Guildhouse is OP , need a dynamic nerf.

[Luciole]

Hello, i'm here to say that i love this game. Seriously, one of the best city builder i have ever played in years !!

Just one problem i have with the current service buildings.
All services buildings have a niche , some being way weaker like the Forum and the market , while other are consistantly good like the tavern. However , after playing for a while , one is just absurdly broken. If i want to win fast or save a desperate situation , i just pick it everytime because it is so OP.
I am talking about the Guildhouse.
For 75 amber sold in goods , you get +1 resolve and the amount needed doesn't even scale !
At some point you get easily reach +6/7 resolves by year 6.
One of the biggest reason is the lack of dynamic prices of goods , which mean you can way to easily make ungodly amount of profit with just a building for luxury goods or material goods, which, with this service building, make an absolutely broken strategy.
Only during a Seal trial does this building is held back but not giving you an auto-win , and even then, that's still a loooot of resolves gained trough one building alone.
At one point, i had +10 resolves with it alone...

What i am saying, should we not be concerned that a building like that trivialise the game ?
Also, what about the other services building, can't we buff them a little and give them a bit of scaling ? For example , the Forum could give +1 resolve for every 30 education needs fulfilled , and +25% of that need to reach the next point (so basically 30/37/45/56 and so on.)
Same for all the other services . It seems rather odd that ONLY the Guildhouse can scale and also that it can scale so easily and quickly !

[Ansive]

The Guildhouse is very lumber expensive (50 I think), you can't always aford it.
And it only offers 1 service (wine/luxury), which isn't that great if you don't have beavers or foxes.
Late game you can expect it to offset 1 level of hostility during the storm. The Monastery does that without any amber investment.

For the resolve bonus, I prefer to chose a building that offers 2 services if I have both goods.

And about the Forum, I like to take it in the early game due to the 15% chance to double production. The only one I like more is the Clan Hall.
Of course, building the Guildhouse late game can be a great finisher. You're supposed to win around year 6.

[Nordil(Hun)]

Originally posted by Ansive:

The Guildhouse is very lumber expensive (50 I think), you can't always aford it.
And it only offers 1 service (wine/luxury), which isn't that great if you don't have beavers or foxes.
Late game you can expect it to offset 1 level of hostility during the storm. The Monastery does that without any amber investment.

For the resolve bonus, I prefer to chose a building that offers 2 services if I have both goods.

And about the Forum, I like to take it in the early game due to the 15% chance to double production. The only one I like more is the Clan Hall.
Of course, building the Guildhouse late game can be a great finisher. You're supposed to win around year 6.

Supposed to win around year 6. Okay on what prestige difficulty? Because on P16, winning on year 7 is already a strain:)
You need to be very lucky to win year 6 on P20.

But yes, regarding the Guild House you are right, it is not op.
It can help you finish the game earlier and easier, if you can afford it. :) Or if you find a ruin of it. But the Tea Doctor is just as similar for 200 complex food. (Which actually means you should aim for higher population.)
And there is a cornerstone that gives the same bonus just for 50 amber:)

[Urza]

Originally posted by Nordil(Hun):

Originally posted by Ansive:

The Guildhouse is very lumber expensive (50 I think), you can't always aford it.
And it only offers 1 service (wine/luxury), which isn't that great if you don't have beavers or foxes.
Late game you can expect it to offset 1 level of hostility during the storm. The Monastery does that without any amber investment.

For the resolve bonus, I prefer to chose a building that offers 2 services if I have both goods.

And about the Forum, I like to take it in the early game due to the 15% chance to double production. The only one I like more is the Clan Hall.
Of course, building the Guildhouse late game can be a great finisher. You're supposed to win around year 6.

Supposed to win around year 6. Okay on what prestige difficulty? Because on P16, winning on year 7 is already a strain:)
You need to be very lucky to win year 6 on P20.

But yes, regarding the Guild House you are right, it is not op.
It can help you finish the game earlier and easier, if you can afford it. :) Or if you find a ruin of it. But the Tea Doctor is just as similar for 200 complex food. (Which actually means you should aim for higher population.)
And there is a cornerstone that gives the same bonus just for 50 amber:)

Really good players win y6 sometimes on p20
Look some people play this game too much and they know how to min/max basically every aspect of the game. It snowballs.

and yeah the guildhouse effect can be a wincon all by itself, but the same can be said for almost any services building, because if you know what youre doing services are pretty much wincon

[arjensmit79]

Nah its not OP.

1: Once you get past P10, trading will be less and it will be less op.
2: Once you get to win faster, there is no time to build up that much prestige.
3: The game is full of things that are very strong when utilized to the max.
4: If you are trading that much, you have won already anyway. Buying out traders stacks of all service goods and advanced foods gets you even more resolve than the GH.

I often chose Tavern over Guild Hall.

[NisseDood]

Ruins map or just getting lucky+ explorers louge.
Why cant I hold all this resolve?

[Ares]

I'd like to introduce you to the Tea Doctor. But yeah, I think OP is the wrong description. They are late-game closers. They will almost always guarantee a win if you're stable, but they don't do anything to help you reach stability. Compared to a stable luxury good that services two races they usually don't provide more total resolve.

[Urza]

tbh I'll just take whatever service building shows up

[JL]

Originally posted by Ansive:

The Guildhouse is very lumber expensive (50 I think), you can't always aford it.
And it only offers 1 service (wine/luxury), which isn't that great if you don't have beavers or foxes.
Late game you can expect it to offset 1 level of hostility during the storm. The Monastery does that without any amber investment.

For the resolve bonus, I prefer to chose a building that offers 2 services if I have both goods.

And about the Forum, I like to take it in the early game due to the 15% chance to double production. The only one I like more is the Clan Hall.
Of course, building the Guildhouse late game can be a great finisher. You're supposed to win around year 6.

Damn you guys are winning in year 6? Maybe I have just have a very slow playstyle, but I'm around P12 and I usually don't win until around year 9 or 10.

[el Darkness]

Originally posted by JL:

Damn you guys are winning in year 6? Maybe I have just have a very slow playstyle, but I'm around P12 and I usually don't win until around year 9 or 10.

Eh, do not worry, it is likely that you need to know game better, or perhaps an upgrade or three. :)
Also there is no shame in taking things slower, if you enjoy the way you play, you should continue.

If you want to minmax your settlement youmay want to look on youtube or twitch how best players play. Ron Empire or Arjensmit are great at AtS.

[NisseDood]

Think the game is balanced around beating every map in around 10 years anyway and still have time to do the seal.

[Nordil(Hun)]

Originally posted by Urza:

Originally posted by Nordil(Hun):

Supposed to win around year 6. Okay on what prestige difficulty? Because on P16, winning on year 7 is already a strain:)
You need to be very lucky to win year 6 on P20.

But yes, regarding the Guild House you are right, it is not op.
It can help you finish the game earlier and easier, if you can afford it. :) Or if you find a ruin of it. But the Tea Doctor is just as similar for 200 complex food. (Which actually means you should aim for higher population.)
And there is a cornerstone that gives the same bonus just for 50 amber:)

Really good players win y6 sometimes on p20
Look some people play this game too much and they know how to min/max basically every aspect of the game. It snowballs.

and yeah the guildhouse effect can be a wincon all by itself, but the same can be said for almost any services building, because if you know what youre doing services are pretty much wincon

Sometimes:) A huge difference. I doubt it is possible to win on year 6 on P20 every time:)

I won on year 6 on P20 a few times. But it is more common for me to win at around year 8. If i eff it up, usually i rush too much at the first year it can extend to year 11.
Now i had a mission where i needed to finish before year 8 to ge a bonus thingie. Was a strain i rolled away about 150 amber to get the a building for one of my two remaining orders. (Guild Hall or Temple, got Temple.)

[Olleus]

I think the OP is right about dynamic pricing for goods, but for the wrong reason. It's not guild house that's too strong, but trading in general. Especially before P10. Anything that synergizes with a trading heavy strategy is great, because trading is great. Tone down trading a little and everything comes back into balance.

I believe that trading ought to be an option to get you out of a pinch and, with the right cornerstones, a potential path to victory, but not an automatic, optimal bypass to most of the game's economy. A flat reduction in sell prices, like P10 does, hurts early game adaptability too much IMO, while not really preventing trade snowballing. But a dynamic "inflation" adjustment where amber received from selling / trade routes drops by something like 5% for every 20 amber sold might just be perfect.

[Nordil(Hun)]

Originally posted by Olleus:

I think the OP is right about dynamic pricing for goods, but for the wrong reason. It's not guild house that's too strong, but trading in general. Especially before P10. Anything that synergizes with a trading heavy strategy is great, because trading is great. Tone down trading a little and everything comes back into balance.

I believe that trading ought to be an option to get you out of a pinch and, with the right cornerstones, a potential path to victory, but not an automatic, optimal bypass to most of the game's economy. A flat reduction in sell prices, like P10 does, hurts early game adaptability too much IMO, while not really preventing trade snowballing. But a dynamic "inflation" adjustment where amber received from selling / trade routes drops by something like 5% for every 20 amber sold might just be perfect.

Actually i would argue against it. Yes trading can be wonderful, if it is able to sustain your needs. But when you roll away 250 amber to get a blueprint you can use...because you have only 1 blueprint to pick from...then that flat reduction would make the game so much RNG dependent that you basicly just do not even try for certain map maluses.

[Olleus]

Originally posted by Nordil(Hun):

Actually i would argue against it. Yes trading can be wonderful, if it is able to sustain your needs. But when you roll away 250 amber to get a blueprint you can use...because you have only 1 blueprint to pick from...then that flat reduction would make the game so much RNG dependent that you basicly just do not even try for certain map maluses.

Well in that case the problem is only having 1 blueprint to pick from... The base rules of the game shouldn't be balanced around the very toughest Prestige penalties. Actually, that would be doing things completely backwards! If trading is nerfed by having some kind of inflation price scaling, then the prestige penalties wouldn't need to so drastically reduce player choice in order to provide the same level of challenge.

[mostly willing]

Originally posted by Kazual:

All services buildings have a niche , some being way weaker like the Forum and the market , while other are consistantly good like the tavern. However , after playing for a while , one is just absurdly broken. If i want to win fast or save a desperate situation , i just pick it everytime because it is so OP.
I am talking about the Guildhouse.

market and forum bad, guild hall OP? this isn't serious.

Originally posted by Nordil(Hun):

I doubt it is possible to win on year 6 on P20 every time:)

I won on year 6 on P20 a few times. But it is more common for me to win at around year 8

you are not the best player around. ppl at p20 can win y5 consistently, let alone y6. it isn't uncommon for experienced players.