Frogs and Fishing Huts

[Valar Morghulis]

Why are frogs not getting a faction bonus in fishing huts? They get the comfortable bonus with rainwater. We are actually fishing in rainwater (?), so why is there no bonus?

[TowerWizard]

Balance reasons.

[Valar Morghulis]

Originally posted by TowerWizard:

Balance reasons.

Care to explain? Every food gathering building has a faction that gives a bonus. How would this be a balancing issue?

Even if it wasn't the 10% double buff, the comfort buff would only last as long as there are ponds to fish from. So it wouldn't even be a permanent +5 resolve buff for 3 frogs.

[arjensmit79]

I do agree it is kinda odd.
Frogs should definitely have affinity with ponds. Really seems like a no brainer just as much as beavers being good at cutting trees.

[mostly willing]

easily spammable buildings with worker slots can't have a comfort spec. fishing huts are the most spammable building in the game, so it doesn't have a comfort spec

[TowerWizard]

Originally posted by Valar Morghulis:

Originally posted by TowerWizard:

Balance reasons.

Care to explain? Every food gathering building has a faction that gives a bonus. How would this be a balancing issue?

Even if it wasn't the 10% double buff, the comfort buff would only last as long as there are ponds to fish from. So it wouldn't even be a permanent +5 resolve buff for 3 frogs.

They have great bonuses already. They are all about their houses, which are the best of any race.

1. They are proficient in gettining stone and clay.
2. They are proficient in turning stone or clay into bricks (with the right blueprint).
3. Bricks are used to build their houses, and to upgrade those houses.
4. Water is also needed to upgrade their houses, and they get bonus resolve from working in water collectors. Water is freely available, and unlimited in quantity.
5. Get to house upgrade level 3, and get 1 free building materials every Drizzle for every Frog resident.

On top of that, they have the best fire keeper bonus for the early game: getting more settlers, so you can build your town faster, and generate more resolve, and thus win faster.

They also like Brawling, so the best embark delivery line gets even better. And finding a ruin early is like getting a bonus blueprint. And, they have the longest break interval of any race, meaning they get more work done and need less food and services than the other race.

Having them get even more bonuses on top of this would make them even more inbalanced. They are already easily a top 3 race in my book, competing with Harpies and Foxes.

[{sBc} Bane5]

Originally posted by mostly willing:

easily spammable buildings with worker slots can't have a comfort spec. fishing huts are the most spammable building in the game, so it doesn't have a comfort spec

You can already spam rainwater collectors for easy frog resolve points.

I don't think fishing huts would be a big leap over that. (still limited by machine parts)

----

But even if that's too convenient, the advanced fishing hut blueprint (not the basic) could at least grant the bonus.

[TowerWizard]

Originally posted by mostly willing:

easily spammable buildings with worker slots can't have a comfort spec. fishing huts are the most spammable building in the game, so it doesn't have a comfort spec

Any building that uses Parts or Wildfire Essence is not spammable, because you cannot produce those resources. If you are desperate for resolve, get a blueprint for a comfort building not using parts, and spam those, or use rainpunk.

[Nordil(Hun)]

Originally posted by TowerWizard:

Originally posted by mostly willing:

easily spammable buildings with worker slots can't have a comfort spec. fishing huts are the most spammable building in the game, so it doesn't have a comfort spec

Any building that uses Parts or Wildfire Essence is not spammable, because you cannot produce those resources. If you are desperate for resolve, get a blueprint for a comfort building not using parts, and spam those, or use rainpunk.

With cornerstone or the rainpunk foundry parts are produceble.
Wildfire essence is a bit more tricky.
I won quite a few games because i went for parts production or obtaining them via other methods(usually trade:P).

[mostly willing]

Originally posted by TowerWizard:

Any building that uses Parts or Wildfire Essence is not spammable, because you cannot produce those resources. If you are desperate for resolve, get a blueprint for a comfort building not using parts, and spam those, or use rainpunk.

with 3 worker slots and more than 15 parts left after accounting for 2 woodcutters + blight post at full citadel before any parts you get from orders, 9 comfort worker slots in basically any scenario. that's as spammable as it gets. fishing huts would be the most effective way of spending your parts in any scenario that doesn't involve a lot of gathering. AND it promotes garbage gameplay

Originally posted by {sBc} Bane5:

You can already spam rainwater collectors for easy frog resolve points.

I don't think fishing huts would be a big leap over that. (still limited by machine parts)

rain collectors require planks, which involve at least some processing compared to fishing huts (2 cycles is at least 2 minutes of plank production in a crude workstation on top of chopping wood). they also have 1 fewer slots, which makes them considerably weaker compared to a potential rainwater spec fishing hut for raising resolve

still, I do agree that fishing hut rainwater spec is not a big leap over rain collectors. Eremite probably settled on rain collector as the lowest bar for a comfort spec, at some point

[Valar Morghulis]

Hmm maybe I'm just bad at the game or playing off meta, but I'm always automating my rain collectors and I never had a problem with clay, stone or bricks if they are not gathered by frogs.

Imo the other factions are like 10 times better at gathering. You could also fix the resolve problem by giving the resolve bonus only as long as a fishable pond is in range and the fishing hut is set to active. So you'd lose the resolve bonus as soon as the fishing is down.

[TowerWizard]

Originally posted by Valar Morghulis:

H I'm always automating my rain collectors

You are automating your geysers, not your rain collectors.

[Valar Morghulis]

Originally posted by TowerWizard:

You are automating your geysers, not your rain collectors.

You are correct. I'm usally not even using rain collectors lol. I was mistaken.

[TowerWizard]

You are also right, the game can be played in many ways with many strategies, many of which can lead to very successful outcomes. Leaning into trade with beavers, for example, or gathering with lizards and a Clan Hall and turning the produce into more complex food than you know what to do with.

What I was saying was that Frogs have a clear theme, where everything fits together: buildings and building materials. If you lean into that, you can get an obcene amount of buildning materials, without even upgrading packs of goods. I produced hundreds of packs of building materials each year, from just two frogs getting clay, two-three frogs making bricks (with rainwater boost to production) and two-three frogs making bricks into building materials (with the rainwater boost). With upgraded frog houses and a lot of frogs, I had +69+50 % production speed and +69+25 % chance to double production for building materials, meaning (with the citadel upgrades) that every very fast production cycle doubled its results. Also the upgraded houses gave me a large number of packs pf building materials every Drizzle. I could clean out traders inventories (at P2) using my hundreds of packs of building materials, including all perks and blueprints. If I had had a clay pit, I wouldn't have needed to open more glades to keep the clay flowing either. Luckily I had a Temple, so hostility was not a problem.

Anyway, if you don't lean into houses, house upgrades, or building materials, then frogs lose a lot of value, but they are still the workoholics of the races, due to having the longest break interval.

[daflame]

Originally posted by TowerWizard:

What I was saying was that Frogs have a clear theme, where everything fits together: buildings and building materials. If you lean into that, you can get an obcene amount of buildning materials, without even upgrading packs of goods. I produced hundreds of packs of building materials each year, from just two frogs getting clay, two-three frogs making bricks (with rainwater boost to production) and two-three frogs making bricks into building materials (with the rainwater boost).

Now I understand why they "re-balanced" the game around packs of building materials, including it appearing in production buildings that never had it before. They literally expect everyone to do this, and it just doesn't add up when you're there because it is thematically really random for frogs to do this.

[MadArtillery]

Originally posted by TowerWizard:

You are also right, the game can be played in many ways with many strategies, many of which can lead to very successful outcomes. Leaning into trade with beavers, for example, or gathering with lizards and a Clan Hall and turning the produce into more complex food than you know what to do with.

What I was saying was that Frogs have a clear theme, where everything fits together: buildings and building materials. If you lean into that, you can get an obcene amount of buildning materials, without even upgrading packs of goods. I produced hundreds of packs of building materials each year, from just two frogs getting clay, two-three frogs making bricks (with rainwater boost to production) and two-three frogs making bricks into building materials (with the rainwater boost). With upgraded frog houses and a lot of frogs, I had +69+50 % production speed and +69+25 % chance to double production for building materials, meaning (with the citadel upgrades) that every very fast production cycle doubled its results. Also the upgraded houses gave me a large number of packs pf building materials every Drizzle. I could clean out traders inventories (at P2) using my hundreds of packs of building materials, including all perks and blueprints. If I had had a clay pit, I wouldn't have needed to open more glades to keep the clay flowing either. Luckily I had a Temple, so hostility was not a problem.

Anyway, if you don't lean into houses, house upgrades, or building materials, then frogs lose a lot of value, but they are still the workoholics of the races, due to having the longest break interval.

I hope to some day see these mysterious upgradable homes. 100 hours in and past all the story related seals, feeling like a very completed game for the most part, and yet I've still never unlocked upgradable homes. Perhaps Frogs would be more interesting if this mystery mechanic was actually present from unlocking them, I know the store page sure tried to make a big deal about their homes.