The Ranch seems far too good

[Ares]

I've had a good amount of games with the Ranch now and every time it solves so many issues. The fact that it converts common food resources into rarer ones with a bunch of options, while also multiplying it, is already immensely useful. But then it also provides an easy supply of leather, which is even rarer and incredibly useful in its own right as well.

I feel like it should really have a negative conversion rate instead of a positive one. In its current state I just can't imagine any scenario where I wouldn't pick a Ranch during the early/mid-game.

[Olleus]

Yeah, it probably is.

The leather production is nice, not because leather is rare, but because it's a way of doubling the resources that go into making fabric. Making eggs is almost entirely useless IMO, unless you're on a very strange map where you're not scrapping together any other food to go into skewers or pickled food.

But the meat production is godly. Not only does it scale up inputs to outputs, but it's fast as well. A single worker just making meat in a ranch can produce more than enough to food 60 people through jerkys/skewers. For example, a farm can make grain + veg, the ranch turns the grain into meat, the meat becomes Jerky, which you can then be further turned into skewers using the veg, Or combine meat and veg into pickled food directly. Either way, two buildings give you all the raw ingredients to make most of the food in the game, and does so in huge quantities with little labour.

I actually think the best thing would be to make it so that the ranch can only be built on fertile land; probably shrink it from 3x3 to 2x2 at the same time. That way it behaves more like the greenhouse or claypit - it converts basic resources into more advanced gatherable ones - but there are restrictions on how it can do that. Probably slow down the production rate too, so it requires more labour and cant single handedly feed everyone. I think multiplying the inputs is too ingrained in the game's food production chains and ethos to change.

[Kynslagh]

Agreed, but then again the devs added eggs as a possible ingredient for pickled goods in the last update, making ranch even more useful, so I doubt they want to nerf it. Maybe they are intentionally making it the "god building", even though that doesn't really make much sense for a game where every run is supposed to be different.

[Bombaclout]

At higher prestige (currently at 18) I find myself using it less (since BP choices is only 2, it cost a ton of amber when sold by a trader 28 amber and settlers eat too much) and i prefer biscuits since there are a lot of cornerstones that increases productivity with it. All you want is more production in higher difficulty. (and the greenhouse is supper efficient, you only need 1 greenhouse + 1 rain collector and you will have a lot of mushrooms for flour and food which is my go to strategy for prestige)

but yeah I agree that the ranch provides a lot specially you can feed fiber/reeds or even grains for meat which is usually stocked in early games.

[schnappkatze]

Does anyone has a calculation at hand how many meals you get if you go grain -> meat -> jerky or grain -> flour -> Biscuits? Assuming the same production quality.

I wouldn't mind it if it turns out to be the same ratio. Well, the ranch is still extremely useful for eggs and leather, but at least you don't simply get more meals from the same amount of grain,.

Originally posted by Olleus:

I actually think the best thing would be to make it so that the ranch can only be built on fertile land; probably shrink it from 3x3 to 2x2 at the same time. That way it behaves more like the greenhouse or claypit - it converts basic resources into more advanced gatherable ones - but there are restrictions on how it can do that.

I really like that idea, would make the ranch feel more special.

[ACS36]

I disagree.

Ranch is one of the worst buildings in the game. Should never take it outside of extreme situations. The more inputs you have in your production chain in order to get your desired out put the less efficient it is. You always want to gather meat or insects from camps or trees. Same goes for leather. If you can't do that you should be using groves or collecting bars anyways to produce barrels, or clay for pottery.

Taking one resource to create another in order to create another is very sub optimal in this game. At most you want two buildings when possible for your out put.

[Aestrea]

Looks good on paper but so does 1 cloth -> 10 rain coat. You have to factor in that processing time and how fast you are actually consuming those materials. Once you do that, you notice how you need multiple buildings to even achieve a working production line not even mentioning the amount of workers required.

[Ares]

Originally posted by ACS36:

The more inputs you have in your production chain in order to get your desired out put the less efficient it is.

This would be the case if it had a equal or negative conversion rate. At a good positive conversion rate you don't lose any efficiency. You can gather vegetables and run them through your ranch and end up with just as much meat as the same amount of workers would get from gathering meat directly. However you only need half the amount of source material. And iirc the rate on eggs is even better than doubling, which means you end up with more than purely gathering them.

[solarusadam]

Nah! I need my Meat RANCH!!! Don't touch it§§§!!!!!!

[Narandia]

Originally posted by Olleus:

Making eggs is almost entirely useless IMO, unless you're on a very strange map where you're not scrapping together any other food to go into skewers or pickled food.

Or if you got one of the cornerstones that give you extra harpies or lizards for every 25 eggs :P

[Samseng Yik]

Manpower do count as opportunity cost.
It does look really good to dedicate several workers into efficient food production, however. Especially if you can make luxury food keep people produce reputation.

[lethminite]

I think eggs are really good for making provisions, or early game food, before you have complex foods, particularly if you find some plant fiber nodes. Turn 2 plant fiber into 5 eggs.
Meat and leather is obviously where it's biggest strength is, but I like keeping a stock of eggs too, if I don't already have something to easily make provisions out of.

[Kynslagh]

Originally posted by ACS36:

I disagree.

Ranch is one of the worst buildings in the game. Should never take it outside of extreme situations. The more inputs you have in your production chain in order to get your desired out put the less efficient it is. You always want to gather meat or insects from camps or trees. Same goes for leather. If you can't do that you should be using groves or collecting bars anyways to produce barrels, or clay for pottery.

Taking one resource to create another in order to create another is very sub optimal in this game. At most you want two buildings when possible for your out put.

Ranch has several output chains moving through it though. It is a stepping stone towards multiple end products, not just one.

grain -> meat -> jerky
grain -> meat+eggs -> skewers
grain -> eggs/meat -> flour -> pie
grain -> eggs+leather -> waterskins -> pickled goods
grain -> leather -> cloth -> coats
grain -> eggs -> pigment -> cosmetics
grain -> leather -> waterskins -> ale
grain -> leather+meat -> waterskins
grain/meat -> oil (there are only 2 dangerous glade events that can't be completed with oil, so it is almost as good as making basic tools). Those 2 that can't be completed with oil can take cloth, which is infinitely produced from leather.

Not to mention all the other things that ranch indirectly gives to the player like using its main resource grain to make ale and flour (stepping stone for biscuits), its infinite leather output to get waterskins for wine, cloth for species housing etc etc.

Out of the 5 foods, 1 coats and 6 services, it is a direct stepping stone for 7 of them, and
provides synergies through small farm and waterskins for 2 others. The only 3 end products that are unaffected by the ranch build are incense, scrolls and training gear.

[Samseng Yik]

BY sacrificing these to make water skins, you can't have enough grain for ale right ?

[Kynslagh]

Originally posted by Samseng Yik:

BY sacrificing these to make water skins, you can't have enough grain for ale right ?

With the basic yield of 6 grain per tile it is a bit unlikely to have enough for everything yes, but there are perks that double all farm field production, give 75% chance of double farm production to people who eat biscuits, and another one for small farm production +50%, it can snowball out of control fairly easily.

[arjensmit79]

Huh really ?
Never used it.

The way i see it, its nice that you can increase food stuffs in quantity by improving them, but you do need people working in there. They could also be farming or gathering. So if it doesn't double your food count, its inefficient.

I also read somewhere that your people can eat multiple advanced foods, i don't know the details about that, and if anyone can give me the details on that, that would be great. Anyway, if that is true, its even much more inefficient and because that message got stuck in my head and greatly contributes to me feeling that advanced foods are just way too much hassle. (And i never really seem to need the resolve as there are so much simpler ways to gain global resolve)