Chaos Frame Question

[jlaflair]

Hi all,

I've been trying to find a straight answer on raising Chaos Frame in Reborn, but the advice out there seems to tilt a lot between the old Phorampa vs Training Battles. Could use some assistance from folks who have direct experience in this version of the game, please!

Long story short, I made it to the battle where you can help Cressida fight Nybeth and recruit her thereafter and managed to get through it successfully after several tries. I was so happy until I remembered.. Chaos Frame. D'oh! Suffice to say, I did not get my recruit.

Fortunately, I save constantly and had a save right before that battle, so I've been trying to improve my Galgastani Chaos Frame. I remember the death march method on PSP/Vita, and people at least seem to agree that it still works. Recruit 11 Galgastani, take them into battle with one high level unit, and retreat once the recruits are all unconscious.

What differs in opinion is whether or not you can use Training Battles in town to do this now. It would admittedly be nice as a way to reduce some of the redium, as units don't truly die in those fights, so you can just set them to AI and do something in another window for a minute before retreating. Others say you still need to go to Phorampa and put the recruits in risk of actual death before retreating.

Any insights here as to whether I can use Training to do this? I've done probably twenty training battles at Almorica Castle right now, just before the fight I mentioned above, and the Galgastani units still have a "This unit often speaks openly of its distaste for your decisions" response on their loyalty. I did try recruiting new Galgastani units to check whether they have different responses and just got one which says "This unit averts its eyes when spoken to and often refuses to reply to even simple questions." I can't tell if that's a step up or down, hah, but it seems better than openly speaking poorly of me? Maybe the training battles are working after all.

Thank you!

EDIT: For the curious, I've been keeping at it with the training battles and it appears they DO work to improve Chaos Frame. Definitely a step up for me in terms of the grind from PSP/Vita. Having to do the battle for the character I want all over again, though... Ugh. I could return when I get WORLD, but I would prefer to recruit her now. Toughest part of the fight isn't the enemies so much as the usual guest death wish, and you only get one chance to keep this one alive!

[DVerde]

Pretty sure capping 12 Galgastani units will give you enough CF by itself, regardless of Death marching? I don't really see enough info to really confirm or deny that method, though.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by DVerde:

Pretty sure capping 12 Galgastani units will give you enough CF by itself, regardless of Death marching? I don't really see enough info to really confirm or deny that method, though.

That's what I'm hoping for. I waited to get my level cap to 50, and am now keeping a party of Galgastani on stand by for when I jump over to a Chaos Route timeline. When I get to Chapter 4, I'm gonna grind them all up to 50 and hope that gets me a passable frame level.

[knockoffsoda]

May be a bit less relevant to you as you're already at least some part of the way through Chapter 4, but to all those that despise Death Marching, you can do the following to get your Chaos Frame up high enough with Galgastan:

1) Don't fight with the Order of Philaha at Brigantys (go to the front gate alone with Denam unarmed).
2) Do the Pirate's Graveyard quest and refuse to take the treasure (decline on your first offer to take it).
3) Start the Apocrypha sidequest, but when asked if you can handle the power at Coritanae, say you're uncertain.
4) After taking Heim, refuse to punish the Walister and Galgastani troops sacking the city.

I just finished Worlding back to the start of the game and doing a Chaos run for characters, killing basically everyone in every battle save for a few here or there on save-the-guest missions, and after this my CF with Galgastan was at 70. Got Cressida after that.

If you've opened up the battle at Golyat, it's going to be a bit more difficult as it'll be in the way of doing Pirate's Graveyard, and if you've done the first battle in Balmamusa Dead, the Qadriga battle is going to block off the Apocrypha fort battle.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by knockoffsoda:

1) Don't fight with the Order of Philaha at Brigantys (go to the front gate alone with Denam unarmed).

Is THAT how you're supposed to handle the situation?

Wish the game had been slightly more clear on that. Yeah, I know Denam mentions going alone and unarmed, but when the game draws you into the battle screen set up, you kind of expect a fight to be inevitable.

[knockoffsoda]

I remember being surprised when I found out you could do it even in the PS1 version of the game. I felt the same way as you do back then. "Yeah he says he should do it, but that's just story fluff."

[jlaflair]

Originally posted by knockoffsoda:

If you've opened up the battle at Golyat, it's going to be a bit more difficult as it'll be in the way of doing Pirate's Graveyard, and if you've done the first battle in Balmamusa Dead, the Qadriga battle is going to block off the Apocrypha fort battle.

Unfortunately, yes, I'm stuck in the situation of the battle being in Golyat and so cutting off the treasure quest and an easy CF boost. Do you have any idea if I just need to keep death marching in Almorica training, or would actually raising these units' levels progress CF up faster? They're only a step or two from having the Chaos Frame where it needs to be to recruit the character. Thanks.

[DVerde]

Originally posted by jlaflair:

Originally posted by knockoffsoda:

If you've opened up the battle at Golyat, it's going to be a bit more difficult as it'll be in the way of doing Pirate's Graveyard, and if you've done the first battle in Balmamusa Dead, the Qadriga battle is going to block off the Apocrypha fort battle.

Unfortunately, yes, I'm stuck in the situation of the battle being in Golyat and so cutting off the treasure quest and an easy CF boost. Do you have any idea if I just need to keep death marching in Almorica training, or would actually raising these units' levels progress CF up faster? They're only a step or two from having the Chaos Frame where it needs to be to recruit the character. Thanks.

You can't "death march" in training, because units don't actually get incapacitated.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by DVerde:

Originally posted by jlaflair:

Unfortunately, yes, I'm stuck in the situation of the battle being in Golyat and so cutting off the treasure quest and an easy CF boost. Do you have any idea if I just need to keep death marching in Almorica training, or would actually raising these units' levels progress CF up faster? They're only a step or two from having the Chaos Frame where it needs to be to recruit the character. Thanks.

You can't "death march" in training, because units don't actually get incapacitated.

No, it works. There's people showing videos on how to do it.

Basically, you have one guy who's high level hang back and then make them retreat once all your level 1 Galgastani units get knocked out.

The reason why it seems like it doesn't work, is because each unit only gives somewhere around 0.1 or so to increasing your Galgastani rating.

[DVerde]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by DVerde:

You can't "death march" in training, because units don't actually get incapacitated.

No, it works. There's people showing videos on how to do it.

Basically, you have one guy who's high level hang back and then make them retreat once all your level 1 Galgastani units get knocked out.

The reason why it seems like it doesn't work, is because each unit only gives somewhere around 0.1 or so to increasing your Galgastani rating.

As far as the forums say, this only works during actual fights because units get incapacitated and then revived; this doesn't happen during training.

[Skeenip]

Originally posted by DVerde:

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

No, it works. There's people showing videos on how to do it.

Basically, you have one guy who's high level hang back and then make them retreat once all your level 1 Galgastani units get knocked out.

The reason why it seems like it doesn't work, is because each unit only gives somewhere around 0.1 or so to increasing your Galgastani rating.

As far as the forums say, this only works during actual fights because units get incapacitated and then revived; this doesn't happen during training.

I'm in CODA where can see CF and can validate you can death march to raise CF in training. You can run full 12 galgastani and let all die.

[jlaflair]

I can confirm that the training battle method works, as it improved my CF with the Galgastani by two ranks.

That said, I popped back in after more testing to observe that leveling them (as was suggested earlier) doesn't seem to help much more at all. It absolutely does cause that unit's personal loyalty to skyrocket, but CF remains pretty much what it was.

Interestingly, Lawful Galgastani seem to have a higher CF message for me than Neutral or Chaotic ones. I'm not on the Lawful route and all of the ones I'm taking into combat are Chaotic.

Well, on with the slow training mode (which is still faster and cheaper than it used to be). One more step and I should be set!