Why are sorceries so underwhelming apart from ~5 spells?

[Gilderoy Lockhart]

I thought faith spells were all about versatility at less damage and intel spells were supposed to be pure pew-pew damage. I tried it out..but what is this horse ♥♥♥♥♥?

I used rebirth, put INT at 40 (I am lvl 75), upgraded my academy staff to +8. Most of the spells deal very low damage even when testing on enemies in Liurnia/Limgrave, the starting glintstone spells do more which is just ridiculous.

Everyone on internet forums keep saying "use rock sling!" or "use meteor!" well I don't want to use the same 3 spells for whole playthrough lol. There are over 60 spells in sorcery alone

Is there something I'm doing wrong? I'm about to use another larvae tear and switch to a high faith build lol because on my seamless co-op file, faith spells do a lot more damage.

[Dollmaker]

Like you said, Incantation is know for their versatility.

Spells are know for their spammy nature, and unfortunately, their "upgrade" philosophy, aka, half the spells are just upgrades of a previous one.

Also, worth pointing out that Liurna is basically the "magic" area of the game, so magic builds tend to be weaker there, specially in Raya Lucaria.

Sorcerer builds benefit more from having lots of Int, being a more of a pure caster thing, which isnt surprising considering the requirement of some of the staffs and spells, also i think Normal +8 is pretty low, even for lv75.

Like incantations, the Staffs can boost a specific school of spells, so try to aim for that, unless you got REALLY high, at that point the Regal or Lusat Staffs are the better options.

Btw, despite their reputation, they do have some variety, one example being Shard Spiral, which is a giant killer, it hits the same target multiple times on top of having a somewhat slow travel, which is perfect to deal with giant enemies, even Elden Beast which has high resistance to elemental dmg.

[Squirel_squire]

rock sling
comet
night comet
ambush shard
loreta's arrow
rennala/rannis full moon
comet azur
there's even some fire sorceries very strong

[Sephylon]

Originally posted by Squirel_squire:

rock sling
comet
night comet
ambush shard
loreta's arrow
rennala/rannis full moon
comet azur
there's even some fire sorceries very strong

Carian slicer
Adula's moon blade
Shard spiral
Cryatal torrent
Gavel of haima
Canon of haima
Star shower/stars of ruin
Zamor ice storm
Terra magica

Is there something I'm doing wrong? I'm about to use another larvae tear and switch to a high faith build lol because on my seamless co-op file, faith spells do a lot more damage.

This

INT at 40 (I am lvl 75), upgraded my academy staff to +8

At that upgrade level meteor staff will have the highest spell scaling no matter what your int is.

[Clail]

Having played both, I do feel like Incantations have way more viable playstyles. The only advantage of sorcery is many of it's spells are spammable/quick on the recast. Soo many of them are just a variation of a glintstone pebble.

The interesting variants like crystal burst end up hitting like wet noodles.

[Velesianus]

Originally posted by Sephylon:

Carian slicer

Carian Slicer has the second highest sustained DPS in pve if used with Azur's Glintstone Staff plus Carian Glintstone Staff in the offhand and the Radagon Icon.

ʸᵉˢ ᵗʰᵃᵗ ᶦⁿᶜˡᵘᵈᵉˢ ᶜᵒᵐᵉᵗ ᵃᶻᵘʳ ʷᶦᵗʰ ᵗʰᵉ ᶜᵉʳᵘˡᵉᵃⁿ ʰᶦᵈᵈᵉⁿ ᵗᵉᵃʳ

It's also the highest damage to fp consumption ratio.

It only takes about 30 to 45 minutes to set up at the start too if you route it properly.

The main drawback of the build though is that it doesn't exactly do a lot of poise damage so it's good idea to go a bit heavy on the vigor.

[Sabaithal]

Well not all spells are supposed to be over the top flashy affairs that do a ton of damage (most of which are dragon cult stuff). Some are intentionally supposed to be weaker, but also cheaper.

Choosing the right tool for casting, and having the appropriate scaling stat higher enough matters a lot in terms of damage dealt. You might have a staff with S scaling in intelligence, but its base spell buff is low, so unless your INT is also very high you won't get much out of it. But if your INT is really high, then that staff will do more output than most other staves.

[toughnails]

I literally don't get what's the point of sorcery when Dark Moon Greatsword exists. Its projectile is faster, deals a lot more damage (2k+ on a dedicated RL150 build) and costs 0 FP, completely outclassing all the pebble/shard/comet etc spells, and sorcery doesn't have much else to offer.

Although, ER's sorcery is still better than DS3's I guess. That was the worst From game for mages by far (pyros were ok though).

[Velesianus]

Originally posted by toughnails:

I literally don't get what's the point of sorcery when Dark Moon Greatsword exists. Its projectile is faster, deals a lot more damage (2k+ on a dedicated RL150 build) and costs 0 FP, completely outclassing all the pebble/shard/comet etc spells, and sorcery doesn't have much else to offer.

Although, ER's sorcery is still better than DS3's I guess. That was the worst From game for mages by far (pyros were ok though).

I get what you're saying and DMGS is amazing but it does have lower DPS on average than some spells (like the above mentioned Carian Slicer).

Even if it didn't, it still deals less DPS than a quality Star Fist build, has lower single hit damage than a heavy Giant-Crusher build and has less DoT than a Death's Poker build.

Why not use those?

The answer, of course, is that damage isn't everything and some people just have more fun with non-optimal runs .

[toughnails]

Originally posted by Velesianus:

Even if it didn't, it still deals less DPS than a quality Star Fist build, has lower single hit damage than a heavy Giant-Crusher build and has less DoT than a Death's Poker build.

Why not use those?

Those are close range weapons though, while DMGS is basically the same thing as the spell projectiles, hence me comparing it to those.

If you want a ranged pew-pew build, it's hard to find something better than DMGS. Completely trivializes PVE IMO.

And I'd really love to know their reasoning. Like, let's add a weapon that makes 90% of sorceries completely obsolete. Just... why?

[Gilderoy Lockhart]

Originally posted by toughnails:

Originally posted by Velesianus:

Even if it didn't, it still deals less DPS than a quality Star Fist build, has lower single hit damage than a heavy Giant-Crusher build and has less DoT than a Death's Poker build.

Why not use those?

Those are close range weapons though, while DMGS is basically the same thing as the spell projectiles, hence me comparing it to those.

If you want a ranged pew-pew build, it's hard to find something better than DMGS. Completely trivializes PVE IMO.

And I'd really love to know their reasoning. Like, let's add a weapon that makes 90% of sorceries completely obsolete. Just... why?

Yeah after getting carian staff and upgrading it to 15, I still don't do as much damage. At the end I got pissed off and went to faith again xD It's much better

[cybercybercybercyber4]

Originally posted by toughnails:

And I'd really love to know their reasoning. Like, let's add a weapon that makes 90% of sorceries completely obsolete. Just... why?

it requires 38 int. for a low level character thats almost not reachable.
when not leveling (and not cheesing) , those "trash" sorceries can have advantages and if its just not using that talisman slot for the stargazer heirloom.

On release DMGS was unplayable because the projectile would miss very often. I havent used it since then, but i guess it has been buffed. Lots of people werent happy with it being so weak back then because its a signature weapon of FS games. I guess FS listened to them.

[Aertes]

For the moment I've played a carian mage with the blades spells and a necromancer with every rencor and death flame spell I found. Both gave very good results. True that they weren't one-hitters but they were effective and fun enough to be built and played.

[Velesianus]

Originally posted by Tyrion Lannister:

Yeah after getting carian staff and upgrading it to 15, I still don't do as much damage. At the end I got pissed off and went to faith again xD It's much better

You shouldn't be upgrading it at all though except for some really exotic builds.

For most builds, like Slicer and Adula's Moonblade, you never cast spells with it. You just need to have it equipped. It's actually a terrible staff.

Slicer itself only has the second highest DPS in the game if you chain cast it with maxed out speed. That's what got it nerfed so hard in pvp.

The two ways of maxing its speed are:

1. Increasing your DEX to 70
2. Using it with both the Azur's GS Staff and the Radagon Icon.

Since you also need high INT for the build, obviously the second option is usually better.

All that said, yeah faith is great.

A pure FTH build done correctly will easily do as much damage as most pure INT ones and is generally going to be a lot less sweaty to use.

[Sonnenbank]

A lot more spells are good than 5.....

some strange people always think that every spell or weapon that isnt op is bad.....

for example
Glintstone Icecrag is a very good spell.
Magic Glintblade is also good.

Both are not op but do decent damage and can kill most bosses pretty easy

[Hemlock]

I fail to understand why you decided sorceries suck with the little time you played the game....

Except the aberrant sorceries wich absolutely suck no matter what you do......everything else has enough potential to perform properly with the appropiate stats. Even the "lowly" glinstone pebble can be considered one of the best sorceries if we keep in mind the derisory SEVEN....FP cost....and of course the already mentioned carian slicer i keep even using at max RL.

Anyways get yourself one of the academy Burger King glinstone crowns and a

https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Graven-School+Talisman

You will boost your INT and magic damage with the resources you have in the area. Keep increasing your INT and experimenting with whatever you learn.