Is initial brigand raid OP? (beta)

[Bagpipe]

I am using the latest beta to play a bit more of manor lords and, from what i have been reading, it seems to be of the opinion that a small retinue plus one fully equipped spear militia unit should be enough to deal with the initial raid.
However, I found that my units were absolutely wiped out while barely scathing the brigands.
30 brigands vs militia spearmen and 5 retinue should surely not have such a result?

Has anybody else found this to be the case? Am I expecting too much of my peasant levies?

[jhughes]

I had 2 armies of 18 each attack me in the brigand raid. It would seem you need more than 20 spearmen and 1 small retinue (5 people).

I'm fine with that, just need more weapons for my militia or to delay or turn off brigand raids.

[Bagpipe]

Originally posted by jhughes:

I had 2 armies of 18 each attack me in the brigand raid. It would seem you need more than 20 spearmen and 1 small retinue (5 people).

I'm fine with that, just need more weapons for my militia or to delay or turn off brigand raids.

My attack was 30 brigands though i had already got my spearman unit up to the full 30+ (32? 36?)
Still didnt help though.
However I loaded a previous save and the next time it triggered it was only 20 and they spawned on top of the AI player's units so that dealt with it.

But yeah it needs reigned in a bit for the earlier raids

[9erRed]

Greetings,

If you spear Militia were on "hold ground" and not fatigued they should have been able to withstand the Brigands attack and hold.
- Add in the Retinue for a flank around move and attack from the back should have cleaned up the Brigands.

If you set your Militia on "balanced" and ran them to meet the enemy you'll lose rather quickly.
- Lack of stamina, lack of defence, fatigued, loss of cohesion. (all bad)

[Bagpipe]

They weren't fatigued but i think they were on balanced.
Initially it was 30+ spearmen vs. 10 brigands as they came in drabs the 5 retinue could not deal with 10 brigands. after they died it was maybe 20 spearmen vs. 20+ brigands out of the original 30 which is insane odds considering we stood and waited for them to arrive.

[9erRed]

Greetings,

You should have possibly placed the Retinue behind the spearmen (set to hold) and allowed them to take the brunt of the attack, then push the retinue around the spearmen for each wave.

Brigands will go for any Retinue first, but having them behind the spears forces the attackers to try to move through the spears. Not a good option for the Brigands.

See here for all the units stats, bottom of page;
https://hoodedhorse.com/wiki/Manor_Lords/Warfare

Spears have an 8 defence (and only impaling unit) against the Brigands 2 attack or 3 charge.

[Jabberwocky]

one of the mercenary companies that consists of at least 2 melee units should do the trick. you only need to have looted one bandit camp to have enough treasury money when the raid comes.

[Bagpipe]

huh, i didnt even know you got loot from the bandit camps. That is good to know though at this rate i would be cautious of raiding anything with one spear militia unit for reasons already covered. Maybe it is hit or miss how well they fare in battle but this time was definitely a miss. Was made tougher due to a fairly spartan starting region making upgrading and taxing tricky at best.
Will take it on the chin and carry on!

[Jabberwocky]

Originally posted by Bagpipe:

huh, i didnt even know you got loot from the bandit camps. That is good to know though at this rate i would be cautious of raiding anything with one spear militia unit for reasons already covered. Maybe it is hit or miss how well they fare in battle but this time was definitely a miss. Was made tougher due to a fairly spartan starting region making upgrading and taxing tricky at best.
Will take it on the chin and carry on!

You do not even need to fight the bandits in the bandit camps with your spear militia or retinue. You can simply outmaneuver the bandits, destroy and loot their camp after outrunning them, then pause the game, put the loot into your treasury, open the mercenary menu, hire a band of melee focused mercenaries - preferably one that will spawn close by - and use your militia or retinue to lure the pursuing bandits to the mercs, who will easily deal with them. Then you can use the mercs to clear any other bandit camps that might be on the map, while sending your own guys home.

I recommend hiring the "Brigands for Hire" (30 silver), the "Wayward Sons" (archers, but tanky ones that can defeat a band of brigands on their own, 45 silver) or the "Battle Brothers" (2 full units of melee fighters, each strong enough to take out a bandit camp on their own, 50 silver).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzhMGwEWBM8&t=5s

[Bagpipe]

Originally posted by Jabberwocky:

Originally posted by Bagpipe:

huh, i didnt even know you got loot from the bandit camps. That is good to know though at this rate i would be cautious of raiding anything with one spear militia unit for reasons already covered. Maybe it is hit or miss how well they fare in battle but this time was definitely a miss. Was made tougher due to a fairly spartan starting region making upgrading and taxing tricky at best.
Will take it on the chin and carry on!

You do not even need to fight the bandits in the bandit camps with your spear militia or retinue. You can simply outmaneuver the bandits, destroy and loot their camp after outrunning them, then pause the game, put the loot into your treasury, open the mercenary menu, hire a band of melee focused mercenaries - preferably one that will spawn close by - and use your militia or retinue to lure the pursuing bandits to the mercs, who will easily deal with them. Then you can use the mercs to clear any other bandit camps that might be on the map, while sending your own guys home.

I recommend hiring the "Brigands for Hire" (30 silver), the "Wayward Sons" (archers, but tanky ones that can defeat a band of brigands on their own, 45 silver) or the "Battle Brothers" (2 full units of melee fighters, each strong enough to take out a bandit camp on their own, 50 silver).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzhMGwEWBM8&t=5s

Cool, never thought of kiting in this game actually. Didnt know if the units reacted well enough to do so.
Thanks very much for the tips

[Jabberwocky]

Originally posted by Bagpipe:

Cool, never thought of kiting in this game actually. Didnt know if the units reacted well enough to do so.
Thanks very much for the tips

Kiting works exceptionally well, best with archers or hired brigands, actually.

If you need any other helpful tips for the combat oriented scenarios, check out my guide:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3354877685