Don't see the actual purpose (yet)

[emenegro]

Around 14h, 6 settlements (all won), but still not sure what is the purpose of the game. It is an infinite cycle of settlements until the storm, then everything is wiped out, then start over again. What for exactly?

In settlements, too many different ways to get victory points, so I am creating super sloppy layouts, activating and deactivating buildings depending on resources and resolution, opening glades to get the victory points as fast as possible and move on. Trading to get tools to resolve glade events, etc.

I think the game is super well done but I am still trying to find the fun part of it 😅 I mean, 14h and I've just unblock 4th tutorial because you have to upgrade something in the citadel to level 6...

[emenegro]

Around 20h, now playing in veteran, first seal forged, it is starting to grow on me. Still agreeing with some negative reviews out there but enjoying the experience.

Hope it continues like this, because I had the same feeling with Darkest Dungeon 1 and I dropped it at 30h, right before veteran dungeons, because of repetitiveness.

[Oniichan]

Best to you but even if you stop soon at least you can feel good about getting value out of your purchase. Cheers!

[Slippery Williams]

I personally enjoy the game because I like the challenge of making an efficient productive settlement as practice to make another even better settlement next time. The whole meta gameplay thing of earning exp and unlocking seals I pretty much don’t think about, it’s just a fun small city builder to me

Also yeah, put the difficulty up a bit, it’s gets more engaging

[𝕮𝖔𝖗𝖛𝖚𝖘]

For me it really clicked at Veteran, where you get the whole blight stuff to deal with.
Other than that, I guess this:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2996908138

[Jonesy]

Originally posted by Olleus:

The game doesn't need a meta goal. Making a successful settlement on the hardest difficulty you can manage is the goal in itself. Rogue likes/lights typically have a very strong goal per run, but little to none from one run to the next.

That said, the sense of progression in the smouldering city could be better. I think this could be solved without any real game play changes, only cosmetic ones. Change the progression tree to a view of the actual city, replacing each of the vertical branches with an actual buildings that you click on to upgrade. Have the art for each of those buildings gradually change each time you upgrade them. The background of the city would change with each seal discovered. This is, more or less, how the village works in Darkest Dungeon. Each of the branches already have the names of buildings, so the core idea is already present, just not the presentation.

The "Home" tab in the smouldering city sort of does that at present, changing what it looks with some deeds, but more could be done IMO.

Love this comment and wanted to share another I found awhile back that reminded me of yours!


I remember at one point Rob was very dismissive about Age of Wonders 3, saying that Endless Legend was the only good 4X (apart from Civ series probably) and saying AoW3 is not close. And it's objectively wrong! AoW3 is one of the best 4X games ever, and I'd argue the only one (before AoWPF at least) that realized the player dream of tactical combat inside of an empire-building game. Even Total War series is not as good with balancing it (maybe 3K is close). AoW3 was perfectly playable in auto-resolve multiplayer mode but opened up a whole new layer with tactical combat.



Another thing that podcast made me think about is how many of the later 4X games dismiss progress. In Civilization, Beyond Earth, Galactic Civilizations, fantasy Stardock 4X Fallen Enchantress, even Stellaris - and you observe grand changes. You're not just a bigger empire with bigger ships but is not recognizable. In Beyond Earth or Stellaris you all transform to robots and maybe live in ringworlds, in Fallen Enchantress the very fabric of earth bends under your command and your troops are now wearing magical full plate. But in Endless series or Age of Wonders it's just numerical increments, you don't change the world. Even if Legend/Space tech description talks about some grand change - you play recognizably the same guys as you had on turn 1. Cultural or biological identity of all of those people is far more important than any technological advancement. It's not Star Trek but rather Star Wars or Dune space medieval stasis. Not sure if this says anything about the state of our current culture or its just a trend that today players value difference in starting factions more than potential variety of development.

[Zero0n3]

also - as you go further from the start location in the map view, you will be FORCED to play that settlement on harder difficulties (so you will end up having to play settlements on prestige levels as you make your way closer to the seal. Also don't be like me and pay attention to the fragments needed for the seal - nothing worse then being right next to one and have no where near the frags needed!

[Zero0n3]

Originally posted by Olleus:

The game doesn't need a meta goal. Making a successful settlement on the hardest difficulty you can manage is the goal in itself. Rogue likes/lights typically have a very strong goal per run, but little to none from one run to the next.

That said, the sense of progression in the smouldering city could be better. I think this could be solved without any real game play changes, only cosmetic ones. Change the progression tree to a view of the actual city, replacing each of the vertical branches with an actual buildings that you click on to upgrade. Have the art for each of those buildings gradually change each time you upgrade them. The background of the city would change with each seal discovered. This is, more or less, how the village works in Darkest Dungeon. Each of the branches already have the names of buildings, so the core idea is already present, just not the presentation.

The "Home" tab in the smouldering city sort of does that at present, changing what it looks with some deeds, but more could be done IMO.

What may be cool is more cosmetic stuff in the skill tree scattered around or an entirely new column just for cosmetics.

If you want to have some extreme longevity, having multiple skins for each building, all available with the meta resources from either the skill tree or a vendor in the city for skins would add to the time played.

[Rithrin]

Originally posted by 1ncorporated:

Originally posted by Olleus:

The game doesn't need a meta goal. Making a successful settlement on the hardest difficulty you can manage is the goal in itself. Rogue likes/lights typically have a very strong goal per run, but little to none from one run to the next.

That said, the sense of progression in the smouldering city could be better. I think this could be solved without any real game play changes, only cosmetic ones. Change the progression tree to a view of the actual city, replacing each of the vertical branches with an actual buildings that you click on to upgrade. Have the art for each of those buildings gradually change each time you upgrade them. The background of the city would change with each seal discovered. This is, more or less, how the village works in Darkest Dungeon. Each of the branches already have the names of buildings, so the core idea is already present, just not the presentation.

The "Home" tab in the smouldering city sort of does that at present, changing what it looks with some deeds, but more could be done IMO.

What may be cool is more cosmetic stuff in the skill tree scattered around or an entirely new column just for cosmetics.

If you want to have some extreme longevity, having multiple skins for each building, all available with the meta resources from either the skill tree or a vendor in the city for skins would add to the time played.

Yes, please! Funnily enough, the two most exciting unlocks for me across the whole meta progression were the *Pipe Corner* and *Pipe T-Section*, because after dozens of hours of playing I could finally build pipelines with an actual functional appearance. Even playing P6+ with increased building costs, I still enjoy snaking pipes around my town, using T-Sections to make it look like they supply heating or rainwater or something to buildings. Such a small thing can bring great joy.

[Samseng Yik]

I played Mario and I win, so what is the purpose?
I played FTL and beat the flag ship, so what is the purpose?
I play Slay The Spire and I beat the boss, so what is the purpose?
I finish Curse Of The Dead God, it said I become Champion Of Death, then I click the game it still play like before I become Champion of Death, so what is the purpose?
I finish Armored Core 6 all 3 ending, what is the purpose?

They all provide gameplay for me

[emenegro]

Originally posted by Samseng Yik:

I played Mario and I win, so what is the purpose?
I played FTL and beat the flag ship, so what is the purpose?
I play Slay The Spire and I beat the boss, so what is the purpose?
I finish Curse Of The Dead God, it said I become Champion Of Death, then I click the game it still play like before I become Champion of Death, so what is the purpose?
I finish Armored Core 6 all 3 ending, what is the purpose?

They all provide gameplay for me

In all those games you have a clear final goal, that is the one that pushes you to keep playing. And that goal is well known before hours and hours of playing (as I said, I played 4th tutorial at hour 14). It is OK for AtS to be like this, but lacks a clear purpose that could entice the user to keep playing.

If you review this thread, all the advises are to give it time and play in harder difficulties. I've never received these kind of advises for any other game.

[arjensmit79]

The goal is to become queens hand by completing the queens hand trial.

[el Darkness]

A lot of people started to really enjoy AtS at higher difficulties, when the game becomes more of a puzzle game. If you like to challenge yourself it may hit the spot. But that requires, as other people said, a bit of time invested, unless you feel you are good enough to start at Viceroy difficulty, but I recommend against that, I played approximately 2 games on each of the 3 starting difficulties before I played Viceroy, it was well timed for me.

Try to advance difficulty, unless you get the feeling that game becomes too hard, if that is the case play a bit on lower difficulty, buy upgrades, improve strategy and then you can go for higher difficulty again. Or dont, play at level that works best for you.

[Tiax]

Originally posted by emenegro:

Not a huge fan, that's true, but for instance Hades got me 30h glued to the screen until finished.

I guarantee that you haven't "finished" Hades. You haven't even reached the end of the story, not to mention the actual Epilogue.

[mostly willing]

Originally posted by Tiax:

Originally posted by emenegro:

Not a huge fan, that's true, but for instance Hades got me 30h glued to the screen until finished.

I guarantee that you haven't "finished" Hades. You haven't even reached the end of the story, not to mention the actual Epilogue.

jesus why do you have to be so obnoxious
people can consider the game beaten after 1 escape. there's nothing wrong with that

[el Darkness]

When I got myself AtS, there was only endless Cycle of building Settlements that were destroyed by Blightstorm. And I loved it. Now we have Seals for those who are looking for moderate challenge and Queens Hand mode for those who are casually playing on highest difficulty.

Perhaps devs will add something like a story, but the goal is to ensure safety of the Smoldering City throughout the storms. It is unending goal. I do know that some people may find it boring, but I really enjoy it. On the other hand I spend more than a 1000h in DOTA2 where you actually do the same thing each game, you fight against other team. Now that got repetitive. Of course it is a different kind of game.

I do not know if you will like AtS or not in the near future, but I hope you will remember your time in this game as pleasantly as possible. Wish I could tell you something more, but honestly, I do not know what to tell.