Which Version Is This?

[GrandMajora]

Alright, so I've been doing some looking around, and apparently there's a bunch of different Tactics Ogre games out there.

There's the original Tactics Ogre, there's Tactics Ogre: Remake, there's Knights of Lodis, there's Let Us Cling Together (LUCT)...

Needless to say, it's become quite difficult figuring out what Tactics Ogre: Reborn is supposed to be a remastered version of. Can somebody help clarify the situation for me, so that I know which game I should do more in depth research on before purchasing?

[Melodia]

" Tactics Ogre: Remake"?

Anyway, this is a remaster (basically) of the PSP version of Let Us Cling Togather (which is what the game has ALWAYS been called, the English localization just dropped the subtitle originally)

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Melodia:

" Tactics Ogre: Remake"?

Don't know, that's just one of the titles I've found through google searches.

Originally posted by Melodia:

Anyway, this is a remaster (basically) of the PSP version of Let Us Cling Togather (which is what the game has ALWAYS been called, the English localization just dropped the subtitle originally)

Alright. That brings up another concern. I've heard that the TRAINING command option was removed from the PSP version of the game, but was present in the other consoles. IF that's true, can we expect to see it in Reborn?

[Pickleton]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Alright. That brings up another concern. I've heard that the TRAINING command option was removed from the PSP version of the game, but was present in the other consoles. IF that's true, can we expect to see it in Reborn?

Yes. The training mode will be in this game, though they did introduce a level cap.
This means that you can easily train any new units up to whatever level without having to do the PSP "bring your child to work day" BS, but you can't abuse it to get lvl50 characters in chapter 1, either.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Pickleton:

Yes. The training mode will be in this game, though they did introduce a level cap.
This means that you can easily train any new units up to whatever level without having to do the PSP "bring your child to work day" BS, but you can't abuse it to get lvl50 characters in chapter 1, either.

As long as I have a method to avoid soft locking myself near the end of the game. I couldn't beat FFT, because I got to a point where my characters were too weak for the challenge ahead, and I couldn't go back to grind random encounters to train them up.

[Haddon]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by Pickleton:

Yes. The training mode will be in this game, though they did introduce a level cap.
This means that you can easily train any new units up to whatever level without having to do the PSP "bring your child to work day" BS, but you can't abuse it to get lvl50 characters in chapter 1, either.

As long as I have a method to avoid soft locking myself near the end of the game. I couldn't beat FFT, because I got to a point where my characters were too weak for the challenge ahead, and I couldn't go back to grind random encounters to train them up.

Wiegraf?
And this, my friend, is why so many of us RPG veterans keep 2-3 saves. I keep 3 usually per game, a save before any dungeon/big battle that is my "safe" save I can go back to, and 1-2 saves that are my "active" saves. Started doing this after I softlocked myself twice in two RPGs in a row, can't even remember what now.

[Pickleton]

Originally posted by Haddon:

Wiegraf?
And this, my friend, is why so many of us RPG veterans keep 2-3 saves. I keep 3 usually per game, a save before any dungeon/big battle that is my "safe" save I can go back to, and 1-2 saves that are my "active" saves. Started doing this after I softlocked myself twice in two RPGs in a row, can't even remember what now.

Yeah I was tempted to reference that as well, but this game does have its own version of it in the Ch2 Chaos route. I had a bit of trouble with that fight in the PSP version because I was building Denam as a support character (ninja with charm blowgun and field alchemy) rather than a frontliner. I was finally able to do it by taking a counterintuitive change of "unequip everything but a bow and kite him around with my superior range and speed".

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Pickleton:

Yeah I was tempted to reference that as well, but this game does have its own version of it in the Ch2 Chaos route. I had a bit of trouble with that fight in the PSP version because I was building Denam as a support character (ninja with charm blowgun and field alchemy) rather than a frontliner. I was finally able to do it by taking a counterintuitive change of "unequip everything but a bow and kite him around with my superior range and speed".

Originally posted by Haddon:

Wiegraf?
And this, my friend, is why so many of us RPG veterans keep 2-3 saves. I keep 3 usually per game, a save before any dungeon/big battle that is my "safe" save I can go back to, and 1-2 saves that are my "active" saves. Started doing this after I softlocked myself twice in two RPGs in a row, can't even remember what now.

Apparently, the Archers are the undisputed kings of combat in this game, until you start encountering people who have Reflection equipped.

[Pickleton]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Apparently, the Archers are the undisputed kings of combat in this game, until you start encountering people who have Reflection equipped.

Yeah archers are pretty OP in the early game, but fall off when the enemy has ways of sticking on you. Archers only have a move range of 3 or 4, which is smaller than the deadzone of the late-game bows. Add in things like Rampart Aura, and archers can get in pretty bad situations end-game if the enemy can survive your initial volley.

Also yeah, Deflect and high armor values later in game made them not super viable.
It sounds like that might change in this version, so I'm excited about that as well.
I kinda like the "having a balanced team" concept instead of "4 valkyries with baldur bow and divine (healing) spells, and 6 archers" strategy that could obliterate most of the PSP version.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Pickleton:

Yeah archers are pretty OP in the early game, but fall off when the enemy has ways of sticking on you. Archers only have a move range of 3 or 4, which is smaller than the deadzone of the late-game bows. Add in things like Rampart Aura, and archers can get in pretty bad situations end-game if the enemy can survive your initial volley.

Also yeah, Deflect and high armor values later in game made them not super viable.
It sounds like that might change in this version, so I'm excited about that as well.
I kinda like the "having a balanced team" concept instead of "4 valkyries with baldur bow and divine (healing) spells, and 6 archers" strategy that could obliterate most of the PSP version.

I'm watching a video of somebody playing through Hell Gate, and their archers are doing over 200 damage, potentially one shotting the enemy with every turn. Comparing this to casters and martial fighters, who are struggling to break 100 with their spells and blades.

[Pickleton]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

I'm watching a video of somebody playing through Hell Gate, and their archers are doing over 200 damage, potentially one shotting the enemy with every turn. Comparing this to casters and martial fighters, who are struggling to break 100 with their spells and blades.

Archers do pretty good damage even end game, but they're also glassy. Enemies also start to have high rank Deflect and enough armor to mitigate enough physical (particularly piercing type) damage that they don't melt quite as fast. Once the enemies reach your archers, though, the archers will melt. That is to say assuming equivalent-ish gear/stats. Nothing quite as annoying as fighting Golem type enemies with archers.

[Haddon]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by Pickleton:

Yeah archers are pretty OP in the early game, but fall off when the enemy has ways of sticking on you. Archers only have a move range of 3 or 4, which is smaller than the deadzone of the late-game bows. Add in things like Rampart Aura, and archers can get in pretty bad situations end-game if the enemy can survive your initial volley.

Also yeah, Deflect and high armor values later in game made them not super viable.
It sounds like that might change in this version, so I'm excited about that as well.
I kinda like the "having a balanced team" concept instead of "4 valkyries with baldur bow and divine (healing) spells, and 6 archers" strategy that could obliterate most of the PSP version.

I'm watching a video of somebody playing through Hell Gate, and their archers are doing over 200 damage, potentially one shotting the enemy with every turn. Comparing this to casters and martial fighters, who are struggling to break 100 with their spells and blades.

Casters can pump out the most damage in the game unless you are full aug+elemental weapon. But they are more dependent on matching type of spell against enemy resistance, so they take a bit more work to get doing the same kind of damage. Endgame though, casters can do the most damage BY FAR if they are hitting 2-3 enemies.

[Pickleton]

Originally posted by Haddon:

Casters can pump out the most damage in the game unless you are full aug+elemental weapon. But they are more dependent on matching type of spell against enemy resistance, so they take a bit more work to get doing the same kind of damage. Endgame though, casters can do the most damage BY FAR if they are hitting 2-3 enemies.

A really good advantage for casters is also their utility. Their damage spells can do whatever element, but they also can choose between crushing or piercing damage, and have other spells that buff/debuff.
Don't make the mistake I did on my first playthrough and take water for Quench, though, it's a meme. Even at high rank water augment you'll still be healing a pitiful amount of health.
Fire is infinitely better: Strengthen, Breach, Weaken and RT-reset on a single character is so ridiculously good.

[Haddon]

Originally posted by Pickleton:

Originally posted by Haddon:

Casters can pump out the most damage in the game unless you are full aug+elemental weapon. But they are more dependent on matching type of spell against enemy resistance, so they take a bit more work to get doing the same kind of damage. Endgame though, casters can do the most damage BY FAR if they are hitting 2-3 enemies.

A really good advantage for casters is also their utility. Their damage spells can do whatever element, but they also can choose between crushing or piercing damage, and have other spells that buff/debuff.
Don't make the mistake I did on my first playthrough and take water for Quench, though, it's a meme. Even at high rank water augment you'll still be healing a pitiful amount of health.
Fire is infinitely better: Strengthen, Breach, Weaken and RT-reset on a single character is so ridiculously good.

Quench is absolutely worth it, but not endgame, unless you are also running an Oracle. Cleanse and the ability to shut down fire advantage is pretty significant, IMO. Breach is rarely worth spending the RT and MP on, strengthen and weaken can come from better sources.

[Pickleton]

Originally posted by Haddon:

Quench is absolutely worth it, but not endgame, unless you are also running an Oracle. Cleanse and the ability to shut down fire advantage is pretty significant, IMO. Breach is rarely worth spending the RT and MP on, strengthen and weaken can come from better sources.

Wut? "Water is good because it shuts out fire advantage. Also fire abilities aren't good."
Sounds like your reasoning for water being good is as a "counter" to fire because fire is so good, but then you go on to say it's not any good. So which is it?

Poison is hardly ever worth it unless you're running a team that can't break the enemy's defense (purely piercing vs golems, for example). Even then, it's a pretty negligible amount of damage compared to say .... inflicting breach. Instead of 10 points of damage every turn or so, blasting their defense often means the difference between your characters doing single and double-digit damage, due to how the damage formulas work.
If you somehow get a 5-panel cross of allies hit with poison and can cast quench immediately after to remove from multiple people, it's kinda neat, but I'd much rather be using my mage offensively.
And if you need Quench for its heal, you should get a dedicated healer instead. You should never be at such a disadvantage that you need a heal that's about 1/3 the effectiveness of Major Heal (the AoE heal you get in Ch2). Doesn't even need to be a cleric, a character with a lobber and First Aid is actually an amazing addition to any team due to how OP consumables are.

[Haddon]

Originally posted by Pickleton:

Originally posted by Haddon:

Quench is absolutely worth it, but not endgame, unless you are also running an Oracle. Cleanse and the ability to shut down fire advantage is pretty significant, IMO. Breach is rarely worth spending the RT and MP on, strengthen and weaken can come from better sources.

Wut? "Water is good because it shuts out fire advantage. Also fire abilities aren't good."
Sounds like your reasoning for water being good is as a "counter" to fire because fire is so good, but then you go on to say it's not any good. So which is it?

Poison is hardly ever worth it unless you're running a team that can't break the enemy's defense (purely piercing vs golems, for example). Even then, it's a pretty negligible amount of damage compared to say .... inflicting breach. Instead of 10 points of damage every turn or so, blasting their defense often means the difference between your characters doing single and double-digit damage, due to how the damage formulas work.
If you somehow get a 5-panel cross of allies hit with poison and can cast quench immediately after to remove from multiple people, it's kinda neat, but I'd much rather be using my mage offensively.
And if you need Quench for its heal, you should get a dedicated healer instead. You should never be at such a disadvantage that you need a heal that's about 1/3 the effectiveness of Major Heal (the AoE heal you get in Ch2). Doesn't even need to be a cleric, a character with a lobber and First Aid is actually an amazing addition to any team due to how OP consumables are.

Fire abilities are decent, but the more spells of a type that is used through a battle, the stronger it gets. Interrupting that is one of the few uses of the elemental magic over just using dark. A water Shaman can pump out hella damage, and then toss out a pretty decent heal (once your water skill is like 6+) if she needs.

Dedicated healers reduce team efficiency SO MUCH. They exist for haste and lobbing shot. And getting rid of annoying statuses. You mentioned poison, which deals crap damage sure, but slows battles down a TON.
I don't use more than 1 healing consumable per character per battle. Like the original. Well, you COULD use more if you didn't equip more equipment. The only exception to this is a cleric basically acting as an alchemist.

I used fire at first. It seemed like it would be OP like it was in the original. It really wasn't. Breach and strengthen are rarely, RARELY worth using, and there are easy ways to get them in other methods. Quick is great, no doubt there.