KOFXV combo are too elaborate.

[Fei]

I'm getting old SNK!

I don't have time to lab 3 characters for hours to finally have some fun... SFV understood it very well, they lowered the execution skill cap and made combo/buffer easier and less restricted, the result was fun and combo smooth...
Here in KOF15, combo must be perfectly made, without any slight execution errors, the timing also must be perfect, cancel windows are very small and since the game is faster you just can't react on screen, you MUST LEARN the combo perfectly like a machine.
Also most of characters combo aren't intuitive, quarter circle in one direction, then a half one in the other direction, then two in another direction etc, IT'S A MESS, we are not on Arcade booth anymore FFS...

I'm sorry but i'm done with that, and except the very niche core fanbase NOBODY will lab a character for hours trying to constanly land a small combo.

Understand SNK that i'm a Versus Fighting player "Veteran"! So imagine the GATE that this kind of elaborate combos are for a casual player or for just a new comer?
Auto-combo aren't a solution either, it takes away the sucess/achievemnt feeling
I'm not asking for a "baby" level of input like in Smash, but KOF needed a middle ground, sure KOF15 is probably easier than KOF 98 or others KOF, but it's still miles away from what people expect.

About KOF fans, don't get mad at me, think about the player base in ~3 months...

[smokeymcpot]

Originally posted by DeadM00n:

Originally posted by Akayoru:

Garbage players like you is the exact reason fighting games are rolling down a poophole. Fg where you can learn a character in 15 minutes of training get boring after 15 minutes of playing, see gbfv and stive.

If it takes only 15 minutes to learn a character's moves, setups, frametraps, matchup specifics, etc, ans tens of hours to learn to handle execution, isn't it artificial and unnecessary difficulty by definition?

No.
https://youtu.be/2WhbSNP_zF4

[DeadM00n]

Originally posted by joeschmoe:

Originally posted by DeadM00n:

If it takes only 15 minutes to learn a character's moves, setups, frametraps, matchup specifics, etc, ans tens of hours to learn to handle execution, isn't it artificial and unnecessary difficulty by definition?

No.
https://youtu.be/2WhbSNP_zF4

I watched this video. He talks specifically about motion input, his main thesis is "they are not that hard", and in motion input's case, I 100% agree with. In fact, I would even add (upd - he actually talks about it, i forgot that) that motion input even adds even more "legit" complexity, like with ewgf / pewgf in tekken, or even when done dirty way, like with natural shortcuts in kof. But we are not talking about motion input. We are talking about combo system. There is no need for strick buffering and link windows. They don't add complexity or depth, and argue with it as much as you want, but they don't add competitiveness as well. It is simply a reason why you will spend at least 2 times more time in lab than you would do otherwise, this is everything about it

[kiteless 凧無し]

The fact that sf5 was dumbed down so much to appeal to casuals is why the game sucks and will forever be an inferior game to usf4. Sf5 is a complete and utter snooze fest to watch, now that sf6 has been announced I just hope for a return to its glory days

Fighters are supposed to be technical and if you can’t hack it, play something else, developers shouldn’t be lowering the hurdle to appeal to people who aren’t properly invested

[Psyche]

Originally posted by DeadM00n:

Honestly, I agree. This games wont suffer from a wider buffering window for links. You already can do dp with bs like 63236 (which drives me mad after tekken), and thanks to that, you cannot just throw fireball from walking, so why not. Comparing to this, buffering is completely harmless

Strive was simplified in many aspect, and execution is definitely not the greatest of them

FYI you can completly avoid accidental dash DPs if you tiger knee your fireballs.

[Madao]

i don't think KOF 15 can be aligned with Street Fighter, since SF always tried to change the game and play around certain mechanics in each installation. KOF is closer to Tekken since both are legacy heavy games, that stick to their roots usually and veterans of the series can do well in a vast selection of KOF installations because of knowledge and tech that they have developed over the years.

And tbh Tekken is still the most active (last time i checked) on steamDB on daily playerbase on PC. Difficulty and legacy skill do not make a game unpopular. This game has a lot of features that fans beg for other games to include (instant rematch, rollback), but time will tell. I hope it does well

[DeadM00n]

Originally posted by Psyche:

Originally posted by DeadM00n:

Honestly, I agree. This games wont suffer from a wider buffering window for links. You already can do dp with bs like 63236 (which drives me mad after tekken), and thanks to that, you cannot just throw fireball from walking, so why not. Comparing to this, buffering is completely harmless

Strive was simplified in many aspect, and execution is definitely not the greatest of them

FYI you can completly avoid accidental dash DPs if you tiger knee your fireballs.

Well, yes, but it takes at least 1 extra frame then. It would be better if they made stricker input, but bigger buffering so you don't miss what you want in neutral and have enough time to input it without shortcuts in the combos

[Zero]

Originally posted by Psyche:

Originally posted by DeadM00n:

Honestly, I agree. This games wont suffer from a wider buffering window for links. You already can do dp with bs like 63236 (which drives me mad after tekken), and thanks to that, you cannot just throw fireball from walking, so why not. Comparing to this, buffering is completely harmless

Strive was simplified in many aspect, and execution is definitely not the greatest of them

FYI you can completly avoid accidental dash DPs if you tiger knee your fireballs.

Good luck trying to do a Tiger Knee on a keyboard when you can't use space bar as jump

[Hoppled]

Originally posted by OldManSkills:

Originally posted by Bluekuma:

https://twitter.com/Bluekuma68/status/1496004982008688641?s=20&t=Mt_TjszKflQG5WIEMwnjqg made a commentary version of this quote, it must be done

you can barely read and you make a troll video. this is sad. i hope you have friends

Yeah that recording was super-cringe. Luckily he sounds about 15 yr old, so I wouldn't worry too much, just needs to grow up.

[MrElectric]

This entire thing is a bait post.

[Döktor Jönes]

Originally posted by OrochiBlood:

This entire thing is a bait post.

You're sad

[Kuro]

I'm not a good KoF player by any stretch. In fact, I started playing KoF seriously with this entry.

But I play FGs with a Xbox 360 controller using the analog since forever, and I can tell you that KoF combos look hard, but they are not THAT hard. Sure, I mess them sometimes during real matches because that's what happens (to me at least) on every FG I start playing, but this doesn't make them impossible or whatever.

The only exception would be Angel I guess. I did every character's trials and she is the only one that gave me some issues.

If you need help with any input or timing then there are plenty of guides out there. Of course, no one forces you to like the game.

[B.dot]

Aww.. I'ma give you the jester award to make you feel better!

[Cozmic Chaos]

Originally posted by josealb77:

Originally posted by Fei:

I'm getting old SNK!

I don't have time to lab 3 characters for hours to finally have some fun... SFV understood it very well, they lowered the execution skill cap and made combo/buffer easier and less restricted, the result was fun and combo smooth...
Here in KOF15, combo must be perfectly made, without any slight execution errors, the timing also must be perfect, cancel windows are very small and since the game is faster you just can't react on screen, you MUST LEARN the combo perfectly like a machine.
Also most of characters combo aren't intuitive, quarter circle in one direction, then a half one in the other direction, then two in another direction etc, IT'S A MESS, we are not on Arcade booth anymore FFS...

I'm sorry but i'm done with that, and except the very niche core fanbase NOBODY will lab a character for hours trying to constanly land a small combo.

Understand SNK that i'm a Versus Fighting player "Veteran"! So imagine the GATE that this kind of elaborate combos are for a casual player or for just a new comer?
Auto-combo aren't a solution either, it takes away the sucess/achievemnt feeling
I'm not asking for a "baby" level of input like in Smash, but KOF needed a middle ground, sure KOF15 is probably easier than KOF 98 or others KOF, but it's still miles away from what people expect.

About KOF fans, don't get mad at me, think about the player base in ~3 months...

WTF!!!
Do we live in Matrix and you are a copy of me????
I agree with you in all your points but one. I play with fightstick... and the commands still are a damn mess. No matter you're with a PAD or a stick.
In SFV I play Juri too and got her to Gold. With Poison I got to Platinum. I'm a veteran too and I KNOW that I'm doing the commands well enough to be considered well done.

Here an example: I've done the trials with the key log active. In more than one trials the super didn't come out because having to do the Half Circle Forward (41236) the game registrered 4126. The 3 was not registered. How is it possible in a fightstick going from 4 to 6 doing a half circle motion without going thruough 3. HOW???? (Octogonal restrictor just to clarify). Do you think that a thousands hours veteran player, Gold-Platinum in SFV, having played all the KOFs (even '97 in arcades) CAN FAIL INPUTTING A HALF CIRCLE FOWARD in lots of trials??? Can I have gone from 4 to 6 without doing 3, or from 6 to 4 without 3 or 1??? And WHAT IS MORE IMPORTANT: Can't be a 4126 taken, or minimally corrected, as a Half Circle Forward???

All you have pointed out in your first post is the reason CAPCOM will always be the king without dumbing down the things as much as turning SF into Super Smash Bros. ultimate (Is that a fighting game in fact?).

You've just confirmed the main issue I'm having problems with in the game in that example. I thought it was just a problem with my controller but you just confirmed to me that even a stick can go to the same issues. It's really strange, SNK wants this game to be more accessible to new players by putting in auto combos but at the same time requires you to have every single input registered when you try to do super motions like you're playing SNK characters in CVS2.

[Ashman]

fg devs can not dumb down their games enough to get an increase in playerbase.
sfv was marketed as the "casual entrypoint" yet felt exactly as impossible as any mk,tekken,sf,injustice......

seriously only good players can even notice the difference. not surprising since you need to be a semipro to get at least something done in these games.

at some point this genre will go extinct, breaking your fingers to get a win out of 100 matches? nah-ah

[Wolfe]

I personally don't find the combos too elaborate, but the inputs are too unforgiving. It feels like this game just has limited or no shortcuts when it comes to motions. Modern fgs like SFV, T7, and Strive have all made inputs easy with multiple shortcuts that KoF XV seems to lack.

There have been so many times where I feel like I did a qcfx2 and it didn't come out, or when I feel like I absolutely did a qcb+hcf super and it didn't register correctly. Similarly I play Vanessa and her stances sometimes feel like they don't register correctly even though I haven't changed my inputs, and I don't think I'm that bad or inconsistent at inputs.