I now understand why Modern Controls get hate

[Mikeyd1870]

I played about 30 hours in World Tour on modern and the I tried switching to classic. I tried Manon then Cammy. I discovered I can not do a half circle for the life of me so I switched to cammy. I can do all of her things semi consistently, but not as consistent as the 1 button specials that modern users have. I'm not too good at the game, so I got my ass handed to me for an hour online. I maybe won 2 matches. I came close about half the time, which proves that a lot of the modern users aren't even good if a brand new classic user is almost beating them. I wish there is a way to only queue up against classic because I had more fun against those people than the modern control users.

[Larzech]

Modern is just a crutch for poor mechanical execution, non-transferable to other fighting games.

[Lysamus]

If you're losing games, it's because your opponent is making better decisions than you are in that match. 1 button specials are faster than inputs, especially if you're not yet comfortable with inputs, but they don't win games for you. All the specials in the world do nothing if you cannot open up your opponent.

Can I offer a different perspective? You seem to want to improve your inputs based on your post and your decision to stick with Classic, so make that your goal instead of focusing too much on winning your matches. Maybe work on that 1/2 circle input if it's keeping you from picking up a loved character.

A tip that might help with that -> I'm not sure what type of controller you're using, but if it's a D-Pad, go into training mode, turn on inputs, and practice landing that Manon command throw. Watch to see if you're maybe hitting the punch button too early or if you're not completing the half circle. Usually when I botch that input, it's one of those two reasons.

[Grampire]

Along with Lysamus' great post, another good piece of advice I received on this board is to treat Modern players similar to how you would the CPU.

CPU doesn't struggle with execution - it just does the move, potentially at the right time. It's going to capitalize on your bad habits. Don't worry about how much you lose, just worry about learning when you're taking unnecessary risks while drilling on your execution.

Things will fall into place with the right attitude and a bit of perseverance, and you'll see results quickly I think.

[Raven]

I seriously don't get people like OP. You're new to classic, you're like "I totally get the hate now, I'm 100% anti-modern" (you're like the 8th-9th person I seen like this), meanwhile you're acting like you wouldn't get a royal beat down if you were playing experienced classic players the same way.

Wanting to learn classic and stick with it because its heavily recommended? Cool, I can get that. Personally, the people who recommended that I think gave doorknob recommendations, because when you look at modern controls OUTSIDE of world tour, it sneakily works in gradual classic controls in, and its not a "ruining of muscle memory" or "going out of your way to unlearn" as a lot of people early on said it is. Especially for new players, it shouldn't take hardly anytime to readjust.

The biggest thing that grinds my gears though about these posts is the fact you are intentionally choosing the traditional path of doing things hard and "classic" which involves getting beaten down A LOT during the learning process and come and rant because you're getting knocked around while learning which is perfectly normal and "classic" just like you wanted.

You can think of modern users as bad CPU players or whatever, or you can lament how much it sucks you're so close but they scrub beat you out, but frankly, there wouldn't even be half as many newbies as there are if modern wasn't around and you'd just be getting destroyed.

You're working with a bigger toolkit and doing more damage, but sure, let's blame spam because you're learning and act like that's not one of the first things noobs will do when they start playing.

The whole reason I never got into fighting games is because I *WAS* around during SF2 days. I got haduken spammed to oblivion and I never found the appeal in a game like that and never looked back. If you think that even if modern control people can't learn at least that much by switching to classic, you're sorely mistaken. It's the first thing they do and the first trial people have to learn to overcome when learning to play fighting games, that really hasn't changed.

All that modern has changed is that people skip learning how to spam and start learning how to do things like recovery, drive management, learning to punish, how to cancel, etc. a huge plethora of things. People that won't look into even that and just think the special spam is going to carry them will 100% wipe out and get stuck over time.

[Mu'Ammar of Carthus]

Just sounds like you gave in to the low IQ scrubs who keep whining about Modern controls and let them shame you out of playing online with Modern before transitioning Classic when you were good an ready.

Never played a fighting game, I played 40 matches in Modern, then the next 100 after I transitioned to Classic, and I never skipped a beat, probably even did better in Classic.
And that's with Zangief which best SPD requires a lot more than measly quarter circles.

[Thick-Six]

Originally posted by Lysamus:

If you're losing games, it's because your opponent is making better decisions than you are in that match. 1 button specials are faster than inputs, especially if you're not yet comfortable with inputs, but they don't win games for you. All the specials in the world do nothing if you cannot open up your opponent.

Can I offer a different perspective? You seem to want to improve your inputs based on your post and your decision to stick with Classic, so make that your goal instead of focusing too much on winning your matches. Maybe work on that 1/2 circle input if it's keeping you from picking up a loved character.

A tip that might help with that -> I'm not sure what type of controller you're using, but if it's a D-Pad, go into training mode, turn on inputs, and practice landing that Manon command throw. Watch to see if you're maybe hitting the punch button too early or if you're not completing the half circle. Usually when I botch that input, it's one of those two reasons.

im sorry but Modern 100% wins games for people at low levels.

Take 2 bad players and each make 20 punishable mistakes each game, and the players use their own skill to get a punish on 10 of those mistakes. A modern player is going to get better punishes MUCH more constantly because of the modern assistance, which is an advantage and will win games.

A new player on classic is probably just going to throw, but lets say he attempts a combo, i doubt any new player can do a 4k damage combo consistently without ever dropping it.

Modern however gives a free combo (probably better than any a new classic player can do) that cancels into CA if you have it, 100% of the time no risk of dropping.

Being able to consistently get high damage punishes is a skill factor in fighting games, it being given for free to only some players is not fair for a ranked environment.

Obviously this doesnt matter at higher levels where people actually know how to play, but at low level it needs different matchmaking.

[Grandson]

I find posts like this really interesting because people seem to make modern players look like they are braindead idiots because they don't want to learn the execution. How exactly are your matches going with them?

[Thick-Six]

Originally posted by Raven:

I seriously don't get people like OP. You're new to classic, you're like "I totally get the hate now, I'm 100% anti-modern" (you're like the 8th-9th person I seen like this), meanwhile you're acting like you wouldn't get a royal beat down if you were playing experienced classic players the same way.

Wanting to learn classic and stick with it because its heavily recommended? Cool, I can get that. Personally, the people who recommended that I think gave doorknob recommendations, because when you look at modern controls OUTSIDE of world tour, it sneakily works in gradual classic controls in, and its not a "ruining of muscle memory" or "going out of your way to unlearn" as a lot of people early on said it is. Especially for new players, it shouldn't take hardly anytime to readjust.

The biggest thing that grinds my gears though about these posts is the fact you are intentionally choosing the traditional path of doing things hard and "classic" which involves getting beaten down A LOT during the learning process and come and rant because you're getting knocked around while learning which is perfectly normal and "classic" just like you wanted.

You can think of modern users as bad CPU players or whatever, or you can lament how much it sucks you're so close but they scrub beat you out, but frankly, there wouldn't even be half as many newbies as there are if modern wasn't around and you'd just be getting destroyed.

You're working with a bigger toolkit and doing more damage, but sure, let's blame spam because you're learning and act like that's not one of the first things noobs will do when they start playing.

The whole reason I never got into fighting games is because I *WAS* around during SF2 days. I got haduken spammed to oblivion and I never found the appeal in a game like that and never looked back. If you think that even if modern control people can't learn at least that much by switching to classic, you're sorely mistaken. It's the first thing they do and the first trial people have to learn to overcome when learning to play fighting games, that really hasn't changed.

All that modern has changed is that people skip learning how to spam and start learning how to do things like recovery, drive management, learning to punish, how to cancel, etc. a huge plethora of things. People that won't look into even that and just think the special spam is going to carry them will 100% wipe out and get stuck over time.

Being beaten down by other classic players like we all were when we started is a lot different than being beaten down by someone just as bad as you are, but get computer assistance.

Like imagine back in the day you were playing with another person of your skill level, then their older brother comes over, takes their controller and does a 40% life combo on you, that is essentially what modern does.

Give new players who choose to play classic the option of only playing other classic players, idk how you can be against that.

[Raven]

Originally posted by Kye:

Being able to consistently get high damage punishes is a skill factor in fighting games, it being given for free to only some players is not fair for a ranked environment.

This is a fallacy. EVERYONE has this option and can utilize. Many people are "too good" for that, but that's 100% a personal issue. It's not like everyone doesn't have the same access and same right to the controls as everyone else.

[Thick-Six]

Originally posted by Raven:

Originally posted by Kye:

Being able to consistently get high damage punishes is a skill factor in fighting games, it being given for free to only some players is not fair for a ranked environment.

This is a fallacy. EVERYONE has this option and can utilize. Many people are "too good" for that, but that's 100% a personal issue. It's not like everyone doesn't have the same access and same right to the controls as everyone else.

L take.

People should be able to use the control type they have more fun using without being punished.

[Raven]

Originally posted by Kye:

[
Being beaten down by other classic players like we all were when we started is a lot different than being beaten down by someone just as bad as you are, but get computer assistance.

Like imagine back in the day you were playing with another person of your skill level, then their older brother comes over, takes their controller and does a 40% life combo on you, that is essentially what modern does.

Give new players who choose to play classic the option of only playing other classic players, idk how you can be against that.

I'm *NOT* against that. I'm against people complaining and whining that its "ruining the game". That pisses me off.

You know what, I need to take combustken's advice or something, this is a good time to walk away from these forums. People are really toxic and nihilists like they wouldn't be making the same complaints.

I'll just leave with this: Here is a guy that got top 4 at east pax (Not Nephew, the video uploader), but watch the video with the guy playing Guile. This is a "pro player" who made it to invitational tournament, and what he did 80% of the time was sonic boom spam, that literally is two buttons, same as any modern player could do (also two buttons). Actually, if you're gonna play that way, I'd suggest playing classic anyway, because then you get more damage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DU3uHhOfpFM

Originally posted by Kye:

Originally posted by Raven:

This is a fallacy. EVERYONE has this option and can utilize. Many people are "too good" for that, but that's 100% a personal issue. It's not like everyone doesn't have the same access and same right to the controls as everyone else.

L take.

People should be able to use the control type they have more fun using without being punished.

^You cannot see the hypocrisy at all, can you?

[Thick-Six]

Originally posted by Kye:

L take.

People should be able to use the control type they have more fun using without being punished.

^You cannot see the hypocrisy at all, can you? [/quote]


How is it hypocritical?

I never said Modern players shouldn't be allowed to use modern. I just dont think the people who choose modern and the people who choose classic should be in the same ranked pool at low levels.

[Lysamus]

Originally posted by Kye:

im sorry but Modern 100% wins games for people at low levels.

Take 2 bad players and each make 20 punishable mistakes each game, and the players use their own skill to get a punish on 10 of those mistakes. A modern player is going to get better punishes MUCH more constantly because of the modern assistance, which is an advantage and will win games.

A new player on classic is probably just going to throw, but lets say he attempts a combo, i doubt any new player can do a 4k damage combo consistently without ever dropping it.

Modern however gives a free combo (probably better than any a new classic player can do) that cancels into CA if you have it, 100% of the time no risk of dropping.

Being able to consistently get high damage punishes is a skill factor in fighting games, it being given for free to only some players is not fair for a ranked environment.

Obviously this doesnt matter at higher levels where people actually know how to play, but at low level it needs different matchmaking.

Different match-making splits the player base, which hurts match-making overall.

If you're making 20 punishable mistakes each game, work on making fewer of those. You will improve and win more games by doing so completely independent of your ability to execute complex combos. Combos help you win faster, but the many, many soft skills of fighting games (mind games, reads/conditioning, playing well in neutral, etc) are what ultimately determines who wins and who loses a match.

Set goals independent of "win the match." A goal like that won't help you win future games as the community develops and you stagnate, plus leaves you vulnerable to frustration when you're bodied by someone further along in their journey. I recommend instead observing your own play and seeking out opportunities to improve. Victory will come as a biproduct of your growth.

[Agoraphobic Meep]

Originally posted by Kye:

Originally posted by Raven:

I seriously don't get people like OP. You're new to classic, you're like "I totally get the hate now, I'm 100% anti-modern" (you're like the 8th-9th person I seen like this), meanwhile you're acting like you wouldn't get a royal beat down if you were playing experienced classic players the same way.

Wanting to learn classic and stick with it because its heavily recommended? Cool, I can get that. Personally, the people who recommended that I think gave doorknob recommendations, because when you look at modern controls OUTSIDE of world tour, it sneakily works in gradual classic controls in, and its not a "ruining of muscle memory" or "going out of your way to unlearn" as a lot of people early on said it is. Especially for new players, it shouldn't take hardly anytime to readjust.

The biggest thing that grinds my gears though about these posts is the fact you are intentionally choosing the traditional path of doing things hard and "classic" which involves getting beaten down A LOT during the learning process and come and rant because you're getting knocked around while learning which is perfectly normal and "classic" just like you wanted.

You can think of modern users as bad CPU players or whatever, or you can lament how much it sucks you're so close but they scrub beat you out, but frankly, there wouldn't even be half as many newbies as there are if modern wasn't around and you'd just be getting destroyed.

You're working with a bigger toolkit and doing more damage, but sure, let's blame spam because you're learning and act like that's not one of the first things noobs will do when they start playing.

The whole reason I never got into fighting games is because I *WAS* around during SF2 days. I got haduken spammed to oblivion and I never found the appeal in a game like that and never looked back. If you think that even if modern control people can't learn at least that much by switching to classic, you're sorely mistaken. It's the first thing they do and the first trial people have to learn to overcome when learning to play fighting games, that really hasn't changed.

All that modern has changed is that people skip learning how to spam and start learning how to do things like recovery, drive management, learning to punish, how to cancel, etc. a huge plethora of things. People that won't look into even that and just think the special spam is going to carry them will 100% wipe out and get stuck over time.

Being beaten down by other classic players like we all were when we started is a lot different than being beaten down by someone just as bad as you are, but get computer assistance.

Like imagine back in the day you were playing with another person of your skill level, then their older brother comes over, takes their controller and does a 40% life combo on you, that is essentially what modern does.

Give new players who choose to play classic the option of only playing other classic players, idk how you can be against that.

Why not just...learn to make less mistakes. You could literally do nothing but anti-air and jab, but if you play in a way where you aren't constantly hanging yourself like your opponent does, i promise you it doesn't matter if they play on ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ dynamic, you will rank up.

[Zapato]

I loved that OP dropped this bomb and pissed off. Must be eating popcorn while everyone is writing essays.