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how about just 'city builder'?
Yep. As I mentioned before, arguing over definitions like that is generally pretty pointless.
I would personally prefer "Eco Sim" over "City Builder" to describe it, but that is the tag that is most commonly used for these games on Steam so that's what it is. Even the Age of Empires games are tagged as City Builders.
It's not like these tags are just up to the devs or Steam either. The devs do describe it in those terms, but the Steam tags are based on player input, and they certainly seem to agree with the devs.
probably because the majority of steam users dont even know where the term roguelike/roguelite comes from, and in turn dont actually know what it means. prior to this thread, i honestly didnt know either, and you can tell from my profile that im not exactly new to the gaming world.
I suspect that the term is so ambiguous now that people just randomly apply it.
Sure, some people might've just tagged it that based on the dev's own description rather than their own experience with the genre and its origins. But I'm not really seeing a lot of confusion or misconceptions outside of discussions like this one.
Its not like you need to have played the namesake to get an idea what it means. If you've played something like Hades before, you'll probably have at least some idea what it means just based on the knowledge that it also had those elements.
Hades.. ill have to look that up.
At what point does rogue-'lite' stop being related to rogue-anything. So if there are 10 elements to roguelike... and only two of those elements exist, is it still rogue-lite?
Neither term is really that easy to just classify by such strict criteria. Few genres are. Obviously a game like FIFA is easy to categorize as a sports game, but what if the sport is fictional? What about management games where you don't even actually play the sport yourself?
That said, if you gave me two games for your scenario to compare and the aspects could easily be pinned down like that... I would probably say yes. At least, assuming that there is an element of long-term progression somewhere in how it does the other 8 differently.
That wouldn't be precise enough, and i'm aware that the term "precise" is kinda hilarious considering the debate we are having here.
Reading just "city builder" would create the wrong impression that AoS is a game like Sim City, City Skylines or other "take your time and build your perfect city" - games.
We can certainly continue the rogue-like/ -lite debate, but the gameplay loop in AoS isn't even close to the likes of typical city builders. Hence there are more tags than just "city builder" on the game, to make it as clear as possible what kind of game AoS is.
There are no perfect ways to describe games like AoS, but" city builder + rogue-lite" comes pretty close.
Oh yeah if anything I see that complaint about the game a lot more often. I guess maybe in part because people that mainly play traditional city builders indeed don't know what roguelite means, but I've definitely seen a lot of negative reviews complain about too much rng, having to unlock buildings again etc.
Meanwhile I've yet to see a negative review complaining that it's not a roguelite because it's not a dungeon crawler rpg.
Rogue was developed for mainframe computers and distributed for free, it had absolutely zero to do with the arcade scene. It had several developers and built upon open source tech, so the tools were in fact state of the art at the time.
Rogue had permadeath by design, not for lack of content, but to make player choice meaningful. When you know a wrong move can erase all your progress, you consider the potential consequences of your decisions very carefully. This is a core aspect of roguelikes. If your progress persists, then it ain't like rogue.
And if you had actually done any research before speaking on the subject, you'd have discovered that Beneath Apple Manor and Maze Craze both from 1978, predating Rogue by two years, had randomly generated worlds.
Rogue was developed for mainframe computers and distributed for free. Arcade isn't mainframe, arcade isn't free. Can you now tell the difference? Guys it's not complicated, at least read the wikipedia article before espewing your ignorance.
Once again, Rogue isn't an arcade game.
We live in an absurd world where shellfishes are not fishes, atoms can be divided, etc. You could probably use proper Latin names of species if you wanted to impress people, but if you wanted people to understand what are you talking about then the inappropriate term "shellfish" would serve you better. Likewise, your knowledge of the history of videogames is very impressive, but if you wanted to explain to someone that "Against the Storm" has certain game elements that are also present in "Slay the Spire", "Hades" and "Peglin", then calling it a "roguelike" is your best shot.
It is like you are a journalist for political debate. You snippet things without showing the full text and then make assumptions or try to point out things that were never said.
At no point did I say that Rogue was unique in it's random world building. I said that the idea didn't really exist at that point. When you are talking a term as broad as games in the 80's across arcade, PC, and consoles 3 games out of 1000 is valid for saying it didn't really exist. Even if you found 10 more games that were similar that is still barely 1% of games so my statement is true and valid.
As for the second one. No where did I directly say that Rogue was an arcade game. I was actually pointing out the opposite since people seem to be wanting to compare Rogue to arcade games, which it was not. I was pointing out the fact that just because there is permanent death does not mean that the game is rogue-like.
In two separate posts i have explained almost exactly what the definitions of rogue-like and rogue-lite actually are.
Based on the absurd posts you keep posting up you are literally just trolling everyone here as you really have no idea what it is you are talking about and are too ignorant to understand a word when 15 people are trying to explain the definition and then you resort to being a douche bag when you can't handle the fact that you've been beaten at your own stupid game. Go troll another game. We're tired of trying to explain something that even 10 year old kids understand.
Good Day.
I think you might be older than me, and thats saying something.
FWIW: i never played Rogue lol.
Define 'silly'.