KOFXV combo are too elaborate.

[Fei]

I'm getting old SNK!

I don't have time to lab 3 characters for hours to finally have some fun... SFV understood it very well, they lowered the execution skill cap and made combo/buffer easier and less restricted, the result was fun and combo smooth...
Here in KOF15, combo must be perfectly made, without any slight execution errors, the timing also must be perfect, cancel windows are very small and since the game is faster you just can't react on screen, you MUST LEARN the combo perfectly like a machine.
Also most of characters combo aren't intuitive, quarter circle in one direction, then a half one in the other direction, then two in another direction etc, IT'S A MESS, we are not on Arcade booth anymore FFS...

I'm sorry but i'm done with that, and except the very niche core fanbase NOBODY will lab a character for hours trying to constanly land a small combo.

Understand SNK that i'm a Versus Fighting player "Veteran"! So imagine the GATE that this kind of elaborate combos are for a casual player or for just a new comer?
Auto-combo aren't a solution either, it takes away the sucess/achievemnt feeling
I'm not asking for a "baby" level of input like in Smash, but KOF needed a middle ground, sure KOF15 is probably easier than KOF 98 or others KOF, but it's still miles away from what people expect.

About KOF fans, don't get mad at me, think about the player base in ~3 months...

[Shizuma]

Originally posted by Fei:

Originally posted by Shizuma:

I really feel KoF XV is the middle ground you're talking about. Controls are easier than previous KoF and it still maintains a decent skill cap, while not being too much.

I can't agree, for exemple i was playing Juri on SFV which is concidered harder to play than 90% of other character in the roster.
And I can tell you most difficult Juri combo are on the same level of difficulty has Shermie Lv1 or Lv2 combo for exemple.

Maybe i do something wrong, but Shermie Lv1 combo... from HP cancel into half circle HP took me like 30 tries and still it was only working once on 10 try after that.
All cancel windows are way too short, also impact stun recovery is so short in KOF15 that it's impossible to do it on reaction, all these move must be comited before.

My main franchise is SF, Juri is one of the characters I enjoy in SFV, you're over-exagerating the difficulty of Shermie level 1 combo when comparing it to Juri's most difficults one for each seasons.

[Fei]

Originally posted by Shizuma:

My main franchise is SF, Juri is one of the characters I enjoy in SFV, you're over-exagerating the difficulty of Shermie level 1 combo when comparing it to Juri's most difficults one for each seasons.

I'm not exagerating this much, SFV buffer, cancel windows, feedback on impact, input logic is THE difference.
While trying to do combo in KOF15, i feel like fighting against the game mechanics, i didn't had any joy failing to cancel a HP into quater circle back 20 times!
SFV allow you to READ the action, you can react visualy, not in KOF15 at least not with the few characters i tried...

[Madao]

I'm 29 but still new to FGs(Was playing RTS/Dota/MMOs all those years), before learning about the buffer options i was confused how tf i was supposed to do all those trials. Turns out its actually easier (for me) than most other systems.
If anything i feel it rewards older players while being welcoming to newer/returning ppl to the franchise. It's the something in between from NRS combo system (dialing whole string) to older SF titles with Link system.
I'm biased because this is the game that i vibe the most so far with combos, but i'm sure i'm not the only one that appreciates how the system works.

The obvious bad side to all this is that all these stuff about hold the button to store input buffers, input shortcuts and more are from external sources and not in the game.

P.S idk what the goal of the post is now that i re-read it, You don't have to lab for hours to play the game and have fun... If you wanna play casually just practice the BnBs and have fun. You don't have to know optimal combos or anything to have fun.

The post feels somehow trying to blame the game for your very specific goal of doing optimal stuff without practising them ? How can you say you play Versus games and then say you don't have time to learn characters or that Circle front back are arcade era thing (you don't have to do the whole thing most of the time with shortcut, and they removed pretzels). Very weird energy feels like bait.

[Fei]

Originally posted by Madao:

The post feels somehow trying to blame the game for your very specific goal of doing optimal stuff without practising them ? How can you say you play Versus games and then say you don't have time to learn characters or that Circle front back are arcade era thing (you don't have to do the whole thing most of the time with shortcut, and they removed pretzels). Very weird energy feels like bait.

I blame the game yes, I'm not against trial or training mod, i'm against unintuitive gameplay.
You didn't read what we are saying, most of us are fighter veteran, we are for achievement feeling what it actually rewarding and fun.
I don't fail any command imput on SFV, yet ifail almost half of the time on KOFXV, i'm not making this up just to trash the game.
I really wanted to play and like KOFXV.

[Riding into the night]

Originally posted by Fei:

Originally posted by Shizuma:

My main franchise is SF, Juri is one of the characters I enjoy in SFV, you're over-exagerating the difficulty of Shermie level 1 combo when comparing it to Juri's most difficults one for each seasons.

I'm not exagerating this much, SFV buffer, cancel windows, feedback on impact, input logic is THE difference.
While trying to do combo in KOF15, i feel like fighting against the game mechanics, i didn't had any joy failing to cancel a HP into quater circle back 20 times!
SFV allow you to READ the action, you can react visualy, not in KOF15 at least not with the few characters i tried...

> fighting game veteran
> "failing to cancel a HP into quarter circle back 20 times!"

A greater joke has never been told

[SeeNoWeevil]

The thing is, there's a lot of (non obvious) execution tricks/quirks people are using in KOF to pull off these combos. If something is insanely hard, there's good chance you're 'doing it wrong'. Some veterans like to be smug about this but they've accrued knowledge of these hidden input quirks over the years. Someone told me about something recently (you can continue the next input while still holding the button from the previous input) and this turned a damn difficult combo into something I hit reliably. It's a bit of a weird design choice imo. Make stuff really hard then add some hidden tricks in to make it easier again. Why not.. just make it not so hard in the first place?

Personally I think SNK will make 15 a bit more lenient. Some of the cancel windows are ridiculously tight for no good reason.

[Döktor Jönes]

FGC circle jerk culists have cried for so long to have a clunky, unintuitive piece of software.

Let them have it. Let them gatekeep. Let them pat their backs each other, until the game has no players anymore and they migrade to a newer game that they can pat their backs or complain how easy it is.

Let the bodily decay do the rest and they might understand someday.

[Riding into the night]

Originally posted by Doktor Jones:

FGC circle jerk culists have cried for so long to have a clunky, unintuitive piece of software.

Let them have it. Let them gatekeep. Let them pat their backs each other, until the game has no players anymore and they migrade to a newer game that they can pat their backs or complain how easy it is.

Let the bodily decay do the rest and they might understand someday.

That's a strawman and a half, and how appropriate somebody with a Baiken pfp complains about "gatekeeping" and "un-intuitiveness"

[Jacowboy]

Eh I've always sucked at KOF, but I still enjoy playing it on a VERY basic level, with a few small combos or no combos at all... it's a pretty flexible game, fortunately, and specially now in XV where you can use EX specials at will.

I'd recommend you play Samsho, but it's basically dead at this point... but hopefully they'll do another one cause samsho is a great "old man" fighting game... =P

[smokeymcpot]

OP, you suck ♥♥♥♥ at fighting games. If you're actually a veteran then it's about time to finally admit that to yourself.

If you don't like labbing and challenging execution then pick a different game. You have plenty of options at the moment.

"think about the player base in ~3 months"

Nobody cares about these people. They abandon every single fighting game - no matter the difficulty.

[Shizuma]

Originally posted by Fei:

Originally posted by Shizuma:

My main franchise is SF, Juri is one of the characters I enjoy in SFV, you're over-exagerating the difficulty of Shermie level 1 combo when comparing it to Juri's most difficults one for each seasons.

I'm not exagerating this much, SFV buffer, cancel windows, feedback on impact, input logic is THE difference.
While trying to do combo in KOF15, i feel like fighting against the game mechanics, i didn't had any joy failing to cancel a HP into quater circle back 20 times!
SFV allow you to READ the action, you can react visualy, not in KOF15 at least not with the few characters i tried...

I get your point don't worry, especially on qcf motions that has to be done with 236 instead of 26, the game is pretty unforgiving on that. This is surprising because hcf can be done with 426, the engine forgive missed inputs with that motion.
I didn't have this feeling when I was playing the beta on PS4, well maybe the fact that my arm wasn't broken yet helped a bit.

That being said, KOF is not SF and execution is more strict, I have no specific complain about the game when I miss, it's just that I need to sharpen my execution.

[Gato(Means Cat)]

Has anyone tried doing Heidern's moon slash into super on a controller?

[Zero]

The inputs are bad, specially if you are using a keyboard
Most people don't use a stick or mixbox while the game reads like we are still going to arcades
The combos structures aren't hard but they are a pain to use in the game
02 UM has more complex inputs but they are 10x easier to actually use because the game reads it better

[DeadM00n]

Originally posted by Akayoru:

Garbage players like you is the exact reason fighting games are rolling down a poophole. Fg where you can learn a character in 15 minutes of training get boring after 15 minutes of playing, see gbfv and stive.

If it takes only 15 minutes to learn a character's moves, setups, frametraps, matchup specifics, etc, ans tens of hours to learn to handle execution, isn't it artificial and unnecessary difficulty by definition?

[Amos]

I actually feel like 15 is pretty easy for a KoF game. They simplified a lot of special move inputs and the buffer window on super cancels is really huge, you just have to do it before hitstun ends. (Some characters are blessed and can do it in recovery too). Auto-combos are really strong too because the supers do normal damage.

I still have a really hard time but it's because I play on a hitbox and hitting down is really hard to do both consistently and fast.