The OP Cornerstone

[marcusaddamsson]

I'm talkin' about the 'improvised tools' cornerstone that gives you 15 tools for each glade you open DURING a storm. I don't think I've ever passed on this cornerstone, and I don't think I've ever regretted it either. I will say that particular cornerstone seems really really powerful compared to virtually all other choices. Maybe the 'warehouses get carts' one is close, but it's difficult to judge how effective that is... but it sure seems like it's powerful (plus, you get to watch those 'squiddy' carts runnin' around).

I had the 'tools' cornerstone on my last seal run, and it was definitely one of the main reasons I got thru that level so well...

[Maeks]

It's good but on prestige it can be a double edged sword. On one hand it's good to have tools to open caches for free reputation. On the other hand, opening glades will make hostility a big problem in the long run. Unless of course you're playing near the Watch Tower modifier.

[MadDjinn]

It also depends on the storm issues. Getting -10 resolve for opening a glade in the storm is not a good trade for 15 tools.

[Skallagrim]

First of all, Improvised tools, just like Trade Hub, is a win condition all by itself. So yes it's definitely one of the strongest cornerstones. The 15-tools version is Storm Forged, with the regular version being 10, which is still strong but less "broken".

If you plan for it carefully, the down side of hostility increase from opening too many glades is completely irrelevant. It's not that much of a hurdle to begin with, since having access to tons tools mean you will win fast, and for fast games hostility doesn't matter at all. If you are concerned, what you can do is play your game normally, and it will naturally give you 20~30 tools. But at the same time, "prime" half a dozen or so glades (preferably dangerous or forbidden glades since they can spawn multiple caches) so that you can open them by simply cutting down one tree. Then during the storm just before you want to do resolve push, open all of them together. Having extra ~60 tools during the final year means easily 3~4 extra points to close out the game.

Edit: Obviously don't take this cornerstone if you have the -10 global resolve for opening glade during storm forest mystery.

[mostly willing]

Skallagrim eredeti hozzászólása:

First of all, Improvised tools, just like Trade Hub, is a win condition all by itself. So yes it's definitely one of the strongest cornerstones. The 15-tools version is Storm Forged, with the regular version being 10, which is still strong but less "broken".

Improvised Tools has been buffed with 1.6. now the base version is 15 tools per glade and stormforged is 24 per

marcusaddamsson eredeti hozzászólása:

Maybe the 'warehouses get carts' one is close, but it's difficult to judge how effective that is... but it sure seems like it's powerful

carts cornerstones are unpickable garbage. it's hard to judge how effective it is cause it doesn't do anything. there's 0 reason to pick it over 10 amber

[MadDjinn]

mostly willing eredeti hozzászólása:

marcusaddamsson eredeti hozzászólása:

Maybe the 'warehouses get carts' one is close, but it's difficult to judge how effective that is... but it sure seems like it's powerful

carts cornerstones are unpickable garbage. it's hard to judge how effective it is cause it doesn't do anything. there's 0 reason to pick it over 10 amber

The cart acts as a hauler, so it's equivalently effective as one of those. Though, I do see the carts range further out than I'd expect, so they might not be constrained properly. It also depends on how many warehouses you plan on using.

I primarily use that cornerstone when I have a lot of farms or increased building storage. Production people won't deliver unless they run out of space, so haulers are good for keeping them in the production cycle.

[arjensmit79]

Indeed it is one of the 2 most powerful cornerstones in the game. Why it was buffed beats me. It was already one of the 2 most powerful cornerstones before.

The other 1 of 2 is btw the cornerstone that gives 5 resolve for 3 minutes on opening a glade.

[MadDjinn]

The one where wood cutters get reduced hostility (or stormforged to 0 hostility) is up there as well.

[mostly willing]

MadDjinn eredeti hozzászólása:

The cart acts as a hauler, so it's equivalently effective as one of those.

which is why it's unpickable garbage. haulers are a waste of labor

with hindsight, haulers and the whole logistics system was a mistake Eremite wasted a month of devtime on, all to appeal to city builder fans who didn't get AtS

[arjensmit79]

MadDjinn eredeti hozzászólása:

The one where wood cutters get reduced hostility (or stormforged to 0 hostility) is up there as well.

Eh, that is in no way ever worth its 10 ambers. Its down there with the most useless cornerstones in the game. You know you can just take woodcutters of the job during storm right ?

[el Darkness]

arjensmit79 eredeti hozzászólása:

Eh, that is in no way ever worth its 10 ambers. Its down there with the most useless cornerstones in the game. You know you can just take woodcutters of the job during storm right ?

Will it hold some value if comboed with other effects granting benefits for cutting trees during storm? Or are they all trash and not worth considering?

I mean if someone likes experimenting in a chill game, they can work, but I am asking for challenging games.

[MadDjinn]

arjensmit79 eredeti hozzászólása:

MadDjinn eredeti hozzászólása:

The one where wood cutters get reduced hostility (or stormforged to 0 hostility) is up there as well.

Eh, that is in no way ever worth its 10 ambers. Its down there with the most useless cornerstones in the game. You know you can just take woodcutters of the job during storm right ?

Let's see...
- chopping wood in every season thereby not having a choke on one of you most important resources. (this also lets you back off on the number of wood cutters to use villagers elsewhere)
- Not increasing the hostility levels so that Resolve-> Reputation can happen longer (or sooner).
- mass planking because there's no timed stoppage of the input; thereby speeding up the building timeline
- mass tree secondary resource increase (especially when haulers are added for locations far from a warehouse)
- ability to expand to 5+ wood cutting groups and prepare lots of glades to be opened as needed.


but yeah, you're right. That's totally not worth the 10 amber.

[Skallagrim]

You might want to take the loss here. It's definitely not worth 10 amber.

[MadDjinn]

Skallagrim eredeti hozzászólása:

You might want to take the loss here. It's definitely not worth 10 amber.

A lot of the stuff in the game is situational. There are a few cornerstones I'll end up ignoring, but this isn't one of those.

I just used it in a game to mass chop my way to 100 copper for the timed order (combined with the 1 copper per 5 wood cornerstone). Keeping the hostility down helped me not burn wood to get wood. The parts and skewers from the order alone were worth more than 10 amber.

To me that was worth it. 10 amber at that point wouldn't have gotten me anything since I already had amber for opening new glades.

[Skallagrim]

One thing for sure there are definitely niche enough situation that could make anything in AtS be good for those specific situation. Doesn't mean as a whole it's good.

I've had Bone Tools giving me 57 tools that lead to winning Ancient Battleground + Omninous Presence modifiers on P10 QHT in 5 years. Doesn't mean it's a good cornerstone / worth more than 10 amber in just about every other situation.

[arjensmit79]

el Darkness eredeti hozzászólása:

arjensmit79 eredeti hozzászólása:

Eh, that is in no way ever worth its 10 ambers. Its down there with the most useless cornerstones in the game. You know you can just take woodcutters of the job during storm right ?

Will it hold some value if comboed with other effects granting benefits for cutting trees during storm? Or are they all trash and not worth considering?

I mean if someone likes experimenting in a chill game, they can work, but I am asking for challenging games.

Maybe if you're gonna play really long games like for doing certain achievements you could find fun combinations. But really in normal games where you win as fast and efficient as possible, there isn't really any combining of cornerstones unless they are good enough to pick by themselves. You can just go pick trash cornerstones in year 1-2 hoping to get that key combination on year 3-4 it will just be way to rare and the 10 amber way too useful.

And mad djin: An important plan to win faster is to minimize your need for wood alltogether. I rarely cut any wood at all past year 1. And if i do, no problem doing it outside of storm season.