Is every boss in this game as terrible as Enenra?

[Sharkofspace]

I -was- having a lot of fun until I got to this dumpster fire of a boss. Is "Tedious, overinflated damage sponge" just how this game does bosses?

[Sharkofspace]

JtDarth a écrit :

Sharkofspace a écrit :

There is no such explanation, voiced or otherwise. After looking at some gameplay, it turns out I've been doing it this whole time, but didn't know that's what it was. It just looked like some enemies would randomly flinch more when you hit them sometimes because there was nothing that implied it was anything more. The game wouldn't be so frustrating if it just explained its mechanics clearly.

Apparently I'm supposed to block in mid stance and dodge in low? When was the game planning on explaining that to me? Shouldn't it do that BEFORE 20 hours?

I need flux? Then maybe it should have given me flux then instead of just hoping I would choose it first over everything else across 15 separate skill trees.

I get that Nioh players hate Souls players, but acting like I have no idea how to hold a controller because I also like the more popular series is just stupid. People have been saying things like "Try landing burst counters" and "Try actually attacking" and "Stop getting hit", but nobody thought to mention the secret weak point on his back???

Again, clearly the game isn't telling me something, because I run out of ki after three attacks and have to back off and wait or just die. Especially in the yokai realm, AKA half of the enemies in the game.

Oh dear god, you really aren't doing much to make yourself look any better when it comes to the paying attention aspect. Just making yourself look more and more like the exact type of typical souls player who rails on the game because they just CANNOT be bothered to accept that the game is different and they should be paying attention to the mechanics.

LITERALLY all of that is explained to you in-game. You get specific tutorials on first encounter, but also have the info stored in the 'amrita memories' tab, which pops that helpful exclamation mark, every time a new entry is added.
'I can only do three attacks and then I'm out of ki' Because you are utterly failing to use one of the core mechanics, called the ki pulse, which is explained to you, again, in the FIRST ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ LEVEL.

The yokai break thing isn't quite as explicit, at least the voiced portion, but I didn't feel like starting a new character to check the associated popup. I believe the exact quote is along the lines of 'the laws that govern the ki of yokai are unnatural, should you use certain skills to shatter their bodies, the source of their ki will follow'. Meanwhile the majority of yokai (inluding bosses) will have GIANT YELLOW GLOWING bits, to tell you exactly which bits shatter. Even without an explicit explanation, if you are actually paying attention, you will see the horn on an enki shatter at about the same time as all of his purple ki bar suddenly dissapears. From there it is basic logic. Even basic general video game logic should tell you the glowy bits are either extra difficult to damage, or a weakspot.

As for flux? The simple fact that it's in the section of the samurai skill tree that ALREADY HAS A BUNCH OF SKILLS UNLOCKED, that represent your core necessity skills, like blocking and dodging, should tell you on it's own that skills over there might be important. Not to mention the existence of a bunch of other skill trees means nothing when all the skill points are specific to individual skill trees, with only TWO trees being independent of a specific source, those being shiftling and samurai skill trees.


Once again, you skipped the tutorial prompts, and are now being EXCEEDINGLY bullheaded about how it's the game's fault you didn't pay attention and are struggling, claiming it didn't tell you anything about basic mechanics, when it does in the first level.

You honestly think I beat six bosses plus however many missions between them without using a single ki pulse on my first blind playthrough? That's obviously not the case, but if it was, wouldn't that actually make it MORE impressive? Of course I'm ki pulsing, and I know you're just going to decide I'm not perfectly timing them, but I am, and I still run out of ki after doing two strings. I don't know what mechanic I'm missing that lets me attack and dodge forever like everyone else does, but if anyone cares to actually enlighten me instead of just growling about Dark Souls and insulting me, I'm all ears.

"There are some skills unlocked in this tree from the start, therefor you should have known you need to take flux ASAP!" Yeah, no. Wanna try that one again?

As for the horn breaking thing, yes, that's the exact quote. A voice says it when you pick up an item at the end of the first mission. If we're being generous, you could describe that as a very cryptic tutorial, but why? The voice lines when you pick up items are just fluff, so why would they make ONE random voice line actually be a vague riddle and have that be the only explanation of what is apparently a key mechanic of the game? Why not just explain it normally when you encounter that enki in the first mission, instead of giving you a riddle at the end of said mission that sorta kinda hints at how the mechanic works? I didn't skip anything, this game is just terrible at explaining its own rules and mechanics.

You aren't even making sense at this point. You just keep making stuff up about me because you hate Dark Souls so much. Not my fault they make better games :)

[DooG Is Eternal]

author a écrit :

Of course I'm ki pulsing, and I know you're just going to decide I'm not perfectly timing them, but I am, and I still run out of ki after doing two strings. I don't know what mechanic I'm missing that lets me attack and dodge forever like everyone else does,t

The most to least refund in ki in the following order.
Flux 2> Ki Flux> Ki Pulse.
Flux 2 you need to flux into the other 2 stance quickly like within a sec or it won't refund the additional ki.

For example Attack in high stance and flux into low then mid immediately.

[Ray]

Sharkofspace a écrit :

JtDarth a écrit :

Oh dear god, you really aren't doing much to make yourself look any better when it comes to the paying attention aspect. Just making yourself look more and more like the exact type of typical souls player who rails on the game because they just CANNOT be bothered to accept that the game is different and they should be paying attention to the mechanics.

LITERALLY all of that is explained to you in-game. You get specific tutorials on first encounter, but also have the info stored in the 'amrita memories' tab, which pops that helpful exclamation mark, every time a new entry is added.
'I can only do three attacks and then I'm out of ki' Because you are utterly failing to use one of the core mechanics, called the ki pulse, which is explained to you, again, in the FIRST ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ LEVEL.

The yokai break thing isn't quite as explicit, at least the voiced portion, but I didn't feel like starting a new character to check the associated popup. I believe the exact quote is along the lines of 'the laws that govern the ki of yokai are unnatural, should you use certain skills to shatter their bodies, the source of their ki will follow'. Meanwhile the majority of yokai (inluding bosses) will have GIANT YELLOW GLOWING bits, to tell you exactly which bits shatter. Even without an explicit explanation, if you are actually paying attention, you will see the horn on an enki shatter at about the same time as all of his purple ki bar suddenly dissapears. From there it is basic logic. Even basic general video game logic should tell you the glowy bits are either extra difficult to damage, or a weakspot.

As for flux? The simple fact that it's in the section of the samurai skill tree that ALREADY HAS A BUNCH OF SKILLS UNLOCKED, that represent your core necessity skills, like blocking and dodging, should tell you on it's own that skills over there might be important. Not to mention the existence of a bunch of other skill trees means nothing when all the skill points are specific to individual skill trees, with only TWO trees being independent of a specific source, those being shiftling and samurai skill trees.


Once again, you skipped the tutorial prompts, and are now being EXCEEDINGLY bullheaded about how it's the game's fault you didn't pay attention and are struggling, claiming it didn't tell you anything about basic mechanics, when it does in the first level.

You honestly think I beat six bosses plus however many missions between them without using a single ki pulse on my first blind playthrough? That's obviously not the case, but if it was, wouldn't that actually make it MORE impressive? Of course I'm ki pulsing, and I know you're just going to decide I'm not perfectly timing them, but I am, and I still run out of ki after doing two strings. I don't know what mechanic I'm missing that lets me attack and dodge forever like everyone else does, but if anyone cares to actually enlighten me instead of just growling about Dark Souls and insulting me, I'm all ears.

"There are some skills unlocked in this tree from the start, therefor you should have known you need to take flux ASAP!" Yeah, no. Wanna try that one again?

As for the horn breaking thing, yes, that's the exact quote. A voice says it when you pick up an item at the end of the first mission. If we're being generous, you could describe that as a very cryptic tutorial, but why? The voice lines when you pick up items are just fluff, so why would they make ONE random voice line actually be a vague riddle and have that be the only explanation of what is apparently a key mechanic of the game? Why not just explain it normally when you encounter that enki in the first mission, instead of giving you a riddle at the end of said mission that sorta kinda hints at how the mechanic works? I didn't skip anything, this game is just terrible at explaining its own rules and mechanics.

You aren't even making sense at this point. You just keep making stuff up about me because you hate Dark Souls so much. Not my fault they make better games :)

Dude, no one is forcing you to play Nioh. Why are you even playing the game if you're not having fun? Just to bash the game? Honestly most of your criticisms don't make sense either.

If someone like me who doesn't like Souls games at all( to the point of hate other than maybe Sekiro) loves Nioh, I don't know what to tell you. Just drop the game. There's no need to play every Sousls game on the planet.

[JtDarth]

Sharkofspace a écrit :

JtDarth a écrit :

Oh dear god, you really aren't doing much to make yourself look any better when it comes to the paying attention aspect. Just making yourself look more and more like the exact type of typical souls player who rails on the game because they just CANNOT be bothered to accept that the game is different and they should be paying attention to the mechanics.

LITERALLY all of that is explained to you in-game. You get specific tutorials on first encounter, but also have the info stored in the 'amrita memories' tab, which pops that helpful exclamation mark, every time a new entry is added.
'I can only do three attacks and then I'm out of ki' Because you are utterly failing to use one of the core mechanics, called the ki pulse, which is explained to you, again, in the FIRST ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ LEVEL.

The yokai break thing isn't quite as explicit, at least the voiced portion, but I didn't feel like starting a new character to check the associated popup. I believe the exact quote is along the lines of 'the laws that govern the ki of yokai are unnatural, should you use certain skills to shatter their bodies, the source of their ki will follow'. Meanwhile the majority of yokai (inluding bosses) will have GIANT YELLOW GLOWING bits, to tell you exactly which bits shatter. Even without an explicit explanation, if you are actually paying attention, you will see the horn on an enki shatter at about the same time as all of his purple ki bar suddenly dissapears. From there it is basic logic. Even basic general video game logic should tell you the glowy bits are either extra difficult to damage, or a weakspot.

As for flux? The simple fact that it's in the section of the samurai skill tree that ALREADY HAS A BUNCH OF SKILLS UNLOCKED, that represent your core necessity skills, like blocking and dodging, should tell you on it's own that skills over there might be important. Not to mention the existence of a bunch of other skill trees means nothing when all the skill points are specific to individual skill trees, with only TWO trees being independent of a specific source, those being shiftling and samurai skill trees.


Once again, you skipped the tutorial prompts, and are now being EXCEEDINGLY bullheaded about how it's the game's fault you didn't pay attention and are struggling, claiming it didn't tell you anything about basic mechanics, when it does in the first level.

You honestly think I beat six bosses plus however many missions between them without using a single ki pulse on my first blind playthrough? That's obviously not the case, but if it was, wouldn't that actually make it MORE impressive? Of course I'm ki pulsing, and I know you're just going to decide I'm not perfectly timing them, but I am, and I still run out of ki after doing two strings. I don't know what mechanic I'm missing that lets me attack and dodge forever like everyone else does, but if anyone cares to actually enlighten me instead of just growling about Dark Souls and insulting me, I'm all ears.

"There are some skills unlocked in this tree from the start, therefor you should have known you need to take flux ASAP!" Yeah, no. Wanna try that one again?

As for the horn breaking thing, yes, that's the exact quote. A voice says it when you pick up an item at the end of the first mission. If we're being generous, you could describe that as a very cryptic tutorial, but why? The voice lines when you pick up items are just fluff, so why would they make ONE random voice line actually be a vague riddle and have that be the only explanation of what is apparently a key mechanic of the game? Why not just explain it normally when you encounter that enki in the first mission, instead of giving you a riddle at the end of said mission that sorta kinda hints at how the mechanic works? I didn't skip anything, this game is just terrible at explaining its own rules and mechanics.

You aren't even making sense at this point. You just keep making stuff up about me because you hate Dark Souls so much. Not my fault they make better games :)

Jesus ♥♥♥♥ dude, you keep pulling ♥♥♥♥ out of your ass, and at this point you are even putting words in my mouth, not to mention DRASTICALLY changing your own statements.

'obviously I'm ki pulsing'
No, obviously, you aren't. You do not lose the full bar of ki in three attacks if you are using ki-pulsing properly. OF course, then you reworded to '2 strings' which is a VERY different situation than '3 attacks'. Nice goalpost shifting. Even with '2 strings' that's not going to take your whole key bar, unless what you THINK is a string is actually not. Maybe full high stance strings with an active at the end could, but that's both dependent on the what weapon you are using, and also on you not paying attention, and not noticing that high stance is your 'heavy' attacks, not your 'spam long combos' stance. You want long string chains without ki issues, you go for mid and low stance. Your comments about not knowing about stance properties until 20 hours in, just circle right back to you not bothering to actually pay attention to what is going on on-screen. If you had, you'd have noticed that dodges in low stance take less stamina. From that it's not hard to extrapolate from movement speed that the other stances also have changes. High stance has a modifier to damage and ki damage (which can be tested somewhat by way of the training grounds and a skill present on all stances. I say somewhat because there are a FKton of variables in play in the damage formula that make getting definitive results hard), and mid stance has a block modifier. Even just observing the basic attack strings for your weapon of choice should have clued you in a bit. High attack has vertical oriented, strong single target attacks, mid stance tends to be more horizontal, with a range advantage over the oher stances, in most cases, and the low stance tends to be very short range, weak attacks, that come out fast.

'growling at souls players and insulting'
I have yet to 'insult' you. I've simply pointed out that you keep demonstrating an absolute REFUSAL to stop and learn, and would instead rather embarrass yourself horribly on the forums for the game.

'item pickups just contain fluff'
No. Abjectly wrong, especially on the first mission. Most the ones in the first mission are direct comments/introductions on game mechanics and lead up to a more 'gamey' tutorial prompt right after.
You have everything from a heavy armor pickup leading to a comment about the wearer being unable to move properly because of encumbrance, to strong hints at what ochoko cups are for, to one pointing out the Scampuss at the top of the stairs and indicating it is not hostile, to comments about ki damage on yokai, comments about using ki pulse to regain ki faster, etc.
Later ones often give some degree of hint about what is coming up ahead or help establish story beats.

'skills unlocked so should pick flux ASAP'
Not even close to what I said. I said that it should be an indicator that skills on that side of the board might be important. Realistically, you should be checking over the entire board to begin with before putting points into anything.

'core mechanic not explained'
Meanwhile, if you were paying attention while playing, it would not have taken you hours in to realize what happens when you break the glowy bit. It's literally a glowing weakspot. You just make yourself look worse and worse as you keep trying to defend yourself.


'if the game would just explain it's mechanics'
This, coming from someone who in the same post asserts the souls games are better? Talk about sinking your own boat. Remind me again, how many souls games have important story sidequests that you will never be able to complete organically because of how convoluted and specific they are? Which one has a tendency to inflict you with difficult to remove semi-permanent debuffs that require specific items to remove, but doesn't actually explain it before doing it to you? Oh, right. Fromsoft games. Which thrive on telling the player pretty much nothing about their mechanics, keeping story choices as obscure as possible, and requiring data miners to figure out how quest paths work.
FFS. I AM a souls player. I've played all of them, and own all of them but Bloodborne, having cut my teeth on the OG demon's souls. The difference is, I didn't go into Nioh expecting it to play similar. I went in with an open mind, and took the time to OBSERVE WHAT WAS GOING ON ON-SCREEN to understand the game.


'not making sense' You are the one not making sense, considering you are continuing to mindlessly try to shift the blame for the issue onto anything and everything other than your own inability to pay attention to the info the game gives you.

[SadPlatty©]

OP - sounds like you should spend a little time grinding out levels; noted you said you where lvl13 at Enenra, but I remember being at least 25 or so (traditionally I play sloppy the first chapter to build up a grave to level every couple of deaths).

Additionally, I don't know how much time you spent between hitting Enenra with the water, but do remember that sometimes you may not want to immediately use a gimmick like that - get some beats in first, and maybe let it wear out the status; if the effect causes them to react, it can be better to re-proc than keep it going (vs fire or poison, which you would want to stay as long as possible).

Lastly, hit every single red grave you can; it doesn't matter if you die, what matters is they can drop good gear that can maybe be what you need. Every weapon has a naturally embued version with one (or in special cases 2) of the elements; finding the weapon you excel at and then mastering it fast can be key to turning something like this easy.

And farming may suck, but it really helps when you get stuck. Never thought I would care for Dual Hatchets, but just tried them this weekend and grinded/maxed familiarity in one day (granted late game), I was having a blast with some of the combos (although I always have my trusty swicthglaive in the main slot). Don't forget to read/click EVERYTHING at the smith as she gets more; even just talking with her can net you stuff, and having a "good relationship" (spending money) will save you in the long-run (like she will offer you special finds as one thing, but Soul Matching is KEY to late game).

Edit: And if you are a completionist like me - for the love of god save the green men/kodamas the first time if possible. You will get gear to see them on the compass later, but there are SO MANY (200+)

[Xangi]

I just did Enenra on DotW with only a +11 katana, and I can safely say you have no idea what a damage sponge looks like if you think NG Enenra is one.

[Fat Valentine]

Xangi a écrit :

I just did Enenra on DotW with only a +11 katana, and I can safely say you have no idea what a damage sponge looks like if you think NG Enenra is one.

Damn get that sword upgraded my man

[Xangi]

Fat Valentine a écrit :

Xangi a écrit :

I just did Enenra on DotW with only a +11 katana, and I can safely say you have no idea what a damage sponge looks like if you think NG Enenra is one.

Damn get that sword upgraded my man

Oh eventually, I just need a good ethereal base. No sense wasting the money on the one I have. I went into DotW at around level 220 as well, so I need to grind up some levels. I hit like a wet noodle and die when an enemy so much as glances as me :^)

[Dog]

Yeah, like the first game, the duels characters challenge you to are by far the hardest encounters. If you didnt play the first game, and considering how early of a boss this one is Id say its most likely you just need more practice. Try different stances/weapons. Practice the counters. Later in the game when you have access to more moves and jutsus you can really exploit enemy weaknesses. The early game can be rough for new comers especially when you dont have lots of spells and such. But there are still several use items available to help as well. Dont be skimpy with using them, nothing is so rare it needs to be saved for later.

[p00se2]

Yggranya a écrit :

No, some of them are way worse (and some of them are a joke).

Team ninja games can be summed up as: great combat brought down by abysmal enemy and encounter design.

and what is required to have good enemy encounter design ?
primtive combat like dark souls ?

[yds]

Yggranya a écrit :

No, some of them are way worse (and some of them are a joke).

Team ninja games can be summed up as: great combat brought down by abysmal enemy and encounter design.

Nioh 2 has some of the best bosses I encountered anywhere

[Archon]

Enenra is a joke of a boss that melted in seconds my first time fighting him on NG.
If you suck at the game, go magic / ninjutsu.

[{5LINE}Cows with Guns]

smh, I think OP should lock the thread already, he is past enera already and still playing (or not, whatever).

Whether or not he comes to appreciate what Nioh 2 has to offer is up to him. I kinda don't like seeing this thread deviating into flaming the OP since it is counterproductive and toxic.

He can always start a new thread days/weeks from now to ♥♥♥♥♥, praise, or "meh" at the game. In that case - flame away.

[yds]

viro 2409 a écrit :

Enenra is a joke of a boss that melted in seconds my first time fighting him on NG.
If you suck at the game, go magic / ninjutsu.

How old are you, five? Enenra is objectively difficult for most new players.

[Midas]

Enenra is pretty easy, but it's an important fight for teaching you the flow and what to exploit when fighting bosses. The burst counters are important. Using finishers on bosses is important. Most of Enenra's fight is set up to let you do these things several times to get a feel for the impact they have and how to anticipate opportunities to use them.