Rain engine point?

[Rumparum]

So It's my first time playing on Veteran today and I've got introduced to rain engines...
Firstly let me tell that I understand my math has to be wrong and there's some variable I don't know about (I mean it has to be wrong - the feature wouldn't be released otherwise right?) . Now that being said let me say what my flawed math tells me:

There's no point of doing rain engines - WHY?
Lets say you install rain engines on one building.
1. Now you need actual rain from collectors or hydrants on the glades. This means 1 or 2 workers required to sit in each rain collecting building.
2. It takes resources to install (pipes), resources to make collection buildings, workers time to actually build it.
3. It takes even more workers in Blight Posts unless you want to die to corruption.
4. You need to make and spend even more resources (Purging Fire).

I look at the benefits and am like "whaaaaaaaat".
So if I want those benefits from rain engines wouldn't it be infinitely better to just build another building of the same type? You'll end up:
1. Needing LESS workers.
2. Better benefits than one building with rain engine benefits cranked to max 24/7.
3. Ton of planning time that can be spent on something else.

Only benefit I see so far is increased yield from specific resource node. Does it really pay for all the fuss associated with rain engines? Where am I wrong?

[Stevie Nyx]

Their biggest impact in P20 is using it for resolve during a storm.

Other things to consider are;
1) There are cornerstones/quests for which you may want blightrot.
2) You may have limited or only be able to of bought ingredients so an increased chance to double yield is invaluable.
3) Sometimes speed is imperative to getting stuff out for a glade event.

Edit: Also cornerstones/quests for using water in an engine.

[Rumparum]

That answer almost sounds like I wasn't wrong after all

Originally posted by Stevie Nyx:

Their biggest impact in P20 is using it for resolve during a storm.

How? I don't see anything mentioning resolve in their benefits. Maybe I'm looking at wrong buildings?

Originally posted by Stevie Nyx:

1) There are cornerstones/quests for which you may want blightrot.

Aka artificial reason for ever using it. Why would Smoldering city ever send you quests to use subpar method of supporting it? Lore kinda breaks down on this one.

Originally posted by Stevie Nyx:

2) You may have limited or only be able to of bought ingredients so an increased chance to double yield is invaluable.

Yea that's one argument that makes sense to me. Very specific scenario. Also again - you're probably better off just building another of the same building and discovering more glades.

Originally posted by Stevie Nyx:

3) Sometimes speed is imperative to getting stuff out for a glade event.

Not sure what you mean. Collection is faster with 2 buildings of the same type by a LOT. Think of all the fuss and time you spend setting up rain engines while second building is just "plop" - and its there ready to collect faster than one rain engine-boosted building ever will. If not - just place 3-4 more. Damn - probably building 10 is still less resource/time consuming.

Like I've said in original post - just one benefit of increased yield from specific resource node. If it's truly inefficient then I'd find "do it cause quest tells you to" pretty lame explanation cause then lore and logic pretty much breaks apart.

I wonder what others think.

[KD.AltQQ]

I play P20 and just reforged the adamantine seal.
I won 15 straight settlements that cycle all on P20 and lost none.
I did NOT use a single drop of rainwater in engines (I used some for quests and porridge and greenhouses) but NOT with pipes.

Rainpunk simply sucks and is not worth the trouble. I roll my eyes whenever the Queen tells me to use certain rainwater in engines for an order (I always pick the other order or leave it unfinished). Your majesty, that mechanism sucks and it is NEVER going to happen with this viceroy here.

As if the 10 cysts you get every 3rd year is not bad enough for your fuel situation (on maps like marshlands or coral forest and you failed to find coal in the several glades you opened), why on earth would I want more cysts? And if I have a surplus of coal or sea marrow on maps where I do get a good fuel roll, both resources sell for a lot of amber (especially on trade routes).

Glade events need rushing--why don't you have a trader in town and why did you open that glade if you are not ready? Moreover, the fact that you have no idea what type of rainwater is required means you either use the rain collector (waste of parts, really) in all seasons or you went all out and found 3 geysers of each type.

[Ariakan]

Main point - double craft chance. Make the most out of the limited resources/time.

[Ariakan]

To the guy above - i also just forged 20 seal and used rainwater in every single game. Playing without rainwater sucks. Fight me.

[Ariakan]

Originally posted by author:

Think of all the fuss and time you spend setting up rain engines while second building is just "plop" - and its there ready to collect faster than one rain engine-boosted building ever will. If not - just place 3-4 more. Damn - probably building 10 is still less resource/time consuming.

Prestige will slap you hard with this mindset with increased building cost and much more troubles connected to extra population and forest agression. It's much easier to slap pipes on a building when you have gayser/collector going than drop 2nd building.

[Ariakan]

Also regarding resolve boost - when you install pipes there are 2 switches - right one allows you to spend rainwater to give +5/+10 resolve boost to dudes in that particular builing.

[kory]

On higher difficulties you get blight naturally over time, so you need to build a blight post anyway, and the extra blight from rain engines is quite small, so that particular point doesn't hurt too much.

The extra production chance is big, you cant achieve that with just another building since that extra building will consume extra of your finite input resources, extra production chance effectively created extra resources.

The resolve boost that you get from the right side switch can be a lifesaver.

One last note, the basic raincatcher sort of sucks, all the basic buildings do, so if you judge rainpunk off of that basic building, it will appear a little weak.

[Hariman]

I've found that, with a building like the Workshop for Plank/Fabric/Brick production, doubling output via Storm Water is vital to only having one instead of two or three of them going on fast growing high building material demand settlements.

Or settlements where you get a Humans, Fox, and Beavers with plank heavy buildings.

Also, FOOD output without building more than one of each building so that you can get everybody fed.

[KD.AltQQ]

Originally posted by Ariakan:

Originally posted by author:

Think of all the fuss and time you spend setting up rain engines while second building is just "plop" - and its there ready to collect faster than one rain engine-boosted building ever will. If not - just place 3-4 more. Damn - probably building 10 is still less resource/time consuming.

Prestige will slap you hard with this mindset with increased building cost and much more troubles connected to extra population and forest agression. It's much easier to slap pipes on a building when you have gayser/collector going than drop 2nd building.

I can easily build another production building (planks, bricks, fabric) and unless they are service buildings (like tavern or guildhouse, which rainwater doesn't work for anyway) I guarantee the price of the materials for a 2nd copy is going to be practically cheaper than the price of 4 pipes (especially now that you can sell pipes on trade routes). Moreover, the building is salvageable and is made from easily-sourced materials you are practically guaranteed to get every map some way or other; pipes you spend are not (except on coral forest) and they are lost forever once assigned to a building.

If they made pipes/bars cheaper to buy from traders, or more accessible in general, or at least SALVAGEABLE such that you can move them between buildings maybe I might give this mechanism a 2nd consideration. As things are now, you are better off selling the starting pipes away on a trade route (maybe save some for a geyser pump--at least that one is automatable) and then use that amber to buy whatever you need.

[Samseng Yik]

Rain engine help your productivity more resource efficient.
example, human who doing farming type building, has bonus chance to double yield.
Then let say you get another 20% from hearth.
Rain engine give 25% I think. then Passive 10%.

Also, speed up production also make you win game with shorter year.
You don't need to care corruption until near 90%.

As for water collection, if you use heavily a certain water type.
Then geyser collector is better than generic collector.

Currently I love to produce luxury food combo with geyser.
This is what I did yesterday
A green water geyser with robot (no need manpower)
3 worker in Greenhouse (mushroom and herb, by using green water)
Tea house and Apothecary, both using green water.
Skyrocket my luxury tea and porridge production.

[AlexGK]

Rainpunk is essential. The sooner you learn how to abuse it the better.
There are cornerstones that you can get that generate stuff when you remove cysts. Wincon on their own.

[el Darkness]

How much manpower you lose/gain with Rainwater? That depends on how you use it. Before we go into details I will say that Ranincollector is a basic building and as such it is weak so I will consider using geysers.

-Water Pump is not very expensive building, and uses materials you are starting with that no other building uses as construction materials (plus some planks).
-You can connect several buildings to pipe network with only Pipes.
-First production buff gives you 50% speed boost, we can say that 2 workers using this buff will work just like 3 workers (in fact slightly worse, but difference is small so lets round it up). So yeah, you do not get a net benefit for having 2 workers getting benefit while 3rd worker is pumping water... unless you will have more workers using it or increase power of the engines to 2nd or 3rd level.
-If you do not have enough people to man the Pump, you can upgrade it with a water pumping bot that is relatively cheap. No more manpower needed.
-Bonus chance for double production can give you more products for the same resource/manpower cost.
-Rain engines can also be used to boost Resolve of people working with them, this buff is quite big.

All of these you get for a couple of cysts per year.

I think Rainwater is a resource that will grant you benefits if you use it, but by no means it is mandatory to use. There are people that actively avoid them at highest difficulty (this means you do not need Rainwater) and there are people who could not imagine their settlements without it.

[AlexGK]

I would consider raincollector only if I have foxes or extra parts or cornerstone. Otherwise explore until I find a geyser that suits a critical building and man it with one bot only. Then proceed with another type of water as needed, until you have them all.
Its not worth it to produce the water and clear the cysts. Either free water from bot, cornerstone for removing cysts or situationally foxes/extra parts if I get early green water food producing building that I have ingredients for.
Thats the beauty of the game - the strategy is different every time and no two games are alike.
Take a minute, pause the game at the start and think what is the best way to move forward.

[RonEmpire]

1. They have chance to proc and speed up production with dial at level 2.
Best use of them in field kitchen early on to stretch your food. It's a huge boost when they proc and you get those complex food made fast to move resolve.

2. Resolve boost when you need to keep people from leaving during the storm or need to turn that dial up to meet the threshold.

While yes, you can play with out rain engine, its amazing to have them. Especially when you get cornerstones like Baptism of Fire and Burnt to Crisp. The rain engine generates the blightrot cyst. And filling dish is great too. Gotta burn the green water to generate more.

If you're not using Rain Engine your math is off.

I've been playing with Rainpunk since the experimental for it back in Dec. I've tested it without it for a very long time and used to think it was not needed. Since then I have been installing them in almost every building. I can tell you it makes a huge difference.