This game's poor design is hidden by RNG

[The adventures of Lyonic!]

A friend recommended this game saying it was like "slay the spire" but with building a city. I checked it out and while it does not really match the above, i took the bait.

I am a long time city builder/rts/strategy old man gamer.

My top games would include, Caesar 3, Alpha Centauri, Total War, Age of Empires 2, Warcraft 3, Command and Conquer, The Settlers etc etc.

While I am sure I am forgetting some important ones, the ones that stand out for me is

Caesar 3 = Where you have to fulfil needs of your houses to "level them up" - giving them exotic food, furniture. I think of it like "resolve" in this game.
Visually, people who know what im talking about, will remember fondly the warehouses being the eye to your empire. Actually seeing the goods stack up gave at a glance, an insight into what that area did in terms of for the economy.
Can't see anything here though....The trade is just.. where are the convoys coming to pick up goods? such a shame. There is a big difference in gaming and immersion to seeing the goods come and go.
The Settlers = Very similar in terms of, each step of the production process needs to be optimised to give the most bang for your buck.
In this game its just "be close to a warehouse", no need for porters or transporting the actual physical item - its just a magic building, transportation etc.

The RNG can be disgusting to where it removes the challenge of the game. For example, lets say I crack open 2 glades and and have fertile soil on both. I take grain with a small farm as grain seems to be the thing this game is run on - then when the trader arrives he offers me something that gives +1 to grain or for every 25 +1. Even farmer speed, carry etc. The game is over for me at this point. When you have something you can sell to a trader that you can spam...

Im like 100 hours in and im really thinking this is so hollow, like soulless in a way.

Is it worth spending more time in, diluting my blueprint and cornerstone pool so everything is even more swung for RNG.

((If you are under 30 please don't reply to this post, it's nothing personal but your micro-transaction attitude destroyed REAL gaming. How do I know? I STILL play the games listed above))

Will I still be loading this game up in 20 years?

[CroaksAlot]

3-17-74, work for you?

This is a unique take on a few genres and still being tweaked. I'm a casual gamer and have been since pong. I thoroughly enjoy this game. At lvl 15 and the tower pretty built up. I still have a hard time on viceroy so, maybe I just suck or haven't quite got it yet but, to say it's easy ya'll must play nothing but games like this. Regardless, the point people seem to forget and the question I seldomly see answered. Is it fun? I would say yes. This is a game, unless you're getting paid to play it, quit taking it so seriously. Yeah it has it's flaws but, what doesn't? And comparing games seems kind of silly. If you want to play a game that's already been made, go for it. If you want to try something new and be part of building it, keep playing.

[schnappkatze]

On top of what everyone said: You are also comparing a small and relatively cheap indie game to the former titans of their genre. Yes, it is no surprise that you don't like this game as much as freaking Age of Empires 2 or Warcraft 3, those were some of the best games of their time - and also you have nostalgia for them, which clouds the image even more.

See it this way: You got 100 hours out of a small 20 buck game, that is a lot of game per buck.

Just because I am curious: Were there any builder games in the last 10 years that were to your liking? I am also especially fond of the old settler games, I get what you mean, there is no real Wuselfaktor here at work.

[Spacesuit Spiff]

I'm with you on the traders, the strat is basically to put the trading post in the furthest corner of the first big glade because the position doesn't matter. Hoping that's a future update.

As for the rest, others have already put it better, but this is a small game that's unapologetically going for a specific vision. It's not gonna have everything everyone wants and it makes some really weird choices, I'm quite happy with it but if it's not for you that's fine.

[Dominions 4]

Sorry you were misled by your friend.

lol

[The adventures of Lyonic!]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Spacesuit Spiff:

I'm with you on the traders, the strat is basically to put the trading post in the furthest corner of the first big glade because the position doesn't matter. Hoping that's a future update.

As for the rest, others have already put it better, but this is a small game that's unapologetically going for a specific vision. It's not gonna have everything everyone wants and it makes some really weird choices, I'm quite happy with it but if it's not for you that's fine.

The interconnected warehouses is just silly for a game that copies the settler style, item components. They could make portal open and traders coming in and out idk. I just think the game let itself down visually.

[The adventures of Lyonic!]

Ursprungligen skrivet av schnappkatze:

On top of what everyone said: You are also comparing a small and relatively cheap indie game to the former titans of their genre. Yes, it is no surprise that you don't like this game as much as freaking Age of Empires 2 or Warcraft 3, those were some of the best games of their time - and also you have nostalgia for them, which clouds the image even more.

See it this way: You got 100 hours out of a small 20 buck game, that is a lot of game per buck.

Just because I am curious: Were there any builder games in the last 10 years that were to your liking? I am also especially fond of the old settler games, I get what you mean, there is no real Wuselfaktor here at work.

They are Billions was pretty good, civ and total war games have their empire building side too.

[The adventures of Lyonic!]

Ursprungligen skrivet av CroaksAlot:

3-17-74, work for you?

This is a unique take on a few genres and still being tweaked. I'm a casual gamer and have been since pong. I thoroughly enjoy this game. At lvl 15 and the tower pretty built up. I still have a hard time on viceroy so, maybe I just suck or haven't quite got it yet but, to say it's easy ya'll must play nothing but games like this. Regardless, the point people seem to forget and the question I seldomly see answered. Is it fun? I would say yes. This is a game, unless you're getting paid to play it, quit taking it so seriously. Yeah it has it's flaws but, what doesn't? And comparing games seems kind of silly. If you want to play a game that's already been made, go for it. If you want to try something new and be part of building it, keep playing.

If i want to critique something, ill do it. If you don't want to read it - don't. I think people wanting to silencer others is wrong :)

[el Darkness]

Ursprungligen skrivet av The_Lyonic TTV:

If i want to critique something, ill do it. If you don't want to read it - don't. I think people wanting to silencer others is wrong :)

For one I do not like people criticising something just because they had different expecations, I have seen it too many times. It is wrong to criticise such game like this one for not being like your favourite game that you have fond memories of. If you were looking for a sequel, you are in a wrong place, thats all, it does not mean this game is bad. It is like you criticised McDonalds for not having your favourite soup.

[The adventures of Lyonic!]

Ursprungligen skrivet av el Darkness:

Ursprungligen skrivet av The_Lyonic TTV:

If i want to critique something, ill do it. If you don't want to read it - don't. I think people wanting to silencer others is wrong :)

For one I do not like people criticising something just because they had different expecations, I have seen it too many times. It is wrong to criticise such game like this one for not being like your favourite game that you have fond memories of. If you were looking for a sequel, you are in a wrong place, thats all, it does not mean this game is bad. It is like you criticised McDonalds for not having your favourite soup.

Im sorry but saying that I think the goods should not "teleport" around warehouses. Thats a legit concern. Otherwise, why have a carry capacity for workers at all?

Maybe is because i played EVE Online for 20 years but looking at item amounts, rather than seeing the physical item in a warehouse is not engaging.

[Dominions 4]

How do you explain the gold in warcraft 3 being spent to buy units and upgrades? It went into your main building and then teleported to your other building???

It teleported. It is truly sickening.

[el Darkness]

Maybe you should rather try a game like Factorio, Satisfactory or Dyson Sphere Program? These games are all about logistics and productions chains. Of these three Factorio is oldest and most polished (and with most mods), but the other too are also great if only they match your taste.

[The adventures of Lyonic!]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Dominions 4:

How do you explain the gold in warcraft 3 being spent to buy units and upgrades? It went into your main building and then teleported to your other building???

It teleported. It is truly sickening.

Funny, but the movement of goods is already a massive part of this game because of glade events,

If only the devs were not so lazy in this regard, think on this if you can see the vision.

Opening a forbidden glade? Might want to move some resources near the opening.
Maybe you want to move your trade goods nearer the trade post?

[CroaksAlot]

Ursprungligen skrivet av The_Lyonic TTV:

Ursprungligen skrivet av CroaksAlot:

3-17-74, work for you?

This is a unique take on a few genres and still being tweaked. I'm a casual gamer and have been since pong. I thoroughly enjoy this game. At lvl 15 and the tower pretty built up. I still have a hard time on viceroy so, maybe I just suck or haven't quite got it yet but, to say it's easy ya'll must play nothing but games like this. Regardless, the point people seem to forget and the question I seldomly see answered. Is it fun? I would say yes. This is a game, unless you're getting paid to play it, quit taking it so seriously. Yeah it has it's flaws but, what doesn't? And comparing games seems kind of silly. If you want to play a game that's already been made, go for it. If you want to try something new and be part of building it, keep playing.

If i want to critique something, ill do it. If you don't want to read it - don't. I think people wanting to silencer others is wrong :)

If you share you're opinion on any kind of media, expect feedback. Please tell me where I tried to silence you. I feel the same way, and I wanted to critique your opinion.

[The adventures of Lyonic!]

Ursprungligen skrivet av CroaksAlot:

Ursprungligen skrivet av The_Lyonic TTV:

If i want to critique something, ill do it. If you don't want to read it - don't. I think people wanting to silencer others is wrong :)

If you share you're opinion on any kind of media, expect feedback. Please tell me where I tried to silence you. I feel the same way, and I wanted to critique your opinion.

"unless you're getting paid to play it, quit taking it so seriously" - That's your casual approach to gaming and that's fine but I don't share it.

"it's flaws but, what doesn't?" - under that logic you cant point out and flaws ever

"comparing games seems kind of silly" - We compare everything to everything all the time. "It tastes like X - It drives like a Y" etc etc

Maybe you should stick to your casual gaming ;) or your "King of Kinks" gaming adventures XD

[CroaksAlot]

Ursprungligen skrivet av The_Lyonic TTV:

Ursprungligen skrivet av CroaksAlot:

If you share you're opinion on any kind of media, expect feedback. Please tell me where I tried to silence you. I feel the same way, and I wanted to critique your opinion.

"unless you're getting paid to play it, quit taking it so seriously" - That's your casual approach to gaming and that's fine but I don't share it.

"it's flaws but, what doesn't?" - under that logic you cant point out and flaws ever

"comparing games seems kind of silly" - We compare everything to everything all the time. "It tastes like X - It drives like a Y" etc etc

Maybe you should stick to your casual gaming ;) or your "King of Kinks" gaming adventures XD

You still haven't made your point. When did I try to silence you?