KOFXV combo are too elaborate.

[Fei]

I'm getting old SNK!

I don't have time to lab 3 characters for hours to finally have some fun... SFV understood it very well, they lowered the execution skill cap and made combo/buffer easier and less restricted, the result was fun and combo smooth...
Here in KOF15, combo must be perfectly made, without any slight execution errors, the timing also must be perfect, cancel windows are very small and since the game is faster you just can't react on screen, you MUST LEARN the combo perfectly like a machine.
Also most of characters combo aren't intuitive, quarter circle in one direction, then a half one in the other direction, then two in another direction etc, IT'S A MESS, we are not on Arcade booth anymore FFS...

I'm sorry but i'm done with that, and except the very niche core fanbase NOBODY will lab a character for hours trying to constanly land a small combo.

Understand SNK that i'm a Versus Fighting player "Veteran"! So imagine the GATE that this kind of elaborate combos are for a casual player or for just a new comer?
Auto-combo aren't a solution either, it takes away the sucess/achievemnt feeling
I'm not asking for a "baby" level of input like in Smash, but KOF needed a middle ground, sure KOF15 is probably easier than KOF 98 or others KOF, but it's still miles away from what people expect.

About KOF fans, don't get mad at me, think about the player base in ~3 months...

[TotemMX]

You should check this guide (not mine), it will help you to improve inputs.
I agree with cancels windows being too small, but the rest is not that hard, once you know some "few tricks".

Anyway I have seen "pro" people from FGC having a hard time performing the combos, but I think in part is because this game needs a better tutorial and combo learn curve less challenging (some rank 1 trial combos are hard and it means the first layer of combo learn!).

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2758019997

[Trizz]

im loving it personally. I have an arcade stick tho so. git good. im 33 and supremely happy with KoF XV. I had played garou mark of wolves and some kof 98 but this pretty much my first real take at KoF. yes its harder to input than SF, and the combos are much faster pacing than say Tekken (along w very diff inputs).. but I am enjoying it so. Id say fighting games is a niche base as is. I have been playing tekken 7 while dbz, strive, mk, etc. all popping off because they do not appeal to me. The hardcore technical nature of this game plus the high skill ceiling is what makes it a masterpiece. I looked at the level 3 terry combo in missions for a lil thought man that looks so hard, learned it later that day... just gotta spend a tiny bit of time w the game. I think most fighting game players look forward to the lab time....

[Bluekuma]

https://twitter.com/Bluekuma68/status/1496004982008688641?s=20&t=Mt_TjszKflQG5WIEMwnjqg made a commentary version of this quote, it must be done

[Shizuma]

Originally posted by Fei:

I'm getting old SNK!
Understand SNK that i'm a Versus Fighting player "Veteran"! So imagine the GATE that this kind of elaborate combos are for a casual player or for just a new comer?
Auto-combo aren't a solution either, it takes away the sucess/achievemnt feeling
I'm not asking for a "baby" level of input like in Smash, but KOF needed a middle ground, sure KOF15 is probably easier than KOF 98 or others KOF, but it's still miles away from what people expect.

About KOF fans, don't get mad at me, think about the player base in ~3 months...

Yeah well... me too it's been 30 years. I have hard time with KoF XV, even if it's the easiest one, I'm just not at ease with KoF in general. I've played every KoF but on a casual level.
However this is cool to see that some fighting games still resist in lowering the skill cap. I mean, look at Strive, the game was dumbed down so much to please newcomers this is not even interesting for veterans.
I'm fine with KoFXV as it is, and even though I don't have the same dedication and time I had before, this is cool to still see some games not loosing their soul.

[Fei]

Originally posted by Fdynasty:

This is the easiest kof go cry more

Originally posted by Bluekuma:

https://twitter.com/Bluekuma68/status/1496004982008688641?s=20&t=Mt_TjszKflQG5WIEMwnjqg made a commentary version of this quote, it must be done

You guys really make this community shine...

Originally posted by Shizuma:

Yeah well... me too it's been 30 years. I have hard time with KoF XV, even if it's the easiest one, I'm just not at ease with KoF in general. I've played every KoF but on a casual level.
However this is cool to see that some fighting games still resist in lowering the skill cap. I mean, look at Strive, the game was dumbed down so much to please newcomers this is not even interesting for veterans.
I'm fine with KoFXV as it is, and even though I don't have the same dedication and time I had before, this is cool to still see some games not loosing their soul.

This is a totally valid point, but i'm talking about having a middle ground... not totaly dumbing down the whole concept. Execution doesn't have to be a labor of hours investement, it must also be intuitive and fun.
Here KOF15 execution is more difficult than Strive while also being more Tedious and also being less forgiving, It's not properly balanced imo.

[Mike]

The game is perfectly fine its just nobody wants learn a fighting games any more (Strive and MK11 have spoiled people), instead they would prefer the games to be brought down to their skill level. I've stated this same thing in many threads talking about difficulty, lowering the skill gap, the game being unforgiving...etc.

Look, I got serious (got gud) with KOF in KOF 14. KOF 14 was less forgiving then 15 for various reasons like, bad netcode, more difficult, less players to play with, Max mode did not have a time freeze mechanic....etc. I wasn't good at first just like you because it was the first time I really dived into the mechanics of a KOF game but I was so drawn in by the gameplay and characters that I wanted to learn and get good.

There are hard games like BlazBlue and Tekken that I wish I could dedicate more time to to get good but I realized those fighting games were just not for me. Do I want them to change their core mechanics just for me? Of course not, because I realize the world does not revolve around me and their are many who love those games because the way they play.

If I can get good at KOF starting in 14 then anyone can and it has nothing to do with the difficulty of the mechanics. Every new fighting game you play for the first time will lead to many losses and learning, and if you don't have that mentality then you will not stick with it anyway. Every fighting game has a decent amount players at the start and then eventually majority will drop off for various reason, this happens with all fighters.

Stop wanting every fighting game franchise to cater to your skill level and learn to appreciate what makes KOF different and unique. I did and KOF is now one of my favorite fighting game franchies, lore and all.

[noname]

My man, if it takes you hours to learn how to do a standard normal/special/super combo, then you're doing something horribly wrong, especially if you're a fighting game "veteran."

[Shizuma]

Originally posted by Fei:

This is a totally valid point, but i'm talking about having a middle ground... not totaly dumbing down the whole concept. Execution doesn't have to be a labor of hours investement, it must also be intuitive and fun.
Here KOF15 execution is more difficult than Strive while also being more Tedious and also being less forgiving, It's not properly balanced imo.

I really feel KoF XV is the middle ground you're talking about. Controls are easier than previous KoF and it still maintains a decent skill cap, while not being too much.

[Fei]

Originally posted by Shizuma:

I really feel KoF XV is the middle ground you're talking about. Controls are easier than previous KoF and it still maintains a decent skill cap, while not being too much.

I can't agree, for exemple i was playing Juri on SFV which is concidered harder to play than 90% of other character in the roster.
And I can tell you most difficult Juri combo are on the same level of difficulty has Shermie Lv1 or Lv2 combo for exemple.

Maybe i do something wrong, but Shermie Lv1 combo... from HP cancel into half circle HP took me like 30 tries and still it was only working once on 10 try after that.
All cancel windows are way too short, also impact stun recovery is so short in KOF15 that it's impossible to do it on reaction, all these move must be comited before.

[OldManSkills]

Originally posted by Bluekuma:

https://twitter.com/Bluekuma68/status/1496004982008688641?s=20&t=Mt_TjszKflQG5WIEMwnjqg made a commentary version of this quote, it must be done

you can barely read and you make a troll video. this is sad. i hope you have friends

[OldManSkills]

Originally posted by Fei:

I'm getting old SNK!

I don't have time to lab 3 characters for hours to finally have some fun... SFV understood it very well, they lowered the execution skill cap and made combo/buffer easier and less restricted, the result was fun and combo smooth...
Here in KOF15, combo must be perfectly made, without any slight execution errors, the timing also must be perfect, cancel windows are very small and since the game is faster you just can't react on screen, you MUST LEARN the combo perfectly like a machine.
Also most of characters combo aren't intuitive, quarter circle in one direction, then a half one in the other direction, then two in another direction etc, IT'S A MESS, we are not on Arcade booth anymore FFS...

I'm sorry but i'm done with that, and except the very niche core fanbase NOBODY will lab a character for hours trying to constanly land a small combo.

Understand SNK that i'm a Versus Fighting player "Veteran"! So imagine the GATE that this kind of elaborate combos are for a casual player or for just a new comer?
Auto-combo aren't a solution either, it takes away the sucess/achievemnt feeling
I'm not asking for a "baby" level of input like in Smash, but KOF needed a middle ground, sure KOF15 is probably easier than KOF 98 or others KOF, but it's still miles away from what people expect.

About KOF fans, don't get mad at me, think about the player base in ~3 months...

dont listen to the elites nerds here who play with stick or hitbox saying this game is easy most of them cant even execute hard combos anyway i played about 20-30 matches nobody besides maybe the 1-3% does hard combos. the inputs are a mess to do on pad with very small window.

[DeadM00n]

Honestly, I agree. This games wont suffer from a wider buffering window for links. You already can do dp with bs like 63236 (which drives me mad after tekken), and thanks to that, you cannot just throw fireball from walking, so why not. Comparing to this, buffering is completely harmless

Strive was simplified in many aspect, and execution is definitely not the greatest of them

[josealb77]

Originally posted by Fei:

I'm getting old SNK!

I don't have time to lab 3 characters for hours to finally have some fun... SFV understood it very well, they lowered the execution skill cap and made combo/buffer easier and less restricted, the result was fun and combo smooth...
Here in KOF15, combo must be perfectly made, without any slight execution errors, the timing also must be perfect, cancel windows are very small and since the game is faster you just can't react on screen, you MUST LEARN the combo perfectly like a machine.
Also most of characters combo aren't intuitive, quarter circle in one direction, then a half one in the other direction, then two in another direction etc, IT'S A MESS, we are not on Arcade booth anymore FFS...

I'm sorry but i'm done with that, and except the very niche core fanbase NOBODY will lab a character for hours trying to constanly land a small combo.

Understand SNK that i'm a Versus Fighting player "Veteran"! So imagine the GATE that this kind of elaborate combos are for a casual player or for just a new comer?
Auto-combo aren't a solution either, it takes away the sucess/achievemnt feeling
I'm not asking for a "baby" level of input like in Smash, but KOF needed a middle ground, sure KOF15 is probably easier than KOF 98 or others KOF, but it's still miles away from what people expect.

About KOF fans, don't get mad at me, think about the player base in ~3 months...

WTF!!!
Do we live in Matrix and you are a copy of me????
I agree with you in all your points but one. I play with fightstick... and the commands still are a damn mess. No matter you're with a PAD or a stick.
In SFV I play Juri too and got her to Gold. With Poison I got to Platinum. I'm a veteran too and I KNOW that I'm doing the commands well enough to be considered well done.

Here an example: I've done the trials with the key log active. In more than one trials the super didn't come out because having to do the Half Circle Forward (41236) the game registrered 4126. The 3 was not registered. How is it possible in a fightstick going from 4 to 6 doing a half circle motion without going thruough 3. HOW???? (Octogonal restrictor just to clarify). Do you think that a thousands hours veteran player, Gold-Platinum in SFV, having played all the KOFs (even '97 in arcades) CAN FAIL INPUTTING A HALF CIRCLE FOWARD in lots of trials??? Can I have gone from 4 to 6 without doing 3, or from 6 to 4 without 3 or 1??? And WHAT IS MORE IMPORTANT: Can't be a 4126 taken, or minimally corrected, as a Half Circle Forward???

All you have pointed out in your first post is the reason CAPCOM will always be the king without dumbing down the things as much as turning SF into Super Smash Bros. ultimate (Is that a fighting game in fact?).

[tracksone]

If this game is too hard for you, go play one thats easier like dbfz? This game SHOUDLNT be easy, KOF has always been a high skill game with lots of execution and long fun combos and it should NEVER change that. Its part of what makes it so special in this day and age of dumbing down fighting games

KOF is KOF.
KOF is NOT SF
KOF Is NOT dbfz or marvel etc


Let KOF be KOF please, theres plenty of other more casual games out there to play that are good.

[Fei]

Thanks for sharing these feedbacks guys, i feel less alone lol.

I know i wasn't alone anyway, i watched several PRO player, and they actually fails a LOT of combo, while it's something they do all day long.
Will2PaC, Smug, Jwong they are insanly good players and they struggle sometimes.

Originally posted by josealb77:

In SFV I play Juri too and got her to Gold. With Poison I got to Platinum. I'm a veteran too and I KNOW that I'm doing the commands well enough to be considered well done.

I play with DS4 Pad, my Juri was almost Diamond and i could play at Super Gold Level any character.(except Menat ^^)

Originally posted by tracksone:

If this game is too hard for you, go play one thats easier like dbfz? This game SHOUDLNT be easy, KOF has always been a high skill game with lots of execution and long fun combos and it should NEVER change that.

Let KOF be KOF please, theres plenty of other more casual games out there to play that are good.

I'm not a casual player, casual player won't even post on the board or even bother buying King Of Fighters.

What you call "difficulty" is unituitive gameplay, lack of adapation and confort standart that most other fighting game reached.

Your false elitism is just regresism, by talking like this thinking you are superior by pretending tedious input are the mark of the king you just expell other players from a game THAT NEEDS players to live.