Install Steam
login
|
language
简体中文 (Simplified Chinese)
繁體中文 (Traditional Chinese)
日本語 (Japanese)
한국어 (Korean)
ไทย (Thai)
Български (Bulgarian)
Čeština (Czech)
Dansk (Danish)
Deutsch (German)
Español - España (Spanish - Spain)
Español - Latinoamérica (Spanish - Latin America)
Ελληνικά (Greek)
Français (French)
Italiano (Italian)
Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian)
Magyar (Hungarian)
Nederlands (Dutch)
Norsk (Norwegian)
Polski (Polish)
Português (Portuguese - Portugal)
Português - Brasil (Portuguese - Brazil)
Română (Romanian)
Русский (Russian)
Suomi (Finnish)
Svenska (Swedish)
Türkçe (Turkish)
Tiếng Việt (Vietnamese)
Українська (Ukrainian)
Report a translation problem
Discussions Rules and Guidelines
0 
Report this post
Wait until the game auto saves.
Open glade.
Dont like it.
Alt + F4
start game again.
Now its before you opened the glade.
You can use save and quit option to force save. No need to wait.
On the one hand your actions and decisions sort of lose meaning. They don't have concequences. So you can do silly, risky and poorly planned stuff and retry until you happen to succeed. I find Diablo2 a great example of this which i also enjoy 100x more on hardcore. But other RPGs also work. On softcore people make stupid glass cannon builds. Reach bosses or area's you can't deal with ? Just die a 100 times and push on. No need to think. No thrill. There is no failure and thus no success.
On the other hand it can push you too far into the min-maxing stuff. Frostpunk is clearly made for save and reloading. This results in me saving, then trying 10 different things to see which is the most effective course of action for the next minute. Then an hour and 3 actual game minutes later, you think of an 11th better option for the choise you worked out 3 minutes earlier so you go back and do it over again. Everything after all must be perfect. This burns you out on games quickly. It's annoying to play like that, but if you're a perfectionist, you have to.
Obviously in RNG dependent games like AtS, a save system would absolutely be horrible. At least there is no RNG in frostpunk. But here, the whole rng could be made meaningless by the ability to save.
This is also why Against the Storm made me learn to love the rogue-lite thing. While in D2, playing hardcore is an awesome thrill, it is also heartbreaking to lose the character you have been developing for the past 300 hours. In a game like Ats its just perfect. Not all the disadvantages of save scumming i described, but if you lose, you lose only 3 hours or so. (unless queens hand)
You have just explained the difference between a game and the real life, LOL.
I just love when people try to save me from myself.
You see, in a game with a player-controlled save/load system a player may choose to play hardcore, saving only at the end of a session and loading only the last save. Or they can choose to heavily save-scum. Or invent any kind of elaborate rules of saving/loading for themselves. It is actually hilarious when a game mode that limits save/load possibilities is called something like "Ironman", "Iron will", etc: their whole point is to provide an external support for someone who, supposedly, can't keep to their chosen playstyle by their own "iron" will.
TL;DR It is OK by me that AtS has no manual save/load system. Just please don't say that developers did a great favor to players by not providing this system and thus saving people from peoples' own choices.
What objectors should realize though is that not having easy saving is a big part of what roguelites *are*. This is the kind of game that expects you to live with your choices.
As you kind of indicate, its better or worse for a particular game. Its part of the game design. Imagine Frostpunk without save and reload. I bet you would count the people who'd ever beat the hardest difficulty on one hand. (there is a game mode where you cant save or pause, but people play that after first learning the perfect strategy trough saving and reloading) Its part of that game design and removing the save and reload would require other changes to the game's design to make up for.
Its however also part of AtS game design that there is no reload. This game would also need to be entirely redesign to be good with save games.
Both AtS and Frostpunk are super awesome games in their own right and both made the right decision. (its just that i have grown to old to still want to spend 100's of hours perfecting a frostpunk mission, but i'm still the perfectionist who cannot live with imperfect choises made in a game like that, so that makes the game unfortunately less great for me personaly)
If there was a play mode that will allow you to save and load whenever you like, it should be a sort of easy mode with somehow reduced rewards.
As I have already said, I'm perfectly fine with save/load system in AtS as it is now, and I can understand devs not putting effort into more complex save system. It is sufficient for this game. I'm arguing with the following claims:
- manual saves would make the game worse (how exactly? and for whom?).
- players can't manage their own play style, so devs have to manage players, lest the players fall prey of their own bad habits (that's a very special game called Karpman triangle, can't recommend it).
Its not possible to have a conversation based on fantasy.
It makes the game worse, because it is an RNG game. An RNG game designed so you have to work with what you get dealt. If you play a game, you open a glade and you lose because you weren't prepared to deal with the glade event. You reload and you are going to open another, or not open one at all. Or do you have this control over yourself or something that will make you say to yourself "oh i can't do anything different now that i reloaded" and you lose in exactly the same way again ? No, that doesn't make sense right ? Thats not why anyone wants the save games.
So you are going to reload and do different things, defeating the RNG and thus defeating game design. And surely there might be varying degrees where one player will just play and only reload when he actually lost the game, where another might open 6 glades, pick out which one seems best and then reload and do that. But that just means you defeated the RNG and game design to varying degrees.
Similarly the D2 analogy i gave earlier how it changes the feeling you get while playing the game. So you can play softcore but tell yourself "im gonna play like hardcore and never die". If however 100 hours in you do die. What are you gonna do now ? Stop playing this character ? Then you might as well have played hardcore. So you are not gonna stop playing it ? Then how does it feel playing now ? Do you still feel that same thrill you got while playing hardcore ?
So no, please stop talking from a fantasy view that adding save and reload does not have an effect if the player just chooses to not let it have an effect. Stop arguing from fantasy land.