No incentive to do Cursed Royal Woodlands biome

[boring.cat.entertainment]

Not sure if this has ever been brought up and perhaps it is just me, but I consider the Cursed Royal Woodlands biome to be a significantly more challenging biome for the player, but there is no incentive to create a settlement there when doing a seal run. You get a significant debuff, but no extra materials, seal fragments or royal resupply as far as I can tell. I think it would be nice if it gave something special after completing a settlement there. Would be great to hear other players' or even the developers' opinion on this.

[arjensmit79]

For me, its the map modifiers that decide where i want to settle. Not just the modifiers themselves, but very much also the distance towards new modifiers i will uncover from the fog when my town is done. (and those that i have the option to uncover by choosing caravan range). I also very much look for places where i can have 2 modifiers. Therefore, the place i will settle is more dictated than just the 6 tiles around a modifier, it is normally limited to 1 or 2 tiles. And then the biome underneath will play a role in that decision if i get to choose between 2 tiles. But surely i can't avoid CRW always and rarely (its a rare biome) i do get to settle on it.

[Strategic Sage]

As I mentioned on discord where this was also posted, my question is why should there be such an incentive?

[boring.cat.entertainment]

Well, my reasoning is that it seems like more challenging content that you get punished for choosing during a seal run instead of potentially getting rewarded for. If you are not doing seals, that might not matter that much. I just don't see a reason why I should go to a CRW tile if I want to succesfully finish a seal. I have just finished Cobalt and am currently attempting Titanium and not even once from the very start that seals were released did it seem like a good idea to go there. One becomes afraid that all the time that you've spent building up several settlements is going to get wasted. CRW is very interesting content that I get encouraged to avoid in game. I consider not being able to see where Forbidden and Dangerous glades are a serious debuff. This might be much worse than many of the negative world modifiers. You get materials and royal resupply from those, but no such thing from CRW. Would actually be interesting to have a poll on whether players tend to systematically avoid CRW while doing seals or not.

[boring.cat.entertainment]

Also, as someone mentioned in discord, the CRW flavour text is kind of misleading currently. It states that "The Queen will handsomely reward any viceroy brave enough to settle this part of the world". Of course, there is no such special reward in terms of game mechanics.

[MightyFox]

The Cursed Royal Woodland has some interesting things going for it. It may not reward like a negative modifier, but it has rules all it's own (like all the biomes) and if you're good enough at the game, you can take advantage.

First, understand that all the clearings are the same size, even the safe ones. This is big for expanding, as I don't have to chop through two or three little ones to create more space around my base.

Next, you can completely nullify that 'hidden glade' mechanic with cornerstones like Mist piercers, or any other buff that allows you to see into glades, so you can take ONLY the large safe glades, if your really want to, or go for only the dangerous ones, if you want to do that instead.

Third, the ghosts that appear can be easy to satisfy, leading to some good early game pickups. Most don't even penalize you if you don't meet their requirements either.

Fourth, the trees have lots of bugs. Minor thing, I know, but good for satisfying lizards early with jerky sticks.

Like with most biomes, no one's forcing you to play on CRW if you don't want to. But, if you know how to play the map, or simply want more of a surprise every time you open the glade, it can be a good break from the predictable grind of many other maps.

[Blazikasu]

As one of the people who avoids small glades like the plague, I think this map sucks, and there's nothing more dissappointing than having to carve your way thru the woods, only to find a huge empty space, with a couple insects on the side, some trader you don't care about and a small cache with a bunch of crap.

[Strategic Sage]

I view the different biomes partially as terrain. That is, I view 'bad' biomes as an obstacle on your way to a Seal or whatever else you are aiming for, and you can weigh the risk of going around/to a different biome and potentially taking longer, and consider if you have the extra time to spare or not, etc.

I don't think every challenge even *should* have an associated proportional reward. It's good for *some* of them to do that, but some things just being harder for the sake of being harder is also useful.

[IamMokume]

Is it acceptable to say I find this modifier to be a fun challenge, never knowing whether the next glade I explore will have a couple friendly minor nodes or *certain doom*? Or is potential fun not enough of an incentive to play a game anymore? ;)

[kory]

Playing for seals has caused a particular "safe" play style, where things like cursed lands are to be avoided, but you don't have to play that way, you can just do the maps as they come, and tackle whatever challenges you feel up to doing.

[Cubicle.Dexter]

Originally posted by IamMokume:

Is it acceptable to say I find this modifier to be a fun challenge, never knowing whether the next glade I explore will have a couple friendly minor nodes or *certain doom*? Or is potential fun not enough of an incentive to play a game anymore? ;)

Potential fun is an incentive to play a game for most people, but it's important to remember that what's fun for you is not necessarily fun for everyone. And it's clear from the OP that this biome is not fun for them. Don't project.

I'm early in my play of this fantastic game, but it has consumed much of my free time since its discovery. Bear that in mind, as my ideas of balancing are from the perspective of someone who has only recently breached Pioneer difficulty. (Slow advancement because the formation and following of a "process" is fun for me; I restricted myself from higher difficulty and the precious rewards that come with it until I finished the first seal, and will graduate my difficulty accordingly going forward. Don't judge; I find this fun.)

Would it be a more acceptable risk/reward biome if it did away with small/dangerous/forbidden glade types entirely? Instead, it could simply have a random amount of resource nodes, from minimal (similar to small glades) to high (as dangerous glades) and then, separately it could make a weighted roll for 1-3 events of a non-risky type (caches, villagers, buildings, etc) and have a percentage chance to also include a dangerous or forbidden event.

So, you could open one glade and get 2 rocks, 2 berry bushes, and a bomb that will kill everything within 20 tiles if you don't sacrifice your soul... or you could get four large nodes and a small cache. Or anything in between.

[Forcedge]

I've unlocked everything I have without doing any seal runs, not even modifiers.
I've only ever closed one bronze seal yesterday and it was an absolute nightmare. There comes a point where challenging isn't fun anymore and it just becomes a chore.

[boring.cat.entertainment]

Originally posted by Forcedge:

I've unlocked everything I have without doing any seal runs, not even modifiers.
I've only ever closed one bronze seal yesterday and it was an absolute nightmare. There comes a point where challenging isn't fun anymore and it just becomes a chore.

You can only unlock the Queen’s Hand Trials game mode by completing the Adamantine seal as far as I understand and it is a very tall order in my opinion. The main incentive for doing seals is to get this mode unlocked (at least for me). This is sort of linked to my gripe about CRW being too punishing when you are trying to go for a high level seal. By the way, I have pretty much just given up after the Cobalt seal as the game just became too grindy and repetitive. Amazing game overall, though.

[John Hadley]

There should be some challenges and pitfalls in any game that is intended to be challenging.

Whether you really want to do cursed royal woodlands or not, it may be on the one and only hex that will leave you within three hexes of two different ? marks on the map so that you can reveal both and hopefully score a royal resupply on the following map once you figure out which one you should go to. If that happens, you should take it as a challenge and work a little harder to do it so that you can reap the reward of being able to choose between the two ? marks which do provide you a benefit.

[Sohvan]

I like the Cursed Woodlands, and I don't think it's necessarily bad to have biomes that are more difficult.

If you wanted to rebalance it a bit, it could be interesting to have a Cursed Woodlands specific building similar to the Archeologist Office for Scarlet Orchard that would interact with some of the unique mechanics. For example, upgrade options could reveal limited information on unopened glades, increase the time given to satisfy ghosts, or give bonuses based on the number of ghosts satisfied.

[LeaderEnemyBoss]

Main issue with cursed wood lands is that some of the ghost requests are not well balanced for lower difficulties. I am specifically talking about "require to grow/burn blighrot", which can often times be impossible if you encounter it in your first or second glade below P11. The names of these ghosts are "the mad alchemist" and "blight fighter captain". Upon failure the former destroys all your fuel (can at least be played around somewhat) and the latter permanently increases hostility by 150 (actually quite bad).

But from P11 onward I found cursed woods to be an interesting biome, because ghosts are mostly helpful (or at least dont hurt too much when failing) and the playstyle is just differentt when compared to other maps, not necessarily harder.