The Ranch seems far too good

[Ares]

I've had a good amount of games with the Ranch now and every time it solves so many issues. The fact that it converts common food resources into rarer ones with a bunch of options, while also multiplying it, is already immensely useful. But then it also provides an easy supply of leather, which is even rarer and incredibly useful in its own right as well.

I feel like it should really have a negative conversion rate instead of a positive one. In its current state I just can't imagine any scenario where I wouldn't pick a Ranch during the early/mid-game.

[Kynslagh]

For comparison I checked the pottery and barrel alternatives to ranch and they both allow a similar amount of needs to be fulfilled.

1) Clay pit + greenhouse - can do 9 out of 12 needs and provides pottery for ale
clay -> pottery
clay+herbs -> crystalized dew -> simple tools/barrels
reeds+crystalized dew -> training gear
reeds -> cloth -> coats
mushrooms+herbs -> flour -> pie
mushrooms+herbs -> flour -> biscuits
herbs -> incense
herbs + oil/eggs -> cosmetics
reeds/mushrooms -> pottery -> wine
wine -> scrolls
mushrooms+pottery -> pickled goods

2) Grove + greenhouse - can do 9 out of 12 needs and provides barrels for ale
resin -> incense
resin -> cosmetics
crystalized dew -> training gear/barrels/tools
mushrooms -> wine
wine -> scrolls
mushrooms+herbs -> flour -> pie
mushrooms+herbs -> flour -> biscuits
mushrooms+barrels -> pickled goods
mushrooms+eggs/roots -> skewers

[solarusadam]

Yeah that's more like it! Don't touch my easy MEAT Starter!!! (Harpie Screams%%%))

[Voidmonger]

Цитата допису Olleus:

Yeah, it probably is.

The leather production is nice, not because leather is rare, but because it's a way of doubling the resources that go into making fabric. Making eggs is almost entirely useless IMO, unless you're on a very strange map where you're not scrapping together any other food to go into skewers or pickled food.

But the meat production is godly. Not only does it scale up inputs to outputs, but it's fast as well. A single worker just making meat in a ranch can produce more than enough to food 60 people through jerkys/skewers. For example, a farm can make grain + veg, the ranch turns the grain into meat, the meat becomes Jerky, which you can then be further turned into skewers using the veg, Or combine meat and veg into pickled food directly. Either way, two buildings give you all the raw ingredients to make most of the food in the game, and does so in huge quantities with little labour.

I actually think the best thing would be to make it so that the ranch can only be built on fertile land; probably shrink it from 3x3 to 2x2 at the same time. That way it behaves more like the greenhouse or claypit - it converts basic resources into more advanced gatherable ones - but there are restrictions on how it can do that. Probably slow down the production rate too, so it requires more labour and cant single handedly feed everyone. I think multiplying the inputs is too ingrained in the game's food production chains and ethos to change.

is it that op to devote so many buildings and workers just to make food that in the end doesn't do much to win?

[Olleus]

Цитата допису Voidmonger:

Цитата допису Olleus:

Yeah, it probably is.

The leather production is nice, not because leather is rare, but because it's a way of doubling the resources that go into making fabric. Making eggs is almost entirely useless IMO, unless you're on a very strange map where you're not scrapping together any other food to go into skewers or pickled food.

But the meat production is godly. Not only does it scale up inputs to outputs, but it's fast as well. A single worker just making meat in a ranch can produce more than enough to food 60 people through jerkys/skewers. For example, a farm can make grain + veg, the ranch turns the grain into meat, the meat becomes Jerky, which you can then be further turned into skewers using the veg, Or combine meat and veg into pickled food directly. Either way, two buildings give you all the raw ingredients to make most of the food in the game, and does so in huge quantities with little labour.

I actually think the best thing would be to make it so that the ranch can only be built on fertile land; probably shrink it from 3x3 to 2x2 at the same time. That way it behaves more like the greenhouse or claypit - it converts basic resources into more advanced gatherable ones - but there are restrictions on how it can do that. Probably slow down the production rate too, so it requires more labour and cant single handedly feed everyone. I think multiplying the inputs is too ingrained in the game's food production chains and ethos to change.

is it that op to devote so many buildings and workers just to make food that in the end doesn't do much to win?

You don't have to do all of it. But you can do any of it. Which means no matter whether you have the carnivore harpies or the vegetarian beavers, no matter what cooking buildings you have, it's a fantastic middle step. Think of it like a flour making building: it's on the way to cooked food. Except that the ranch's output can be eaten directly, so you can set it up faster with less risk, and it takes in a broader range of resources as input, and its output can be used in more cooked foods.

And making food is absolutely crucial not just in winning, but in surviving. One cooked food that each race likes is necessary as a food multiplier (saving labour and parts that would go to camps), and is an easy source of resolve. Even multiple cooked foods is good to get a resolve victory, it's often easier to set up than getting the long production chain of services running.

[Narandia]

Цитата допису Olleus:

And making food is absolutely crucial not just in winning, but in surviving. One cooked food that each race likes is necessary as a food multiplier (saving labour and parts that would go to camps), and is an easy source of resolve. Even multiple cooked foods is good to get a resolve victory, it's often easier to set up than getting the long production chain of services running.

Yeah I've been starting to realize how crucial complex food can be even early on. Hell, even if a race doesn't like the complex food, they will still eat it as a last resort, so the multiplier benefit is still there. Even with just the field kitchen. Plus, biscuits and pies can both be made entirely out of otherwise inedible resources (grain to flour, and herbs).

While also getting more out of herb gardens and small farms to boot.

[Riot]

Thats why i saw ranch twice of twelwe my games. One of those was in marches with infinite meat without trapper's camp.

[Narandia]

Цитата допису Riot:

Thats why i saw ranch twice of twelwe my games. One of those was in marches with infinite meat without trapper's camp.

funny enough even though the ranch may seem a bit redundant for the Marshlands, being able to produce extra leather for fabric still makes it quite useful in a biome with little fertile soil and no direct sources for plant fiber or reeds (or even leather itself, outside of meat nodes with guaranteed extra leather). There are at least grain nodes, plus refining plant fiber and reed from whatever source into extra leather.

[Voidmonger]

Цитата допису Narandia:

Цитата допису Riot:

Thats why i saw ranch twice of twelwe my games. One of those was in marches with infinite meat without trapper's camp.

funny enough even though the ranch may seem a bit redundant for the Marshlands, being able to produce extra leather for fabric still makes it quite useful in a biome with little fertile soil and no direct sources for plant fiber or reeds (or even leather itself, outside of meat nodes with guaranteed extra leather). There are at least grain nodes, plus refining plant fiber and reed from whatever source into extra leather.

i can see its usefulness if you can't get any kind of material for fiber, but im not really seeing it for food. I usually just race tools and random items required for dangerous glade events like resin and whatever the tasks ask for.

[Olleus]

Цитата допису Voidmonger:

i can see its usefulness if you can't get any kind of material for fiber, but im not really seeing it for food. I usually just race tools and random items required for dangerous glade events like resin and whatever the tasks ask for.

Really? Are you ever actually in lack of material for fabric? On most maps you get it for free from trees, and on all you can harvest it without a blueprint. That's pretty much the one resource I _never_ lack.

Meat, on the other hand is great. Jerky and Skewers are the best cooked food in just about every regard, making them the best thing to produce short of building resources or tools. But getting meat (or insects) almost always requires a blueprint - either a camp or a ranch. And the camp isn't an option on biomes that don't have those nodes, or on maps where you haven't found any such nodes. While the ranch produces more meat (typical conditions anyway) with less labour, works anywhere, doesn't run out and takes any one of 4 usually abundant resources.

Marshland is probably the biome where ranch is least useful. Not only is meat abundant on the map, but both the trees and the meat nodes give you leather for free, and fiber/grain/reeds/vegetables to feed the ranch are uncommon.

[bluemonkey]

First time I took ranch to test it out, passed up small farm not realizing the ranch needed grain or plant fiber to work....Failranch was a drag for years (I recall it was Marshlands).

Learning aside, I love a good ranch. Olleus' comparison to a mill is spot on. But like a mill, it's less useful if the inputs are limited or the outputs don't fit into your immediate priorities. It is absolutely perfect for a harpy/lizard population mix...but if there are no beavers, plank & fuel production generally rank as higher concerns for me.

But as usual, a good cornerstone makes all the difference: increasing population from eggs turns the ranch into a hatchery and meat specialization (+meat/25 meat produced) will catapult the ranch to top pick every time.

[WhiteCrow]

Haven't played much so far, but perhaps devs aren't too worried about "OP" buildings and rewards because we're still getting changes to storms and forest difficulty. Things may be skewed right now because the following increase in difficulty hasn't arrived yet.

[NathanXS]

Цитата допису eh:

Цитата допису Samseng Yik:

BY sacrificing these to make water skins, you can't have enough grain for ale right ?

With the basic yield of 6 grain per tile it is a bit unlikely to have enough for everything yes, but there are perks that double all farm field production, give 75% chance of double farm production to people who eat biscuits, and another one for small farm production +50%, it can snowball out of control fairly easily.

Its PLUS 75%, not 75% for double production. So if you have a chance of 2% it incrases o 3.5% to ge double production. (atleast if the tooltips are accurate)

[WadeStar]

The cost of using the ranch is worker time.

Completely disagree that the ranch is somehow OP.

[Spacesuit Spiff]

It's pretty good. For people who take small farm every run it's excellent, I've been taking it less since I started bringing herb garden (which is better due to cornerstones).

idk what should be done with it, if anything. If it needs fertile tiles it loses its apparent purpose, which is 'failsafe if you don't find enough farm spots or big food nodes'. That feels like the correct identity for it anyway, its role as 'add an extra step in the chain to inject more rainwater for multipliers' seems to be how it plays out though. The fact that it doesn't cost Parts, unlike trapper's camp, is another benefit that makes this difficult.

Since I don't think anybody's really thrilled with the current iteration of camps (even though it works fine), if they get reworked again the ranch should be reconsidered as a part of that ecosystem.

[TheoreticalString]

I only really like it on maps where there's not fertile soil. It can really stretch gatherer resources out. Put two lizards in there and a rainwater engine, bam 45% chance of having a double production base. Throw a rainwater engine on a Butcher too, and you can do the following:

5 Vegetables -> 14.5 Meat -> 42.05 Jerky
(With the +10% from the meta upgrades you could potentially do 5->15.5->48.05)

That's a HUGE stretch of a very limited food supply. You can then use that same Ranch+Butcher to do Jerky+Eggs into Skewers to stretch it even further and have very happy lizards.

So if you don't have fertile soil, Ranches (especially with Lizards) are a great alternative to the farm-fertile soil cycle.