the interface is probably designed for outdated low resolutions and you can't see anything in HD or UHD unless you have perfect eyesight.

I do miss the orbiting planets though.

[Xalderin]

Originally posted by TyborPL:

I initially bought DWU, but the interface is probably designed for outdated low resolutions and you can't see anything in HD or UHD unless you have perfect eyesight.

I do miss the orbiting planets though.

Yea, that's my issue now. It's hard to see the UI, since I'm doing 4k. Thought I would try DWU first, and then try DW 2 if I liked it enough. Hopefully there's a way to make the UI a bit bigger.

[Wraith_Magus]

Originally posted by Xalderin:

Originally posted by TyborPL:

I initially bought DWU, but the interface is probably designed for outdated low resolutions and you can't see anything in HD or UHD unless you have perfect eyesight.

I do miss the orbiting planets though.

Yea, that's my issue now. It's hard to see the UI, since I'm doing 4k. Thought I would try DWU first, and then try DW 2 if I liked it enough. Hopefully there's a way to make the UI a bit bigger.

Fortunately, there are UI mods for the game over on the Matrix forums - https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10492&t=319357 (EDIT: Don't just click the link - directly copy it into your web browser. Steam adds extra "amp;" characters into the url that means you get to a "page does not exist" error.)

[Wilhelm]

i´m still torn between those two titles but only because DW:U got so much extra content from DLCs.

[deMangler]

Correct me if I'm wrong (someone), I am just getting back into DW2, I initially found that I was so fresh from DWU that I resisted some of the changes.
The biggest one, that changed the whole game for me, is that in DWU you could start building something, like a station, and if you didn't make sure you had prepared by having good supply of the resources needed to build it that could cause huge problems.
This meant there was this great incentive to prepare front-lines, incursions etc with planned logistics. Also cutting off opponent logistics was much more interesting.
I think this is the biggest way in which DW2 is 'worse' than DWU. But there are probably so many ways in which it is better that I can let it go... finally...

[Medway]

I put DW2 on the shelf for a while but really enjoying it now. Put in about 25 hours in the past week or two and no issues so far stability wise.

[jorgen_cab]

Originally posted by deMangler:

Correct me if I'm wrong (someone), I am just getting back into DW2, I initially found that I was so fresh from DWU that I resisted some of the changes.
The biggest one, that changed the whole game for me, is that in DWU you could start building something, like a station, and if you didn't make sure you had prepared by having good supply of the resources needed to build it that could cause huge problems.
This meant there was this great incentive to prepare front-lines, incursions etc with planned logistics. Also cutting off opponent logistics was much more interesting.
I think this is the biggest way in which DW2 is 'worse' than DWU. But there are probably so many ways in which it is better that I can let it go... finally...

This is and odd comment as it is exactly the same in DW2... you still need to prepare by sending the resources to where you want to build something.

The only difference in DWU and DW2 is that you can't start to build something until the resources exist where you want to build something. In DWU you could start to build something and eventually it would be built when the resources arrived.
This was changed in DW2 to the current model as this was one of the MOST frequent complaints that people did not understand why something was not built when they ordered it to be build as resources took forever to get there.

This was sort of a quality of life kind of change from the developers point of view.

[deMangler]

Originally posted by jorgen_cab:

Originally posted by deMangler:

Correct me if I'm wrong (someone), I am just getting back into DW2, I initially found that I was so fresh from DWU that I resisted some of the changes.
The biggest one, that changed the whole game for me, is that in DWU you could start building something, like a station, and if you didn't make sure you had prepared by having good supply of the resources needed to build it that could cause huge problems.
This meant there was this great incentive to prepare front-lines, incursions etc with planned logistics. Also cutting off opponent logistics was much more interesting.
I think this is the biggest way in which DW2 is 'worse' than DWU. But there are probably so many ways in which it is better that I can let it go... finally...

This is and odd comment as it is exactly the same in DW2... you still need to prepare by sending the resources to where you want to build something.

The only difference in DWU and DW2 is that you can't start to build something until the resources exist where you want to build something. In DWU you could start to build something and eventually it would be built when the resources arrived.
This was changed in DW2 to the current model as this was one of the MOST frequent complaints that people did not understand why something was not built when they ordered it to be build as resources took forever to get there.

This was sort of a quality of life kind of change from the developers point of view.

The thing you point out as the only difference is the significant difference I am referring to. :)
For example, it was possible in DWU for you (or your opponent) to start building a station or something, perhaps in some contested area or as a preparation for establishing a footprint somewhere, and then perhaps the supply of resources could be not sufficiently defended or unexpectedly disrupted, or needing to be diverted, meaning that there was this emergent sudden priority to reorganise/restructure or to perhaps choose to abandon something that had already taken up resources that were much needed elsewhere..... etc...
I remember it being complained about, but for me it was one of the most interesting parts of DWU.
In any case I am now letting that go... and enjoying DW2 more and more...

[Subotai]

If you are completely new to the series, you might as well go for Dw2, it is being updated constantly , and more DLC on the way. But there is nothing wrong with DWU (DW1) and i think it was on sale for $3 CAD the other day/week?? LOL. I bought the original DW, + each expansion was like $80+ CAD EACH prior to them essentially being merged into DWU.

DWU benefits from some mods that have extended the life of what would have been the base game. For example, there is 2 mods Expansion mod + DWU Refreshed (you load the 2nd onto the 1st or can play seperate) which I think is amazing and I am enjoying it more than I am with DW2... I wouldnt do it justice to try and explain and if you have no prior experience , it may not interest you, but it's essentially the base game on steroids.

There are some minor differences between the 2 games which for the most part don't matter TOO much, but are still QoL additions present in one or the other that some people will reference such as the ship design in DWU vs 2, or the planets rotating around the sun. I dont miss those when playing 2, but I appreciate it when playing DWU again.