Bleed / Frost is kind of Mandatory

[Karamell]

Every other build is viable and can carry you don't get me wrong- but, after playing with multiple builds, trying new things out including the buffed colossal weapons in the latest patch ... bleed / frost is still way too good to pass up on. It's mandatory if you want to be a good co-op buddy for strangers.

Like if you want to help people with the hardest boss in the game for example (you know the one, spoilers on her), you NEED bleed / frost or else the fight lasting too long leaves the host a better chance of dying, a far greater chance. I would do well and time my dodges for her anime-tier attack, but even with greater stuns from my heavier weapons or spells, it won't mean anything if we don't DPS the boss down in time before the host eats it.

I feel like Elden Ring is too unbalanced, it needs to buff every other kind of build to be on par with bleed / frost because otherwise it feels awful going to anything else besides the meta. Never had I seen a meta this potent before in previous Souls games.

[Elazul]

Sucks that Adula's was just nerfed

[Grampire]

I have never used either and have no plans to.

[OoOoOoooOOoOoorgle]

The argument that it's too common amongst some of the most difficult content, I can understand. That's judgment call territory for the devs, maybe there should be more late stuff with immunity, but eh. Not gonna happen now.

That being said, I've been switching back and forth between a bleed/frost setup and more front-loaded damage via scaling, and they're fairly equivalent in practice. Bleed/Frost looks more impressive because you get big chunks. But if every hit is significantly stronger to begin with, you can actually keep a similar damage pace. The raw damage build is also arguably 'safer' for content where you don't know immunities yet.

But I mean if you KNOW something is weak to both, of course that's stronger. If you purposefully exploit the gaps in a specific boss's defenses, that should be a potent strategy.

[NightUndead]

Originally posted by OoOoOoooOOoOoorgle:

The argument that it's too common amongst some of the most difficult content, I can understand. That's judgment call territory for the devs, maybe there should be more late stuff with immunity, but eh. Not gonna happen now.

That being said, I've been switching back and forth between a bleed/frost setup and more front-loaded damage via scaling, and they're fairly equivalent in practice. Bleed/Frost looks more impressive because you get big chunks. But if every hit is significantly stronger to begin with, you can actually keep a similar damage pace. The raw damage build is also arguably 'safer' for content where you don't know immunities yet.

But I mean if you KNOW something is weak to both, of course that's stronger. If you purposefully exploit the gaps in a specific boss's defenses, that should be a potent strategy.

Remember that for the one OP is talking about, bleed/frost can also INTERRUPT the <insert stupid attack here> (Yes heavy attacks probably can too, but only with stagger)

[Israelis againts usury]

frost is cringe, just go 50 arc and bleedmaxx

[Credne]

Anything is viable in PvE. PvE in Souls games is just not difficult enough to care about build viability and stuff, that's for PvP only.

[Týr'el]

Originally posted by abortion haver:

frost is cringe, just go 50 arc and bleedmaxx

No it is not, you can reinit frost with any fire stone/weapon art/weapon.

Frost build up is actually faster than bleed on some bosses (e.g. Malenia)

Not even talking about sl1, where dual cold infusion is the best path to get both an increased damage (even if split) and high frequency procing 10%MaxHp (if you dare reinit it with fire)

[OoOoOoooOOoOoorgle]

Originally posted by NightUndead:

Originally posted by OoOoOoooOOoOoorgle:

The argument that it's too common amongst some of the most difficult content, I can understand. That's judgment call territory for the devs, maybe there should be more late stuff with immunity, but eh. Not gonna happen now.

That being said, I've been switching back and forth between a bleed/frost setup and more front-loaded damage via scaling, and they're fairly equivalent in practice. Bleed/Frost looks more impressive because you get big chunks. But if every hit is significantly stronger to begin with, you can actually keep a similar damage pace. The raw damage build is also arguably 'safer' for content where you don't know immunities yet.

But I mean if you KNOW something is weak to both, of course that's stronger. If you purposefully exploit the gaps in a specific boss's defenses, that should be a potent strategy.

Remember that for the one OP is talking about, bleed/frost can also INTERRUPT the <insert stupid attack here> (Yes heavy attacks probably can too, but only with stagger)

Right, but that's like...using a specific counter strategy that they at least in theory included on purpose. That's fine with me. It's like if OP was asking for everything else to be as good as fire is against something with a fire weakness. Picking a top setup for specific content should work better than not doing so.

However, that could also be different now? I would be interested to know whether the proc stagger changes in this patch apply to that fight, haven't got a chance to test.

[NightUndead]

Originally posted by Týr'el:

Originally posted by abortion haver:

frost is cringe, just go 50 arc and bleedmaxx

No it is not, you can reinit frost with any fire stone/weapon art/weapon.

Frost build up is actually faster than bleed on some bosses (e.g. Malenia)

Not even talking about sl1, where dual cold infusion is the best path to get both an increased damage (even if split) and high frequency procing 10%MaxHp (if you dare reinit it with fire)

There's even the bloodflame weapon buff, which deals fire damage and a bleed buildup "DoT" :D

Originally posted by OoOoOoooOOoOoorgle:

Originally posted by NightUndead:

Remember that for the one OP is talking about, bleed/frost can also INTERRUPT the <insert stupid attack here> (Yes heavy attacks probably can too, but only with stagger)

Right, but that's like...using a specific counter strategy that they at least in theory included on purpose. That's fine with me. It's like if OP was asking for everything else to be as good as fire is against something with a fire weakness. Picking a top setup for specific content should work better than not doing so.

However, that could also be different now? I would be interested to know whether the proc stagger changes in this patch apply to that fight, haven't got a chance to test.

Fair point

[Darano]

On the topic of Rot Lady, it's true, frost is just so good against her. But I'd say it feels slightly less cheesy to use it instead of bleed, since.. y'know.. from my experience frost isn't as easy to apply as pressing one button, not if you have constant aggro on you at least. I think overall, frost has bad rep. I'm pretty sure not as many enemies are so susceptible to it, and its damage chunk isn't as big.

If you want a competent damage build, with a lot of flexibility, go for Dragon Communion incantations, they are really flexible with damage types, and the only status effects you can play around are Frost and Rot, which are still strong in PvE and not too busted.

[Drake Ravenwolf]

The issue with bleed / frost (and rot) is that they deal percentage damage aka if a boss has 1 million HP then even 1% is still 10k damage - far more than you could otherwise do with attack power or casting power alone. I like the big damage numbers... but if you want to balance it... the percentage damage would have to be replaced with damage based solely on the player's own stats

[Drake Ravenwolf]

Originally posted by Darano the Dragon:

If you want a competent damage build, with a lot of flexibility, go for Dragon Communion incantations, they are really flexible with damage types, and the only status effects you can play around are Frost and Rot, which are still strong in PvE and not too busted.

My fav "life hack" is that you can get all the benefit of the rot/frost breaths in a boss fight while having absolute min faith and mind with the cerulean hidden tear and the faith knot tear in a physick

[Karamell]

Originally posted by Darano the Dragon:

On the topic of Rot Lady, it's true, frost is just so good against her. But I'd say it feels slightly less cheesy to use it instead of bleed, since.. y'know.. from my experience frost isn't as easy to apply as pressing one button, not if you have constant aggro on you at least. I think overall, frost has bad rep. I'm pretty sure not as many enemies are so susceptible to it, and its damage chunk isn't as big.

If you want a competent damage build, with a lot of flexibility, go for Dragon Communion incantations, they are really flexible with damage types, and the only status effects you can play around are Frost and Rot, which are still strong in PvE and not too busted.

Only downside to the Dragon Communion Incantations isn't the damage or the viability (it's very good) just ... it blocks a lot of my view in the fight and if someone times it wrong during her anime-tier attack ... someone IS going to die lmao.

I only time using it during her 2nd stage after she uses that dive bloom attack. She stands still long enough for me to abuse the frost breath. Otherwise, I like going in and dancing with the boss since I know how to dodge her very well, to the point I stopped using Bloodhound Step because I got into the rhythm. With that said, yea not being able to see during the breath weapon can hurt the fight far more than the rewards, sadly.

[Nerevar]

theyll get nerfed in another patch. i wouldnt worry about it. 3 months from now theyll be a thing of the past like so many OP ♥♥♥♥ the souls games had.

but for now enjoy 1 more month of bleed meta. then next nerfbat falls down. this wont escape forever as you simply cannot buff the rest to be par ever.

swarm of flies already got a nerf today. that was also a bleed thing. the rest will follow sooner or later. they arent nerfing 1 thing and leave the rest alone for good. its a work in progress.

[Karamell]

Originally posted by Nerevar:

theyll get nerfed in another patch. i wouldnt worry about it. 3 months from now theyll be a thing of the past like so many OP ♥♥♥♥ the souls games had.

but for now enjoy 1 more month of bleed meta. then next nerfbat falls down. this wont escape forever as you simply cannot buff the rest to be par ever.

swarm of flies already got a nerf today. that was also a bleed thing. the rest will follow sooner or later. they arent nerfing 1 thing and leave the rest alone for good. its a work in progress.

Yea, just be nice if everything else got buffed. At least colossal weapons got some love, but I feel From Software needs to do more so the meta isn't too much in favor of two things, that being bleed and frost right now.