Against the Storm

Against the Storm

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Alukat Jun 26, 2024 @ 7:51am
building pick rolls
how does it work? when you're a long time in a map, then you can only pick higher building?

was in year 8 or 9 and after 15 attempts of rerolling still haven't had the trappers camp show up. Guild halls etc. however showed up over and over again...
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Showing 1-15 of 20 comments
Samseng Yik Jun 26, 2024 @ 8:49am 
Pure random.
The game is not about getting dream plan and victory.
Is about using the option you get provided and still win
That Fish Guy Jun 26, 2024 @ 9:09am 
I don't disagree with samseng often, but I will this time. I doubt it's random, there's a table or something it's pulling from, because you don't get the big upgrades until later, and you definitely stop seeing camps (at least with any% above a couple) after a certain point. What those points are, and how what they're based on I don't have any knowledge of.
arjensmit79 Jun 26, 2024 @ 10:35am 
It is not pure random.

I unfortunately don't know the exact details. There's people around here that know more about it than i do, so lets hope they come tell us.
What i do know:

-The early cornerstones are programmed to be likely to give you food sources. At least 1 for certain i believe.

-The buildings are in some sort of categories, and the blueprint you get is from a selection of those categories. I once read someone tried reloading and rerolling many times and concluded on a particular pick, there were only like a dozen buildings available for him to get.

I doubt its based on time, more likely on how many picks you have had so far. But i aint certain.
Last edited by arjensmit79; Jun 26, 2024 @ 10:37am
mostly willing Jun 26, 2024 @ 11:00am 
here's what I wrote last time on this topic. as far as I know how long you are in a settlement has 0 influence on bps presented
there are blueprint collections/packs - bps united by a vague theme. some are straightforward, like camps&farms, building mats, and service buildings. most of the other collections are random assortments of production buildings - it's hard to tell what the supposed theme is

rerolls are always random, don't follow any collections

in any bp choice, there's at least 1 wildcard
4 BP picks -> 3 picks from a collection and 1 random blueprint
3 BP picks -> 2 picks from a pack and 1 random blueprint
2 BP picks -> 1 pick from a pack and 1 random blueprint
1 BP pick -> 1 random bp

there is some weighting at play, too. here are some of the rules for bps:
camps&farms are guaranteed by pick 5
building mats (includes 2* bps and kiln) are guaranteed by pick 5
service buildings won't show up before pick 6
service building bps can still show up from the wildcard
service buildings share collections with species housing bps
Nordil(Hun) Jun 26, 2024 @ 12:45pm 
Originally posted by a mostly willing son:
here's what I wrote last time on this topic. as far as I know how long you are in a settlement has 0 influence on bps presented
there are blueprint collections/packs - bps united by a vague theme. some are straightforward, like camps&farms, building mats, and service buildings. most of the other collections are random assortments of production buildings - it's hard to tell what the supposed theme is

rerolls are always random, don't follow any collections

in any bp choice, there's at least 1 wildcard
4 BP picks -> 3 picks from a collection and 1 random blueprint
3 BP picks -> 2 picks from a pack and 1 random blueprint
2 BP picks -> 1 pick from a pack and 1 random blueprint
1 BP pick -> 1 random bp

there is some weighting at play, too. here are some of the rules for bps:
camps&farms are guaranteed by pick 5
building mats (includes 2* bps and kiln) are guaranteed by pick 5
service buildings won't show up before pick 6
service building bps can still show up from the wildcard
service buildings share collections with species housing bps

All of the below statements are my own experience and on P16 and higher.(own on GOG since EA)

Camps and farms are sadly NOT guaranteed by pick 5.
I had 2 or 3 days ago a run where not a single camp or farm was among the blueprints.
Not even greenhouse. And not even the traders sold them.
Basicly i could not produce enough food this way. (With the early too many farm fields i got a bit overjoyed and allowed a larger population than usual.)

It can happen with all the plank producing buildings as well. (And not getting any cornerstone neither.)-> I lost a game because i could not really keep up with the plank demand. No plank prod boosting cornerstone, no planks in the chests. The traders only sold 3 times out of the 20-24 times the appeared. (300% boost to traders) I bought them all up, but again could not keep up.

There are also maps where the surrounding glades lack food nodes. (Currently i have one where farm fields are abudant, but only 2 large roots 5 small herb nodes and 2 egg nodes are in all the glades nearby. That is 4 dangerous, and 6 small glades)
At other times there are no mines or no stone/clay etc.

edit: yes sometimes i checksavescum
Last edited by Nordil(Hun); Jun 26, 2024 @ 12:46pm
mostly willing Jun 26, 2024 @ 1:25pm 
Originally posted by Nordil(Hun):
It can happen with all the plank producing buildings as well.
there was nothing in what I said about a plank producing collection

Originally posted by Nordil(Hun):
Camps and farms are sadly NOT guaranteed by pick 5.
ok here are 10 games worth of bp sets I just got in experimental. interpret that as you will

"pickedSets": [
"BlueprintCollection Set VI",
"BlueprintCollection Food Camps & Farms I",
"BlueprintCollection Basic Production",
"BlueprintCollection Set V",
"BlueprintCollection Food Camps & Farms II",
"BlueprintCollection Institutions & Housing I",
"BlueprintCollection Set IV",
"BlueprintCollection Set I",
"BlueprintCollection Set VII",
"BlueprintCollection Institutions & Housing II",
"BlueprintCollection Set II",
"BlueprintCollection _Master Collection"
],

"pickedSets": [
"BlueprintCollection Basic Production",
"BlueprintCollection Food Camps & Farms I",
"BlueprintCollection Set IV",
"BlueprintCollection Food Camps & Farms II",
"BlueprintCollection Set VII",
"BlueprintCollection Institutions & Housing I",
"BlueprintCollection Set V",
"BlueprintCollection Set II",
"BlueprintCollection Set I",
"BlueprintCollection Institutions & Housing II",
"BlueprintCollection Set VI",
"BlueprintCollection _Master Collection"
],

"pickedSets": [
"BlueprintCollection Food Camps & Farms I",
"BlueprintCollection Basic Production",
"BlueprintCollection Set II",
"BlueprintCollection Food Camps & Farms II",
"BlueprintCollection Set VI",
"BlueprintCollection Institutions & Housing I",
"BlueprintCollection Set V",
"BlueprintCollection Set VII",
"BlueprintCollection Set I",
"BlueprintCollection Institutions & Housing II",
"BlueprintCollection Set III",
"BlueprintCollection _Master Collection"
],

"pickedSets": [
"BlueprintCollection Food Camps & Farms I",
"BlueprintCollection Basic Production",
"BlueprintCollection Set V",
"BlueprintCollection Set II",
"BlueprintCollection Food Camps & Farms II",
"BlueprintCollection Set III",
"BlueprintCollection Institutions & Housing I",
"BlueprintCollection Set I",
"BlueprintCollection Set IV",
"BlueprintCollection Institutions & Housing II",
"BlueprintCollection Set VII",
"BlueprintCollection _Master Collection"
],

"pickedSets": [
"BlueprintCollection Set III",
"BlueprintCollection Food Camps & Farms I",
"BlueprintCollection Basic Production",
"BlueprintCollection Set VI",
"BlueprintCollection Food Camps & Farms II",
"BlueprintCollection Institutions & Housing I",
"BlueprintCollection Set VII",
"BlueprintCollection Set IV",
"BlueprintCollection Set I",
"BlueprintCollection Set V",
"BlueprintCollection _Master Collection",
"BlueprintCollection _Master Collection"
],

"pickedSets": [
"BlueprintCollection Set IV",
"BlueprintCollection Basic Production",
"BlueprintCollection Food Camps & Farms I",
"BlueprintCollection Food Camps & Farms II",
"BlueprintCollection Set V",
"BlueprintCollection Set VI",
"BlueprintCollection Set II",
"BlueprintCollection Set I",
"BlueprintCollection Set III",
"BlueprintCollection Institutions & Housing I",
"BlueprintCollection Institutions & Housing II",
"BlueprintCollection _Master Collection"
],

"pickedSets": [
"BlueprintCollection Basic Production",
"BlueprintCollection Food Camps & Farms I",
"BlueprintCollection Set III",
"BlueprintCollection Set VII",
"BlueprintCollection Set II",
"BlueprintCollection Institutions & Housing I",
"BlueprintCollection Food Camps & Farms II",
"BlueprintCollection Set V",
"BlueprintCollection Set I",
"BlueprintCollection Institutions & Housing II",
"BlueprintCollection Set IV",
"BlueprintCollection _Master Collection"
],

"pickedSets": [
"BlueprintCollection Set III",
"BlueprintCollection Basic Production",
"BlueprintCollection Set VI",
"BlueprintCollection Food Camps & Farms I",
"BlueprintCollection Food Camps & Farms II",
"BlueprintCollection Institutions & Housing I",
"BlueprintCollection Set VII",
"BlueprintCollection Set II",
"BlueprintCollection Set I",
"BlueprintCollection Institutions & Housing II",
"BlueprintCollection Set V",
"BlueprintCollection _Master Collection"
],

"pickedSets": [
"BlueprintCollection Set VI",
"BlueprintCollection Set IV",
"BlueprintCollection Set I",
"BlueprintCollection Set V",
"BlueprintCollection Food Camps & Farms I",
"BlueprintCollection Institutions & Housing I",
"BlueprintCollection Food Camps & Farms II",
"BlueprintCollection Set III",
"BlueprintCollection Set II",
"BlueprintCollection Institutions & Housing II",
"BlueprintCollection _Master Collection",
"BlueprintCollection _Master Collection"
],

"pickedSets": [
"BlueprintCollection Basic Production",
"BlueprintCollection Food Camps & Farms I",
"BlueprintCollection Set I",
"BlueprintCollection Food Camps & Farms II",
"BlueprintCollection Set II",
"BlueprintCollection Institutions & Housing I",
"BlueprintCollection Set VII",
"BlueprintCollection Set III",
"BlueprintCollection Set IV",
"BlueprintCollection Institutions & Housing II",
"BlueprintCollection Set VI",
"BlueprintCollection _Master Collection"
],

shoutout to Jhaz who shared all of this info

don't ask me what master collection is. I don't know and don't care enough to figure it out
Samseng Yik Jun 26, 2024 @ 6:29pm 
Oh god, I never really imagine the game behind mechanic work like this !
This is what I dislike, influencing the random with weight bias against certain option
Last edited by Samseng Yik; Jun 26, 2024 @ 6:29pm
kory Jun 26, 2024 @ 6:51pm 
Originally posted by Samseng Yik:
Oh god, I never really imagine the game behind mechanic work like this !
This is what I dislike, influencing the random with weight bias against certain option
You dont like that the game has some standards of balance to make sure you get a reasonable selection of opening picks?
Now, you might be having the thought "I always worked just fine with random picks", but I will say, you did not, they have always worked like this, and you have always thought it was good.
arjensmit79 Jun 26, 2024 @ 7:29pm 
I think both could be satisfied.

I totally feel what samseng sais. Often you have games where what you see is a random pick out of an x number of options. This gives the suggestion all options have equal chance. It sucks if that is not the case and its not shown. Of course in the age of lootboxes we have all learned not to expect equal chances when it seems you would. But that still sucks and there are different solutions. for example by simply having 2 rolls and you having to luck out on both rolls to get the really rare option. That sort of stuff. You can implement chances and different chances for different things perfectly well without hiding it.

I would like it if AtS could make this transparent. I don't know if its feasible with the way it is, maybe theres an algoritm with 20 variables and 300 lines of code behind it, that can't be explained to the player. Maybe its pretty simple and they could make it transparent simply by showing the pool of blueprints in the screen or something, or the different collections that can be chosen and which collection the blueprints you got are from. Something like that. Not hugely important, but i think it would make samseng happy and me too :)

But it is obvious that in AtS, we can't have equal chances for every blueprint without accepting that RNG would simply make a percentage of games unwinnable.
Last edited by arjensmit79; Jun 26, 2024 @ 7:43pm
Samseng Yik Jun 26, 2024 @ 7:43pm 
Ah yes true. Now I see the reason.
OK I agree true random is not best case here.
I always thought cornerstone has weight control, never expect blueprint too.
Now I enlightened again and happy how developer implemented this.

Like what upstair mentioned, I just hope in game there is an explanation about this.
Even better, do it like those "loot box freemium games" and show the exact percentage of each things
Last edited by Samseng Yik; Jun 26, 2024 @ 7:44pm
arjensmit79 Jun 26, 2024 @ 7:54pm 
Reason i would like that transparancy is because the knowledge could surely affect my decision making.

You look at resources, cornerstones and blueprints and you make picks. Often you may pick parts of a production chain in hopes of completing that production chain later.

Now i have a rough idea of what buildings are in the game and how many buildings contain the recipe i need, or i could look up that info. But apearently you can't get every building, only the ones that fit the races you have in your game. I don't know which buildings are limited like that. And on top of that, the randomness isn't true random. So i am actually gambling to find a recipe later without having a clue what my chances are to get it.
Last edited by arjensmit79; Jun 26, 2024 @ 7:56pm
kory Jun 26, 2024 @ 9:08pm 
Originally posted by arjensmit79:
Reason i would like that transparancy is because the knowledge could surely affect my decision making.

You look at resources, cornerstones and blueprints and you make picks. Often you may pick parts of a production chain in hopes of completing that production chain later.

Now i have a rough idea of what buildings are in the game and how many buildings contain the recipe i need, or i could look up that info. But apearently you can't get every building, only the ones that fit the races you have in your game. I don't know which buildings are limited like that. And on top of that, the randomness isn't true random. So i am actually gambling to find a recipe later without having a clue what my chances are to get it.
Yes, it would be nice if the encyclopedia did have the information. Actually, I'm not sure it doesn't, there is a huge amount of info in there, but I think this isn't there.
Nordil(Hun) Jun 26, 2024 @ 11:46pm 
Originally posted by a mostly willing son:
Originally posted by Nordil(Hun):
It can happen with all the plank producing buildings as well.
there was nothing in what I said about a plank producing collection

Originally posted by Nordil(Hun):
Camps and farms are sadly NOT guaranteed by pick 5.
ok here are 10 games worth of bp sets I just got in experimental. interpret that as you will

shoutout to Jhaz who shared all of this info

don't ask me what master collection is. I don't know and don't care enough to figure it out

I just shared my experience. I think what happens/can happen is that if you load in a game you are in, the set might change. Or something else is behind it not sure.(Although if i knew what each collection of the BP "sets" contain i probably could come up with some better ideas. But i am lazy to code dive:) )

About plank producing i just shared my experience, because it is beside food production, the most crucial resource as well, imho.




Originally posted by arjensmit79:

But apearently you can't get every building, only the ones that fit the races you have in your game. I don't know which buildings are limited like that. And on top of that, the randomness isn't true random.

Care to elaborate on this?
Do you mean, that certain building blueprints can only come up, if you have the appropriate race in the village you are playing? Not all, but some?
arjensmit79 Jun 27, 2024 @ 12:39am 
Originally posted by Nordil(Hun):
Care to elaborate on this?
Do you mean, that certain building blueprints can only come up, if you have the appropriate race in the village you are playing? Not all, but some?

Exactly.

Some buildings can appear in every game, while others are tied to a race and only appear in games where you have that race.
Samseng Yik Jun 27, 2024 @ 12:55am 
Example, there are service buildings which BOTH SERVICE enjoyed by a same race.
Then this service building WILL NOT APPEAR if you don't have this race.
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Date Posted: Jun 26, 2024 @ 7:51am
Posts: 20