nerf light roll

[nora]

you can just spam light rolls and nothing can really hit you since you roll faster than sprinting, and it uses barely any stamina too

https://youtu.be/8SyY8dUixJU

[DayLight1943]

this is pretty obvious to anyone who values actual game balance. the most common argument against a light roll nerf is that "i am able to rollcatch lightroll/be caught by lightroll", but that doesnt take into account that most of the times a lightroller can be rollcaught is either because someone is using a very long range weapon like dual pike, or that the lightroller made an error.

you dont balance games around what its like for an average casual player to fight an average casual player, you balance them assuming things will be played optimally.

[FIRE]

Yeah looks like it really needs a nerf for pvp. I just hope that it will be for pvp only.

This is what happens when u put the things u designed for pve in a pvp environment, you will need a billion years to balance it all.

[nora]

Originally posted by csand:

I dunno. You can roll catch relatively easily. All his opponents just run and spam r1, which obviously is not gonna work.

It's good to have a fast ranged attack to catch them, or really any strategy other than "chase and spam attack" . Sacred weapon is one I like to use though there are plenty of spells and skills that will suffice.

Jeenine needs to post rage bait like this cause he earns money from his channel and his merch. Ofc he won't include the opponents who didn't just spam r1 and beat him or managed to get around his trolling, cause it defeats his narrative he's trying to spin his simps into another frenzy over.

If a player just wants to troll and force a stalemate by avoiding combat, nerfing light roll isn't gojng to stop them. Shift tab, recent players, and block will though.

one of the first guys he fought in the video using PS spears, which have the most overpowered moveset in the game. also at like 10:40 timestamp he was fighting a max rank opponent who was using PS straight swords and 2h rapier, both of which have very good movesets, and he still didn't get hit

[miep miep]

Originally posted by csand:

I dunno. You can roll catch relatively easily. All his opponents just run and spam r1, which obviously is not gonna work.

It's important to have a fast ranged attack to catch them, or really any strategy other than "chase and spam attack" . Sacred weapon is one I like to use though there are plenty of spells and skills that will suffice.

Jeenine needs to post rage bait like this cause he earns money from his channel and his merch. Ofc he won't include the opponents who didn't just spam r1 and beat him or managed to get around his trolling, cause it defeats his narrative he's trying to spin his simps into another frenzy over.

If a player just wants to troll and force a stalemate by avoiding combat, nerfing light roll isn't gojng to stop them. Shift tab, recent players, and block will though.

I find it laughable you criticize his opponents for "run and spam r1", while recommending sacred weapon, which is pretty trash. You arent gonna hit anyone competent with that. The reason his opponents are immediately attacking, when they get back in range is because if they dont he rolls outside of their range in 1-2 light rolls anyways. Thats the whole critic here. Lightroll distance.

Btw you can just do the same experiment he did. I did it back when light roll got changed in duels and it is really as easy as portrait in this video. No need to time your rolls just spam backward rolls, when your opponent comes remotely close to you.

I would pay money watching you trying to catch jeenine light rolling with your sacred blade.

Originally posted by Touch Grace:

If they nerf light roll they need to address the overpowered range on all these halberds and AoE spells first.

Light rolling allows more off-meta things to stand a chance and most of the time you're not going to have that much poise so it's easy to stagger. Thus playing around "finding the right timing" is your strength but also your weakness, because if you get hit that is a big chunk of your health. Take into account light rollers take significantly more damage because they can't use heavy defensive armor. Yes I know this can be abused by min/max BUT those kind of builds also make for some of the most predictable attack patterns.

Halberd is completely fine and can be easily countered by a jump attack. When someone spams halberd run attack against you, dodge the first and be ready to jump attack the second. Easy peasy.

[nora]

Originally posted by miep miep:

Originally posted by csand:

I dunno. You can roll catch relatively easily. All his opponents just run and spam r1, which obviously is not gonna work.

It's important to have a fast ranged attack to catch them, or really any strategy other than "chase and spam attack" . Sacred weapon is one I like to use though there are plenty of spells and skills that will suffice.

Jeenine needs to post rage bait like this cause he earns money from his channel and his merch. Ofc he won't include the opponents who didn't just spam r1 and beat him or managed to get around his trolling, cause it defeats his narrative he's trying to spin his simps into another frenzy over.

If a player just wants to troll and force a stalemate by avoiding combat, nerfing light roll isn't gojng to stop them. Shift tab, recent players, and block will though.

I find it laughable you criticize his opponents for "run and spam r1", while recommending sacred weapon, which is pretty trash. You arent gonna hit anyone competent with that. The reason his opponents are immediately attacking, when they get back in range is because if they dont he rolls outside of their range in 1-2 light rolls anyways. Thats the whole critic here. Lightroll distance.

Btw you can just do the same experiment he did. I did it back when light roll got changed in duels and it is really as easy as portrait in this video. No need to time your rolls just spam backward rolls, when your opponent comes remotely close to you.

I would pay money watching you trying to catch jeenine light rolling with your sacred blade.

Originally posted by Touch Grace:

If they nerf light roll they need to address the overpowered range on all these halberds and AoE spells first.

Light rolling allows more off-meta things to stand a chance and most of the time you're not going to have that much poise so it's easy to stagger. Thus playing around "finding the right timing" is your strength but also your weakness, because if you get hit that is a big chunk of your health. Take into account light rollers take significantly more damage because they can't use heavy defensive armor. Yes I know this can be abused by min/max BUT those kind of builds also make for some of the most predictable attack patterns.

Halberd is completely fine and can be easily countered by a jump attack. When someone spams halberd run attack against you, dodge the first and be ready to jump attack the second. Easy peasy.

i tried it myself a few times and i don't think i ever got hit lmao

[Sabaithal]

As long as its a PvP only nerf, I don't care. Dodging feels narrow enough in PvE as it is.

[nora]

Originally posted by csand:

Originally posted by miep miep:

I find it laughable you criticize his opponents for "run and spam r1", while recommending sacred weapon, which is pretty trash. You arent gonna hit anyone competent with that. The reason his opponents are immediately attacking, when they get back in range is because if they dont he rolls outside of their range in 1-2 light rolls anyways. Thats the whole critic here. Lightroll distance.

Btw you can just do the same experiment he did. I did it back when light roll got changed in duels and it is really as easy as portrait in this video. No need to time your rolls just spam backward rolls, when your opponent comes remotely close to you.

I would pay money watching you trying to catch jeenine light rolling with your sacred blade.

Like I said if a player's only goal is to not engage to troll players and end on a stalemate, then great, the only solution is block them and move on. Because regardless of light roll distance they will do it anyways, and practically speaking if someone is just light rolling around constantly avoiding, they are doing no damage and stalemate is the only outcome. As soon as they stop to attack or do anything else they can be punished. You want to roll around like an idiot the congrats, you wasted your time and the other player's

I've played hundreds of matches so far, and you can have your opinion on sacred blade or w/e else doesn't fit
in your little mental box of what's good (this mentality explains why so many players can't beat meta users. Stuck adhering to what some youtuber told them is good) but used smartly it's awesome. Just like anything in this game

so if something is overpowered, don't try to nerf it because you can just block? incredible

[nora]

Originally posted by csand:

Originally posted by gitl:

so if something is overpowered, don't try to nerf it because you can just block? incredible

It's not OP. It's annoying if you encounter a troll who is literally only rolling, because that is the only situation it's a problem. And the solution to that is to block them

if you encountered a troll who literally just mid-rolls, you can just rollcatch them. if they lightroll you can't do anything because they roll faster than you can sprint and a single roll will always get them out of range

[nora]

Originally posted by csand:

Originally posted by gitl:

if you encountered a troll who literally just mid-rolls, you can just rollcatch them. if they lightroll you can't do anything because they roll faster than you can sprint and a single roll will always get them out of range

Exactly. And they can't kill you either, so they are just a time wasting troll. So block them and never deal with them again

so you agree? light roll should be nerfed?

[nora]

Originally posted by csand:

Originally posted by gitl:

so you agree? light roll should be nerfed?

No. They can just as easily run around in circles too. Should we nerf sprinting?

no they can't, because you can just run up to them and hit them with some good timing

[miep miep]

Originally posted by csand:

Like I said if a player's only goal is to not engage to troll players and end on a stalemate, then great, the solution is block them and move on. Because practically speaking if someone is just light rolling around constantly avoiding, they are doing no damage and stalemate is the only outcome. As soon as they stop to attack or do anything else they can be punished. You want to roll around like an idiot the congrats, you wasted your time and the other player's

I've played hundreds of matches so far, and you can have your opinion on sacred blade or w/e else doesn't fit
in your little mental box of what's good (this mentality explains why so many players can't beat meta users. Stuck adhering to what some youtuber told them is good) but used smartly it's awesome. Just like anything in this game

When I tested it, I ran a magic build and I did win all the fights, if you count enemy ragequits as wins aswell. You are too focused on this particular video were jeenine mostly isnt fightning back. You can totally incorporate ranged attacks into your light roll build and fight back.

"When used smartly its good" is basically what you are saying about sacred blade and you can say this about any ash of war. I played around with everything in this game. Just yesterday I tested the speed on the clubs after the patch to see if stone club is a more viable option now.

So let me give you my honest sacred blade take not influenced by anything a youtuber said about it. It catches people of guard just like any other ranged aow like beasts roar or storm blade on range. When you do it up close you have the advantage of inexperienced opponents underestimating its hyperarmor, which will then result in you hitting them with both blade and magic for big damage. What can also happen is your opponent panic rolls backwards too soon and you catch them with the spell part when they come out of their roll. Still not as good of a light roll chase down tool as you think it is, because it takes 1-2 seconds to cast while being locked on the spot meanwhile your lightroll opponent is already a mile away now only having to dodge a horizontally small, medium fast magic wave.

Originally posted by Touch Grace:

"dodge the first" might help with a light-roll, so you're just complimenting my point. Also, I'm using the word "halberd" broadly.

But yeah I get what you're saying but it's not "easy peasy". Depends on your weapon/build as not every build can just "easy peasily" do that. Also include the likeliness of a halberd abuser running a high poise, high defensive build. The amount of times a light-build would have to effectively execute your technique is higher than most "normal" builds but that is part of the drawback of being a light-build.

No, you can dodge the first just fine with medium roll aswell. Thats literally a skill issue there if you cant reaction roll a halberd running attack. Also my counter can be performed with every setup, that can perform a jump attack. The poise of the opponent doesnt even matter because you attack him, while his running attack is missing below you so even if you dont poise break him he is still stuck in recovery frames for atleast a moment. But all of that poise talk is irrelevant because you should be able to poise break everyone with a heavy jump attack anyways.

I would like to know what kind of light build your running because light build isnt synonymous for "the builds damage output sucks". If you arent doing a decent chunk of damage with your jumping attacks, then what exactly are the strenghts of your build anyways? Of course if you gimp yourself into using some bad setup you will have to play twice as well as someone who deletes atleast half a hp bar with his powerstanced jump attacks. That doesnt make the counter less good.

[Arngrim]

I always felt that if you want to pvp you should be prepared to face anything, or just accept that some builds are really hard for you.
There are ways to punish fast rollers too if you want to incorporate that, but that´s up to you.

[Sparhawk 59]

Originally posted by Arngrim:

I always felt that if you want to pvp you should be prepared to face anything, or just accept that some builds are really hard for you.
There are ways to punish fast rollers too if you want to incorporate that, but that´s up to you.

They don't want that mate meens they have to learn something it's easier to come on forum cry and demand more nerfs

[miep miep]

Originally posted by Arngrim:

I always felt that if you want to pvp you should be prepared to face anything, or just accept that some builds are really hard for you.

I have a problem with this framing of yours because there is still a difference between
1) some builds being "hard on you" as in the weapon/playstyle might counter yours and you have to just deal with it and
2) the existence of actual imbalanced stuff, which is what we are discussing here.

For example: I should accept - following your mindset - that the ripple crescent halberd with sleep grease on an arcane build can sleep me in 3 hits, even when I perfectly i-frame all of those attacks because sleep procs through i-frames? No! I point out how imbalanced this is and argue for a nerf. You are welcome to argue against it, but I think punishing a player even though he rolled everything perfectly goes against the core mechanics of this game and the problem with this particular setup over madness is the sheer speed you can build up sleep with it.

If you dont like these kind of discussions dont join a thread about stuff like this. And dont frame it like these discussions are only sparked by people being butthurt over XYZ because they just lost vs it. Those people exist no doubt, but there is also genuine balance talk happening aswell. I dont even want to picture previous titles pvp, if fromsoft never nerfed anything and we players just accepted every broken thing.

[FIRE]

Originally posted by miep miep:

Originally posted by Arngrim:

I always felt that if you want to pvp you should be prepared to face anything, or just accept that some builds are really hard for you.

I have a problem with this framing of yours because there is still a difference between
1) some builds being "hard on you" as in the weapon/playstyle might counter yours and you have to just deal with it and
2) the existence of actual imbalanced stuff, which is what we are discussing here.

I think you also need to be realistic and realize that they can't actually balance the entire game, especially when many of the weapons or spells were designed specifically for pve. Eventually they'll stop making balance patches and it will still remain unbalanced forever, the same as every other souls game.

The status building up even when you dodge an attack definitely needs a fix though. It's more of a bug than an actual imbalance.