Tier of Hostility Reduction Technique

[Samseng Yik]

As you gain more and more experience, I think you will notice how important is hostility reduction (Or global resolve gain ).

I want to check with you all, what hostility reduction things are easy pick for you?
And which do you think is really better than others ?

In my opinions, these are some good one.
1) 40 Hostility reduction per LV 2 hearth
Very very easy and don't need deliberate setup. It is sort of "something I will do for sure" even without this cornerstone.
Since I always build 2nd hearth around year 4 or 5. So this is easy 80 reduction for me without different plan

2) 50 Hostility reduction book
Just buy (or rob) from vendor, not very expensive, can be game changer during storm.

3) 15 Hostility reduction per crate open/send
Unless you don't get stone, this is also as easy as (1). Sane player will surely interact with at least 3 crate per settlement.

4) Religion fulfill reduce Hostility
Better for human, Lizard threshold increase too much per reputation.
Bonus point if you use Monastery for another 100 reduction, and beer for human.

Any other technique or good combo someone found ?
I hope I can use this to discover new knowledge

[Jay Ren]

This is something that I /really/ didn't realise was going to be so huge from the tutorial~

My personal favourite, for the early players: Not opening a pile of unused glades in the first place.
And I guess.... Doing more woodcutting in the early game storms where you're not going to miss that global resolve?
And I guess Playing faster in general.

One of my early settlements was SUCH a slog because I was always so close to reputation thresholds and then I pushed myself over just cutting tress for spac's sake XD

["Donut☆]

One cornerstone I'm missing in your list is Baptism of Fire.

Every 3 burnt Blightrot Cysts lowers Hostility by -10.
I'd almost put that one on top of the list.

[Samseng Yik]

Originally posted by "Donut☆:

One cornerstone I'm missing in your list is Baptism of Fire.

Every 3 burnt Blightrot Cysts lowers Hostility by -10.
I'd almost put that one on top of the list.

Oh yes, this is very good for high prestige gameplay.
Even better if pair with "water consumption at engine reduce hostility" cornerstone

[Samseng Yik]

Originally posted by OmegaJasam _ DGD _:

This is something that I /really/ didn't realise was going to be so huge from the tutorial~

My personal favourite, for the early players: Not opening a pile of unused glades in the first place.
And I guess.... Doing more woodcutting in the early game storms where you're not going to miss that global resolve?
And I guess Playing faster in general.

One of my early settlements was SUCH a slog because I was always so close to reputation thresholds and then I pushed myself over just cutting tress for spac's sake XD

Ah yes, you definitely sounds like new player.
The resolve is only important if
1) go to negative
2) can reach generation threshold (through race favor also ok)

If you can run woodcutting during storm without any dangerous. Just do it as usual.
And "get the wood in early game for late game high hostility reserve"

This topic mainly about Hostility reduction that can reduce other than remove woodworker (because wood chopper never reduce hostility, they just increase it)

["Donut☆]

Another 2 very strong ones that just came to mind is 'Protected trade' (-10 hostility for every 30 amber worth of goods sold).

A bit more situational: 'calming the forest' (-40 hostility for every empathy decision). That one is harder to trigger but it's retroactive. Even just -40 makes a lot of difference in high prestige, it's almost a 'free year'.

I'm not a fan of ranking/tier lists because I choose stuff based on my situation. But I must say, cornerstones that cause hostility reduction in general is in a lot of situations a solid pick.

[不思議種]

Impatience! Calling a trader or two before the storm and holding back on finishing orders until after the storm. The prestige level where reputation only takes away 0.5 impatience almost makes the game easier.

Being careful with when you accept newcomers also helps.

[hardy_conrad]

Yeah I tried a prestige level, once, and got wrecked by the hostility. Obviously it's doable but I clearly need to think a bit deeper on the subject. For reducing hostility by crates don't you need a cornerstone though?

[arjensmit79]

Ok long story that OP wasn't really asking about, but i got writing and well... Its maybe useful for some:

Lets start with the basics of the game mechanics. Indeed impatience is a main factor in hostility management. It is however very much a double edged sword.

If you are going to delay turning in orders, you will slow yourself down because the rewards for the orders are almost always useful in some way as are the blueprints you get from the reputation points. Therefore i very rarely delay turning in orders for long. I just try to do it a little for fine tuning. If during a storm, i am just on the edge of going to a higher hostility level that is problematic, you can make choises like "do i delay turning in this order, or do i delay accepting newcomers?". The answer to that question is of course entirely situational. We are talking about seconds and minutes though. Not about keeping all those orders hanging until end game. Optimization would of course be to keep them waiting while knowing exactly what you get from them, but that is a level of micromanagement and oversight that i find cumbersome. Every season you look at available trade routes for example, you'd have to check your order rewards and see if any should be turned in because you can sell the rewards. And surely there would be much more hastle to basically having resources at your disposal but only taking them when you can actually use them. This would probably push a 3 hour game towards a 5 hour game and still leave much opportunity for error.

The other people say is "call in traders to increase hostility". This is something i do to a degree, but i try to limit it. Traders on call are in immensely important resource. I would say they are even my default victory condition as i use them to buy all the advanced foods and service goods for my victory resolve push. I want to keep them for late game. Also, as long as i don't call them, they come at the perfect timing: the exact start of the year. As soon as i start calling them, i screw up their timing. And of course, the first 2 calls do very little, its the 3th and 4th call that really give significant impatience. But then you also truly cannot call any more of them. So yes, this is an emergency measure. Just like calling traders to solve other stuff in early-mid game is an emergency measure. Its available. Use it when needed, but don't default to it.

Other random sources of impatience growth (like triggering a glade event) can to an extend be seen as a boon. I don't want too much of it as it will limit the amount of traders i can call, but small amounts are fine. After all, its mostly about the question "can i call a 4th trader for 4 hostility or not" Having 1 fewer trader calls in exchange for 4 early hostility can be quite fine. Taking 4 extra hostility is however a bit much to actively be hoping for though because the ability to call that trader was never a certainty anyway. Espescially not on higher levels. But 2 points, yes please.

Combining these factors: If you are lucky enough to be able to finish many orders early and you can turn some in while you are on zero impatience, that is a bonus, because you dont get that reduction thus effectively gives you some early game impatience.


Now if we have a look at the sources of hostility: Time, Population and Glades.

Now winning faster (time) is of course always a win-win. You win faster and thus are more efficient in your cycle and goal of closing that seal, and you also dont accrue as much hostility from years. So great, we want to focus on winning fast. But we wanted that already anyway, so nothing new here.

The other 2 are again double edged swords. Population is the basic source of everything. All resources are generated by spending worker-minutes. Maximizing your population growth in early game is absolute paramount to your success and victory speed. In this aspect, yes AtS is no different than civ. You absolutely do not want to hamper your early population growth. Limiting maximum population is however very much ok. I often stop taking pop in the mid 30s although this rarely is because i want to prevent storm related hostility issues. While more pop would mean more reputation from resolve (its proportional to pop count), at this point when i am in my end game resolve push, gaining new pop always means a temporary resolve drop until the new ones have eaten etc and it may indeed just get you in another hostility level. Hence, i dont want to upset the balance that is producing reputation as is. So no need to limit population by default, but consider if it is needed or helpful.

Glades are a double edged sword in that they give returns for the hostility they cost. My default is to start with 2 dangerous glades at the cost of 60 hostility. But i dont worry too much about opening additional glades to get me to a total of 105 or 120 hostility from glades. But before i go beyond that, i need a plan. A plan with cornerstones that i have that are going to make it ok to go for mass glade openings.

So then we get to the actual question: reducing the hostility.

I think the absolute nr1 key is to have an encampment for every 8 citizens. At 24 citizens this is -90 hostility and +6 global resolve. Thats 2 storm-time hostility levels taken care of. And of course it also includes that everyone is in housing, which is another half hostility level reduced.

Next important step is to have that 1 advanced food you can produce yourself as this is also greatly a win-win-win. Its another hostility level taken care of for those races that like it, its efficient for food production and its a step towards your victory condition.

The above lays a basis where hostility should be pretty much under control already. That said, i do still value hostility reduction highly and will often pick any cornerstone that helps with it. I generally value hostility reduction high enough that i do try to buy the -50 books from traders. I won't totally go out of my way to do so if it is very hard to get the gold though. Now i havent been playing in a while and dont remember all the current numbers after all the balance changes, so forgive me if some are off:

A Tier:
-Silent Looting (-15 per cache)
-Baptism of Fire (-10 per 3 cycts)
-Protected trade (-10 per 30 traded)
Each of these are generally worth ~50 hositility, just like the book, but with a large upside potential for more. That makes them pretty much auto picks.

-Safe Haven(-40 per neighborhood)
This one is special. Where normally i would house 24 citizens in 3 encampments for -90 hostility and +6 resolve, i would now house 28 in 2 neighbourhoods for -140 hostility and +4 resolve. On the resolve and hostility part, that isn't so very different from one another. The main benefit here is 20% production speed and 1 hearth less fire consumption. Only when i get over 30 (14+8+8) and towards 36 (14+14+8) population the cornerstone is really going to be a factor in the hostility / resolve equation as i would probably not have the resources or space to build a 4th hearth instead. That said, its absolutely a great cornerstone, just wanted to note that in mid-game it is effectively not truly a hostility/resolve cornerstone but a productivity one.

Yes, i put all 4 in the same tier. I think they are balanced now.

Situational tier:
-Frequent Patrols (-10 per loyalty)
I might build my game around it if i have more stuff that make it come together. (foxes, tools production, more cornerstones that benefit opening glades). But if i don't its not a pick for me.

-Calming the forest (-40 per emphaty)
eh....Sure if i am looking at a glade event that i am going to solve with emphaty ill take it. Otherwise wont gamble on it.

[Samseng Yik]

Originally posted by hardy_conrad:

Yeah I tried a prestige level, once, and got wrecked by the hostility. Obviously it's doable but I clearly need to think a bit deeper on the subject. For reducing hostility by crates don't you need a cornerstone though?

Viceroy difficulty will teach you how to be efficiency, and never idle stop progress towards victory.
Drag the game too long = crazy hostility
Too much population = crazy hostility and insane consumption
Usually I win around year 6 and 7 at difficulty p15-20.
Preferred population is 34 max.

Harder difficulty also start to you make think carefully which cornerstone and blueprint work better in long term

[Samseng Yik]

What arjenmit wrote is good grasp of the game.
Back to the basic, "efficiency".
Knows where to assign manpower is the key to win fast.
You don't need 100 plank and 15 food per population.
Always assign manpower toward something you need, or securing glade are the key to win fast.

Of course minor luck is involved, good cornerstone combo with good blueprint just skyrocket the safety of settlement faster

["Donut☆]

Originally posted by arjensmit79:

[...] long post

Very helpful. More that just a 'good grasp of the game' if you ask me.

I especially agree with what you're saying about calling the trader and delaying orders.

[hardy_conrad]

Hmm, my takeaway is that there aren't a ton of hard and fast rules with things generally being very contextual. Extra hearths may be an exception, definite upside and very little downside really, but they can only do so much. I get the impression that as the difficulty increases you become more and more reliant on good rng. Getting a handy cornerstone on lower difficulty is great, but not getting the ones you need on higher difficulty can be if not outright fatal certainly very painful.

[arjensmit79]

Originally posted by hardy_conrad:

, but they can only do so much. I get the impression that as the difficulty increases you become more and more reliant on good rng. .

Reliant not at all. Most p20 players, including me have near 100% winrates there.
You do need to adept more to the RNG at high difficulty levels though. Thats the nature of roque-lite.

[不思議種]

Of course it's silly to get call the trader and delay orders if you don't need the hostility reduction. It's just that hearths and a bit of impatience management when the storm is approaching is enough to win. Other sources of hostility reduction are nice to have but not essential.