Morgott did nothing wrong (spoilers)

[Mr_Blank]

Something that bugs me about the fan base is how much a lot of us hate morgott, when he’s possibly the most redeemable god other than miquella. I will explain what each child of marika/Radagon has done to make them below morgott, and why morgott doesn’t deserve the Shade I see him getting. Reason I’m doing this is because of the Shade my man gets in the official discord.

Renalla and the Carians entered war with the golden order, but she and Radagon fell in love on the battlefield and created peace. While the peace is good, she pretty much abandons the ideals of the carians in favour of the golden order, which hurts her relationship with her troops and children. speaking of which;

Radahn didn’t start out malicious, as were told that he literally only studies gravity magic to be able to ride his horse Leonard. However, likely due to his admiration of Godfrey, he would become a warlord searching for a worthy opponent, which obviously ended in a lotta meaningless bloodshed.

Rykard left his family to create his own order, and eventually fed himself to the god devouring serpent to become immortal. In the process however, he murdered and killed thousands of warriors, as we see in his arena and I. The blasphemous blade.

Ranni started the shattering and that’s the end of that discussion.

Malenia and Miquella are both major traitors. miquella is a traitor to the erdtree because of his work on the Haligtree. Malenia literally destroyed all of caelid by using her bloom of scarlet rot. She ALSO did this to the haligtree for a purpose I do not know (feel free to mald me in the comments about it).

Mohg is a traitor because although I understand why he wanted to leave the shunning grounds he in turn created a dynasty of pure lust and terror that treats everyone who is a part of it like trash, except maybe Varre. Mohg also kidnapped a child so that’s the end of that.

Godrick stole his brother godefroys great rune after he died, making godrick a traitor, AND godrick also steals peoples limbs and grafts them to himself. His poor gatekeeper Gosfoc lost his entire arm to his evil master.

Finally Godwyns a really bad friend since he unintentionally both cursed and trapped his dragon friend fortisaxx after he died. I don’t have any arguement better than that since we know very little about him.

As for the other parents, Godfrey slaughtered an entire race of giants during the war, leaving the mountains without their main protectors to become a Chaotic land (I’m referring to the smaller giants being bullied by crows and giant hands obviously).

Marika and Radagon are the same person meaning Radagon is at fault as much as marika, who was the idiot who shattered the ring in the first place.

Morgott has not killed or fought anyone he didn’t see as a threat, as we know he fought radahn off during the shattering when the demigods raced to grab shards, and we know he only fights the tarnished because he knows they’re in search for the elden ring, and fights them again when they’re at the foot of the erdtree.

Morgott also hasn’t betrayed the erdtree or the golden order, despite all of his family doing so, and despite the erdtree shunning him And not giving him grace. He suffered the same fate as mohg in the shunning grounds yet he still serves the order.

In conclusion, morgott is the only god worth redeeming other than maybe radahn be a use of his love for Leonard, and maybe Godwyn since we don’t know a lot about him.

[GloriousZote]

Postat inițial de Sayo:

Postat inițial de GloriousZote:

The worst part about Ranni is that Godwyn is basically just collateral damage as far as we know, nothing personal, she just needed a demigod to play the soul-death part of the rite, maybe she chose him because he was the most beloved, makes for some great chaos, something she could've really used given her plot.

She's evil.

Yeah and the Frenzied Flame ending is the good ending /s

[Alby]

Postat inițial de GloriousZote:

Postat inițial de Sayo:

She's evil.

Yeah and the Frenzied Flame ending is the good ending /s

I mean, it’s all perspective.

Buwn it down. Buwn it all down to the gwound

[GloriousZote]

Postat inițial de Alby:

Postat inițial de GloriousZote:

Yeah and the Frenzied Flame ending is the good ending /s

I mean, it’s all perspective.

Buwn it down. Buwn it all down to the gwound

Suffer.
Not for your take, but for the UwU-speech.

[Alby]

It’s a South Park reference you chud! 😂😂

https://youtu.be/CRJVPVR2xZk

[Sabaithal]

What I'm most curious about honestly is the divine tower of Liurnia, regarding Ranni. Yes, her body is up there, and yes it has a fragment of the rune of death on it, as accounted for.

But why is there a godskin noble up there? And for that matter her body appears to have been burned.

[GloriousZote]

Postat inițial de Sabaithal:

What I'm most curious about honestly is the divine tower of Liurnia, regarding Ranni. Yes, her body is up there, and yes it has a fragment of the rune of death on it, as accounted for.

But why is there a godskin noble up there? And for that matter her body appears to have been burned.

Godskins are made by the Nox, Nox turned on Ranni because she had you steal their fingerslayer blade.

[Mr_Blank]

Postat inițial de mayhem523:

Postat inițial de Mr_Blank:

As for miquella he is a traitor to the golden order but he did indeed have good intentions.

I don't categorize anyone that turns their back on the golden order as automatically bad as I'm not convinced the Golden Order is all that good. Didn't they enslave and abuse the misbegotten, who should have been viewed as holy as they are of the crucible... same with the omens. I feel like there are a number of characters that decide the golden order isn't all its cracked up to be, including gold mask.

Regardless, I judge the characters on their intentions as much as their actions. Miquellas intention is that everyone flourishes, Malenia's intention is to protect Miquella, Morgott's is to stay true to his faith and earn his way back to grace, or at least try his hardest, through his actions and loyalty. I think these are the most respectable characters, the rest are pretty shady.

I agree with that a lot actually. The reason malenia isn’t innocent for me is because of her bloom in caelid and the haligtree, which screwed over everyone who lived there just so she could win a fight. Imagine if she bloomed in leyndell if morgott fought her instead of radahn, THOUSANDS would die. As for miquella at the start of my rant i said morgott is the only redeemable on except for maybe miquella, since we don’t know a lot about him. We know he wanted pureness for everyone, but is that like a thanos thing where he wants to wipe out everyone so only a small lucky few can prosper? We don’t know yet, but perhaps he will prove his morality in the dlc. Until then Morgott is the most redeemable demigod.

[An Irate Walrus]

I will say this in defense of Ranni masterminding the night of the black knives:

As best I can tell from context cues and a couple of decades of teaching Lovecraft, the Greater Will is a Lovecraftian Elder God feeding off the Lands Between using the Erdtree as the medium through which it feeds (in much the same way the Elder God of Legacy of Kain siphons sustenance from the Wheel of Souls). When souls return to the Erdtree, the Greater Will siphons some of their essence, then kicks whatever is left back into the world to be born anew, accumulate power/energy, die, and feed it again.

The above is speculation, but based on available evidence, I feel good about it.

Given that possibility, and the reality that Ranni's goal is to break the hold of all gods (she leaves the world behind in her ending; the "journey into darkness" is a metaphor for the uncertainty of life without a deity to guide your fate), I'm of the mind that the Shattering was a necessary evil, rather than some heinous affront to all living things.

Freedom comes with risks; if you have a choice, it's always possible you'll make the wrong one.

But I'd rather risk ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ up than live with the illusion of choice as some distant god's livestock--and for that reason, I can understand why Ranni did what she did. A messy solution, but most attempts to break an entrenched order usually are.

[Ermitaum]

Magnus did nothing wrong.

[Sabaithal]

Well its never really explained, or even properly implied why the greater will wants influence into the lands between (or any of the outer gods for that matter).

The closest we have is a few lines from the Elden Beast soundtrack, that some people fluent in latin could make out:

gravis stella / sapiat aeternae / sibi cerne / stellis stellae a

Which apparently could mean one of two things:
- The grave star wishes to understand for her eternal self. Separate from the stars, to the star.
- The grave star wishes to understand. Separate from the stars, to herself, the eternal star.

The second makes a little more sense to me.

[mayhem523]

Postat inițial de Mr_Blank:

Postat inițial de mayhem523:

I don't categorize anyone that turns their back on the golden order as automatically bad as I'm not convinced the Golden Order is all that good. Didn't they enslave and abuse the misbegotten, who should have been viewed as holy as they are of the crucible... same with the omens. I feel like there are a number of characters that decide the golden order isn't all its cracked up to be, including gold mask.

Regardless, I judge the characters on their intentions as much as their actions. Miquellas intention is that everyone flourishes, Malenia's intention is to protect Miquella, Morgott's is to stay true to his faith and earn his way back to grace, or at least try his hardest, through his actions and loyalty. I think these are the most respectable characters, the rest are pretty shady.

I agree with that a lot actually. The reason malenia isn’t innocent for me is because of her bloom in caelid and the haligtree, which screwed over everyone who lived there just so she could win a fight. Imagine if she bloomed in leyndell if morgott fought her instead of radahn, THOUSANDS would die. As for miquella at the start of my rant i said morgott is the only redeemable on except for maybe miquella, since we don’t know a lot about him. We know he wanted pureness for everyone, but is that like a thanos thing where he wants to wipe out everyone so only a small lucky few can prosper? We don’t know yet, but perhaps he will prove his morality in the dlc. Until then Morgott is the most redeemable demigod.

I'm not exactly sure what Malenia's motives were for fighting Radahn, or why victory was so incredibly important, so it's hard to judge her based off of that. It seems like she typically does her best to supress the rot and doesn't want to be the rot goddess. I'm assuming she did that because she felt she had no other choice. I'm not sure what was at stake for her... if it was just Radahns great rune and more power, that's obviously bad, but if she thought Miquellas life depeneded on her winning, that's not as bad.

[CourtesyFlush09]

I haven't really seen any hate for him here, but I'm not on the discord so I don't know what it's like over there.

But Morgott is a Golden Order simp with a weird case of Stockholm Syndrome. He tries incredibly hard to protect the order that so utterly hates him and his kind. That's why I don't respect him at all. Cool boss fights, though.

[CourtesyFlush09]

Postat inițial de mayhem523:

I don't categorize anyone that turns their back on the golden order as automatically bad as I'm not convinced the Golden Order is all that good. Didn't they enslave and abuse the misbegotten,

Yup, also committed genocide by wiping out the giants. The Golden Order is an allegory of real-life religions and their often parasitic nature.

[GloriousZote]

Postat inițial de CourtesyFlush90:

Postat inițial de mayhem523:

I don't categorize anyone that turns their back on the golden order as automatically bad as I'm not convinced the Golden Order is all that good. Didn't they enslave and abuse the misbegotten,

Yup, also committed genocide by wiping out the giants. The Golden Order is an allegory of real-life religions and their often parasitic nature.

War is war, I get what you're trying to say, but don't put religion to blame.
That said, I don't like the Golden Order, either. Hell, I don't even like the Two Fingers, despite them seeing no fault in putting Marika/Radagon down.
They still strike me as "wrong", their decaying appearance, how can you look at them and go "Yep, that's totally normal."

Though back on the Golden Order, I think there's something to be said about the current Erdtree being nothing more but basically a giant ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hologram, the real Erdtree died long ago, back in the Age of Plenty.

[Lavian]

The Golden Order: Punishes Omen (and many others) for the simple crime of existing and being born.
Morgott: Is an Omen, and condemned to a life of imprisonment since birth.
Also Morgott: The Golden Order is precious and must be protected!

Morgott is lawful stupid. He's too incredibly dumb to even bring up the question of good or evil.

Also, he's a pushover that tries to act all tough.

He really just comes across as pathetic. He's not worth redeeming. He's not really worth even considering.

The Golden Order is a garbage system in which the adherents of commit mass atrocities of genocide, enslavement, and so on. The immortality that was brought on with the Golden Order has seen nearly everyone under its domain go completely insane. Marika isn't even the "one true god" as adherents of the Golden Order, such as brother Corhyn, proclaim. She's just the most recent "god" selected by the Greater Will. Those who turn against the Golden Order are right to do so.