Against the Storm

Against the Storm

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God of War Dec 19, 2023 @ 1:56pm
Is Against the Storm very time-consuming?
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Last edited by God of War; Sep 24, 2024 @ 11:11pm
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Showing 1-15 of 20 comments
arjensmit79 Dec 19, 2023 @ 2:52pm 
A game normally takes about 1-1.5 hour of gametime. (6-7 game years of 10-12 minutes each)
You can play at double and tripple speed and you can pause the game to carefully consider your options.
If you play at the lowest difficulty, you could probably complete a level in less than 1 hour by playing at higher speeds.
If you play at a challenging difficulty, 3 hours for a level is pretty normal.

Playing fast at a non challenging level is not really what makes this game fun. There's better games for that, so i advise against buying the game with that intent.

The game is indeed designed to be a non-save-scum game. There are loopholes around it a bit, but unreliable. Better not count on that.
Last edited by arjensmit79; Dec 19, 2023 @ 2:53pm
arjensmit79 Dec 19, 2023 @ 3:14pm 
Originally posted by God of War:
Thank you for your answer.

I played the demo and had the same impression:

One map takes about 1-1.5 hours and one run consists of several maps so that a run is between 5 and 10 hours.

I assume if you fail a map you have to restart your run/caravan and may level up/purchase upgrades, i.e. typical rogue-lite meta progression.

Map duration is short for a city builder but run length is very long for a rogue-lite. Typical rogue-lite runs are about an hour which I personally prefer.

You have a tech tree with unlocks that help you beat higher difficulty levels and add new mechanics to the game. (i dont know too much about the roguelike definition, but i guess thats part of it) It takes probably 150-200 hours to unlock all of them. This tech tree only gets reset by making a new account or resetting your account entirely. Losing a game has no negative effects on this except that you spent time on this particular game for little or no rewards. (so like 3 hours if you play slow and careful)

Besides that you have a seals that you can close. These go in cycles that get longer and longer. There are 8 seals to unlock. The first can be done in 2 games, the last in about 12 games. Losing a game does not end your cycle. The cycle however has limited time (in game years), so losing multiple games can cause you to be short on time to close the seal.
The whole seals thing is just another layer on the game to give the player a sense of purpose and to encourage playing higher difficulty levels. but it could just as well be ignored. You don't really get any rewards for it, it doesnt really change your individual games, nor does it have an effect on the progress on that unlock tree. Nothing gets "reset" when a cycle ends and a new one starts except your position on the world map. Hence, failing a seal unlock does not need to be seen as a waste of time.

After you have spend some 200 hours in this environment and managed to beat the highest out of 24 difficulty levels, you get access to a new game mode that probably is more typical rogue-lite: Now you have a run of 10-15 games. (so think 40 hours ish) After each game, you buy upgrades. If you lose a game, the run ends and you start from scratch.
Last edited by arjensmit79; Dec 19, 2023 @ 3:34pm
el Darkness Dec 19, 2023 @ 3:54pm 
My games tend to last quite long (3-6 hours) but that is because I am an overthinker. Higher difficulties will take longer to complete but buying upgrades will counter that increase. Loosing a Settlement costs you nothing, unless you are dead set on repairing the Seals, then loosing too many Settlements will make you unable to attempt that feat.

If you liked the demo give it a try. If you do not mind building many temporary Settlements, leaving them behind and then embarking again in a new Cycle, AtS may be what you are looking for.
Freeman Dec 19, 2023 @ 4:13pm 
I lost my girl, my job and my degree and I have no regrets.
Samseng Yik Dec 19, 2023 @ 4:15pm 
Rogue like is always about playing a lot multiple different run.
It never design for people who cannot it.
So leave if you cannot adapt rogue like nature, which is the current top quality gaming trend
schnappkatze Dec 20, 2023 @ 4:05pm 
Originally posted by Sushi Dragon:
This game would really be so good if it wasn't a roguelite. Then it wouldn't feel as time consuming. I felt the same from the demo.

Wouldn't it then feel like every other survival builder just in a different setting? I think I would get bored after at least 10 hours on the same map, what would you even do there that long? At least to me the rougelike elements are the main reason why I have much more hours in AtS than in every other survival city builder, be it banished, farthest frontier, timberborn, dawn of men etc.
Clawyer Dec 21, 2023 @ 1:15am 
Why do you feel the need for grinding upgrades?

The first few levels of upgrades in the city make sense as they introduce new mechanics when giving all of them at once would overwhelm new players.
Most of the upgrades from then on can help you be more efficient but none of them are really required to forge your first seals, so if you do them one by one you are probably done with the upgrade tree when finishing the last seal?
TripSin Dec 21, 2023 @ 10:48am 
If you think this game is "time consuming" then it sounds like it just isn't for your tastes. No game is going to please every single person.

The game is supposed to take time and thoughtful consideration. Not just something you rush through. If you're looking for something light that you can speed through, you're looking at the wrong game.

It is repetitive to a degree of course, every roguelite game is. At the same time though, the game progresses in depth the further into it you get and the harder up the difficulty levels you climb. Every settlement is different though because of the roguelite elements and procedurally generated maps.
Stübi Senpai Dec 21, 2023 @ 1:39pm 
It depends actually, I play the game on 3x speed unless an event is coming down to the wire, with liberal pausing in between. You can knock out a map in half an hour, depending on the difficulty and how focused on finishing you are. But I think expecting about an hour, give or take 10 minutes, would be my average.
TripSin Dec 21, 2023 @ 2:59pm 
Originally posted by God of War:
...
From your point of view, are my first impressions wrong or can you confirm them?

Are there features or methods to help in case of the remarks above?

1) The species' information is in the top left. You can expand it out to show what they want. There is an option in the settings to have it expanded by default (which is how I play). You can see what you can and cannot produce through the recipes menu (default keybind is U). You type in the material to search it. There is a button there which will let you switch between seeing which buildings produce it and which buildings use it as an ingredient. You can turn production on and off as well as select which materials are used from here.

2 & 3) There is a lot of micromanagement in this game. There are overlays that you can use (check keybinds, I changed some of mine) to see things like where workers are and resources at a glance. There is an encyclopedia page that mentions this, but I think the devs stupidly did not emphasize these overlays in the tutorial They also don't mention anywhere about how you can click them directly through their overlay icons and use the scroll wheel to change species.

An aside, one thing I dislike about this game is how workers can end up storing a ton of mats inside production buildings that very often end up getting not used and look like you don't have them because they're not in the warehouse. It takes a lot of micromanagement to go through production buildings to send materials that aren't going to be used back to the warehouse. I feel they should've streamlined this more and let the player decide how much of the materials they bring to the production buildings from the warehouse.

4) This game isn't about being easy and is fairly micromanagement heavy. I appreciate this and feel it contributes to the challenge in a mostly good way. It's pretty obvious when the game saves as everything pauses and gets dark. I think it saves often enough. Being able to choose your saves I think would be bad for this game. It would encourage save scumming and cheesing. A more iron man like mode is better IMO.

5) You learn overtime the production chains. I'm personally okay without too much handholding. I see learning what's needed for what as being part of becoming a competent viceroy.

6) 99% of the time I build just one of each building. Like I said earlier, the game develops some depth as you get further into it. Eventually rain engines are introduced and you use those to increase production speed when needed.
Last edited by TripSin; Dec 21, 2023 @ 3:01pm
Rithrin Dec 21, 2023 @ 5:49pm 
Originally posted by God of War:
From your point of view, are my first impressions wrong or can you confirm them?

Are there features or methods to help in case of the remarks above related to inconvenience?
Well, I'm not the guy you asked, but may be able to shed some light here.

Originally posted by God of War:
1) You cannot easily check anytime which race needs which goods, how you can produce them with the random restrictions, how many resources are at stock and if resources are available at the discovered parts of the map. For instance, when picking a new building easily accessible information would be really important for a careful, strategic choice.
I think that's part of mastering the game, you eventually learn who needs what, and how they can be produced. Once you've played for a few days it becomes pretty simple to identify, for example, when you get a blueprint that can produce pies, whether you have the requisite grain/roots/mushrooms for flour on the map, and then if you see berry bushes or something, you know you're set. If the game gave you a convenient pop-up that somehow highlighted or summarized "You have Beavers, Lizards, and Foxes, so your best product to satisfy villager needs is currently: Pickled Goods, which will best be supplied by Waterskins (You currently have a Supplier building, and have abundant leather), and Vegetables (You have many Large Vegetable patches in two adjacent clearings) combined at the Cellar" it would essentially be playing the game for you.

Not that I'm saying automation is an invalid game design choice, it just seems this game was designed with the intent that internalizing recipes, understanding biomes, knowing villager needs, and chances of getting certain buildings, etc, is part of the mastery process. If the game detailed this info out in simple fashion, there isn't really much *else* to the game.

Originally posted by God of War:
2) Having to manually assign workers each time isn't convenient, too.

3) If you had to select non-optimal workers to get a production running and, then, receive new settlers including optimal workers, you have to remember where non-optimal workers are working or click through all of the buildings. Not convenient.

Or is there an optimal auto-assign for workers?
There is a hotkey to autofill a production building which can be toggled to add only one worker or fill completely. I don't know if it had any logic for adding "well suited" workers to the building before others or not, but there is some auto-assigning available. Same with Woodcutters - there's a button next to the hostility meter that, depending on whether you're holding Shift, Ctrl, and so on, will either remove one Woodcutter, all Woodcutters, or add them back.

Originally posted by God of War:
4) Also setting production priorities feels not convenient, too. As far as I remember, dealing with production lines is far more convenient e.g. in Settler 2 10th Anniversary, Settler 7 and Nebuchadnezzar. And, in these games, you can save and load manually!
Can't disagree on this one, it's far more efficient and, I think "best practice" in AtS, to manually enable and disable products when you need them, and not leave them open-ended, even with limits and priorities in place, as the risk of overproducing and burning resources suboptimally is too high.

Originally posted by God of War:
5) I have got the impression that Against the Storm adapted mechanics from other rogue-lites/-likes that you pick buildings without easy access to further necessary detailed information about each building. For example, it tells you which items can be produced by a building but not what input is needed and what items can be produced from these items or who needs these items. So, you may easily select a suboptimal choice with no chance to load a savegame. I dislike the corresponding mechanics alot in Binding of Isaac and Risk of Rain, for instance. You had to open a guide for more information.
Well, you can right click on the building's icon on the deed when in the selection window and it'll "Examine" the building, which opens up the building's page in the Encyclopedia, allowing you to view all the inputs for every recipe, their production times, etc. And you can always check villager needs by looking at their panel in the top left of the UI. I typically just leave those open all the time so I can get the info at a glance.

Originally posted by God of War:
6) Calculating production queues seems to be quite inconvenient. So, how many production buildings are needed to produce a certain item for the given size of population per time unit. For example, in Settlers 2 10th Anniversary, Settler 7 and Nebuchadnezzar calculating such production cycles was straight forward. You can easily find out how many buildings are needed.
I'd say this is true, but it's also kind of what "the game" here is: Trying to calculate all of this yourself with limited resources and quick villager shuffling to manage current needs. The general rule, for me so far, is that you only ever build one of any production building. Very rarely do you need to build a second, the main question is just figuring out what level of staffing you want to give it at any moment, and rain engines are used if demand is high rather than build a second copy.
Last edited by Rithrin; Dec 21, 2023 @ 5:49pm
Spacesuit Spiff Dec 21, 2023 @ 9:01pm 
The overworld cycles aren't what I'd think of as roguelite runs, they're a longer-term goal that can last 30+ hours at high level. Thinking in roguelite terms, the main purpose they serve is creating some variety due to the cycle-long upgrades you find during them, and giving a motivation to not just win the runs but win them quickly and complete secondary objectives.
Versutia Dec 24, 2023 @ 12:44am 
Just had my first fail (on the silver seal map) => wasted cyrcle, wasted 40h of playing, I thougth I understood the game, now I know that I have no clue about it. Have to do it all agian.

Repetative: high
Time consuming: high

Wish there was a retry functionallitiy, because I faild mostly because of bad luck!

Luck dependent: medium
el Darkness Dec 24, 2023 @ 1:36am 
Originally posted by Versutia:
Just had my first fail (on the silver seal map) => wasted cyrcle, wasted 40h of playing, I thougth I understood the game, now I know that I have no clue about it. Have to do it all agian.

Repetative: high
Time consuming: high

Wish there was a retry functionallitiy, because I faild mostly because of bad luck!

Luck dependent: medium
Unless your only goal is to reforge the seal (and every thing else does not matter) you have not wasted any time. You have gathered resources to get some upgrades, next run will be a little easier. More importantly, if you learned a lesson, you will play better next time. Consider Seal stage a boss stage, it should be more difficult.

Also, let us know what made you fail, a lot of people here are more than willing to share their knowledge.
Versutia Dec 26, 2023 @ 1:34am 
Originally posted by el Darkness:
Unless your only goal is to reforge the seal (and every thing else does not matter) you have not wasted any time. You have gathered resources to get some upgrades, next run will be a little easier.

If I would get me upgrades, the whole difficulty settings would mean nothing. I want to see, if I can complete the game asap without "cheating" myself ahead.

Originally posted by el Darkness:
your only goal is to reforge the seal (and every thing else does not matter)

As far as I understood, breaking the seals is how you complete the game. So, what else is there to do? Just settling around without purpose does not make any sense to me.

Originally posted by el Darkness:
Also, let us know what made you fail, a lot of people here are more than willing to share their knowledge.

I did not get good boons. I'm able to judge good and bad boons already and in this run I got mostly ♥♥♥♥♥♥ ones.
I also had trouble getting an advanced food chain and services, becaus the builds came in such an weird order and poorly matching my people's needs. So, my production was inefficient and I had to waste many resources to not lose all of my people and also replaces them. Usually I finish a map in year 6 or 7, but that map ended after year 10 (all the same difficulty). Didn't had so much bad luck again, yet.
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Date Posted: Dec 19, 2023 @ 1:56pm
Posts: 20