Rant: Great Jar Knight are ridiculous

[Alas!]

I am at lvl 87 - 40 vig, armed with Cleanrots Knight Sword +16.
I fight Great Jar Knights: parry one in the heavy armor, ripost - 714 hp damage. Parry one in wizard gear - 780 hp damage. 4 parries in the row - mage barely below half hp - after missin 3120 HP (780 x 4)!!!

What in the hell! Are this phantoms based on VERY overleveled players or their HP just multiplied? Anyway - this is ridiculous. They alos can kill you in 4-5 hits. Wow.

Rant over.

[DayLight1943]

great jar knights are an end game level challenge placed in the early middle of the game. the ring you get for defeating them was one of the last rings you got in DS3 - havels ring +3, from the ringed city, when players were assumed to be around end game levels, SL90-125, with max level weapons.

great jar knights are also balanced for end game levels - RL125-150, with max level weapons. the difference is, the game offers this challenge to you much earlier. for players who want to grind it out or cheese them and get a super good ring for their build really early on, the option is there. if you dont want to grind it out, come back when you are higher level. its a top tier end game ring, so its an end game level challenge.

[nfinite.recursion]

If you fight them offline, it's always the same 3 relatively easy duelists.

Also, I wonder if my ghost was saved there at some point?

Alas! I am returned!

[dandinks]

its rigged against you if you play online, if even 1 of the npcs are mages you just instantly lose bc you get 1 shot even with 60 vigor, if its a melee npc you have a chance to win by poke attack spamming but sometimes the ai pulls some bs and 1 shots you from 2 miles away, my solution was just to play offline and use cliff cheese

[Lord Bob]

Originally posted by dandinks:

its rigged against you if you play online, if even 1 of the npcs are mages you just instantly lose bc you get 1 shot even with 60 vigor, if its a melee npc you have a chance to win by poke attack spamming but sometimes the ai pulls some bs and 1 shots you from 2 miles away, my solution was just to play offline and use cliff cheese

Five words: Carian Retaliation Ash of War.
Slap it on any infusable small or medium shield, learn to parry and watch how most of your issues with player builds encountered at the Great Jar become trivial, as most attacks (excluding twohanded colossal attacks, all whips and flails, all jumping attacks) can be parried and punished with big damage. [eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com]
Even better: use Miséricorde [eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com] for riposting the bad red man.

Mage does too much damage?
Stack some buffs [eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com] and learn how to stack them properly.
Lots of them are easily obtainable, like Spellproof Dried Liver, Golden Vow AoW (incant is even better if your build permits) or Commanders Standard also get some talismans that enhance your resistance to (elemental) damage (even if most, if not all of them, are less effective in pvp).

Learn how to utilize poison, rot, sleep, madness or other status effects. They are in the game for a reason and will help you in almost any situation.

Are there any more tools at your disposal like certain consumables that let you tank an entire hit,[eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com] or certain talismans that would enhance the abilities of your build even more?

Come on Tarnished, think, THINK! Use that brain of yours and stop complaining. There is no need for cheese, you are absolutely able to take on the challenges the game throws in your way. I believe in you!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxGRhd_iWuE

[Alas!]

Originally posted by Lord Bob:

Originally posted by dandinks:

its rigged against you if you play online, if even 1 of the npcs are mages you just instantly lose bc you get 1 shot even with 60 vigor, if its a melee npc you have a chance to win by poke attack spamming but sometimes the ai pulls some bs and 1 shots you from 2 miles away, my solution was just to play offline and use cliff cheese

Five words: Carian Retaliation Ash of War.
Slap it on any infusable small or medium shield, learn to parry and watch how most of your issues with player builds encountered at the Great Jar become trivial, as most attacks (excluding twohanded colossal attacks, all whips and flails, all jumping attacks) can be parried and punished with big damage. [eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com]
Even better: use Miséricorde [eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com] for riposting the bad red man.

Mage does too much damage?
Stack some buffs [eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com] and learn how to stack them properly.
Lots of them are easily obtainable, like Spellproof Dried Liver, Golden Vow AoW (incant is even better if your build permits) or Commanders Standard also get some talismans that enhance your resistance to (elemental) damage (even if most, if not all of them, are less effective in pvp).

Learn how to utilize poison, rot, sleep, madness or other status effects. They are in the game for a reason and will help you in almost any situation.

Are there any more tools at your disposal like certain consumables that let you tank an entire hit,[eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com] or certain talismans that would enhance the abilities of your build even more?

Come on Tarnished, think, THINK! Use that brain of yours and stop complaining. There is no need for cheese, you are absolutely able to take on the challenges the game throws in your way. I believe in you! :er_heart:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxGRhd_iWuE

I managed to kill them without all of this - apart from parry skill. You just need patience. Also, for some reason, NPCs really cant do ♥♥♥♥ against implaing thrust ash of war.

[MULTIPASS]

The NPC combat behavior is easy to exploit once you get used to it. Using the right skill/spell and proper timing and spacing, they can't do anything about it.

[Lord Bob]

Originally posted by Alas!:

You just need patience.

I agree and also believe that people are just not experimenting enough, but instead try to go for the strat they are most familiar with until they get frustrated.

Originally posted by Alas!:

Also, for some reason, NPCs really cant do ♥♥♥♥ against implaing thrust ash of war.

What do you mean by that? Will they not dodge roll and simply tank it?

[EF_Neo1st]

Originally posted by Alas!:

I am at lvl 87 - 40 vig, armed with Cleanrots Knight Sword +16.
I fight Great Jar Knights: parry one in the heavy armor, ripost - 714 hp damage. Parry one in wizard gear - 780 hp damage. 4 parries in the row - mage barely below half hp - after missin 3120 HP (780 x 4)!!!

What in the hell! Are this phantoms based on VERY overleveled players or their HP just multiplied? Anyway - this is ridiculous. They alos can kill you in 4-5 hits. Wow.

Rant over.

These ARE players builds but in a sort of mimic of that player, so yeah, you are fighting these players mimics.
Good luck to whoever find my STR/FAITH build with dual golden halberds, 99 END, 40VIG, 1200 base damage per golden halberd + jump attack talisman (enough to literaly 1shot some players in duels of around lvl 200 because "too much vigor too little defenses) with 168+45 defenses and light roll while still having some incantations.

By how I see many hosts fight, whoever take on that one will have a hell of a time dealling with.

[Lord Bob]

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

Originally posted by Alas!:

I am at lvl 87 - 40 vig, armed with Cleanrots Knight Sword +16.
I fight Great Jar Knights: parry one in the heavy armor, ripost - 714 hp damage. Parry one in wizard gear - 780 hp damage. 4 parries in the row - mage barely below half hp - after missin 3120 HP (780 x 4)!!!

What in the hell! Are this phantoms based on VERY overleveled players or their HP just multiplied? Anyway - this is ridiculous. They alos can kill you in 4-5 hits. Wow.

Rant over.

These ARE players builds but in a sort of mimic of that player, so yeah, you are fighting these players mimics.
Good luck to whoever find my STR/FAITH build with dual golden halberds, 99 END, 40VIG, 1200 base damage with 168+45 defenses and light roll while still having some incantations.

By how I see many hosts fight, whoever take on that one will have a hell of a time dealling with.

Even if I don't have confirmation on whether or not stats get transfered to the player builds fought at the Great Jar, I kind of doubt they are a direct carbon copy of actual build, including the AR.
Also given that the npc invader AI is kind of dense, it's not very difficult to defeat any of them.

But imagine this was froms first title and it was as broken as Dark Souls was back in the day:
the builds would probably be a direct copy, including max level chars and the most broken setups with insane damage output lmao

[EF_Neo1st]

Originally posted by Lord Bob:

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

These ARE players builds but in a sort of mimic of that player, so yeah, you are fighting these players mimics.
Good luck to whoever find my STR/FAITH build with dual golden halberds, 99 END, 40VIG, 1200 base damage with 168+45 defenses and light roll while still having some incantations.

By how I see many hosts fight, whoever take on that one will have a hell of a time dealling with.

Even if I don't have confirmation on whether or not stats get transfered to the player builds fought at the Great Jar, I kind of doubt they are a direct carbon copy of actual build, including the AR.
Also given that the npc invader AI is kind of dense, it's not very difficult to defeat any of them.

But imagine this was froms first title and it was as broken as Dark Souls was back in the day:
the builds would probably be a direct copy, including max level chars and the most broken setups with insane damage output lmao

A mimic tend to deal less damage but would still it would be heavy damage, on enemies like Rotten Duelist and the Omens at the capital sewers I can deal 2400~2700 damage with jump attack (dual golden halberds, NG+), but the mimic is more tanky (and my char is tanky af on resistances and defenses while carrying that much armor and 2 Giolden Halberds and still being light load, meaning better dodges).

Yes, I have an idea of how much damage my mimic can deal (also a jump attack with 2 golden halberds is "almost" guaranteed a stagger).

[Lord Bob]

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

Originally posted by Lord Bob:

Even if I don't have confirmation on whether or not stats get transfered to the player builds fought at the Great Jar, I kind of doubt they are a direct carbon copy of actual build, including the AR.
Also given that the npc invader AI is kind of dense, it's not very difficult to defeat any of them.

But imagine this was froms first title and it was as broken as Dark Souls was back in the day:
the builds would probably be a direct copy, including max level chars and the most broken setups with insane damage output lmao

A mimic tend to deal less damage but would still it would be heavy damage, on enemies like Rotten Duelist and the Omens at the capital sewers I can deal 2400~2700 damage with jump attack (dual golden halberds, NG+), but the mimic is more tanky (and my char is tanky af on resistances and defenses while carrying that much armor and 2 Giolden Halberds and still being light load, meaning better dodges).

Yes, I have an idea of how much damage my mimic can deal (also a jump attack with 2 golden halberds is "almost" guaranteed a stagger).

There is no doubt a mimic would deal a lot of damage, even more so when it's upgraded.

From your post I'm gathering that you are talking about the mimic tear summon and you assume that it would translate into how strong the Jar summons are?
Or were you simply refering to the summons themselves when you said 'mimic'?

[EF_Neo1st]

Originally posted by Lord Bob:

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

A mimic tend to deal less damage but would still it would be heavy damage, on enemies like Rotten Duelist and the Omens at the capital sewers I can deal 2400~2700 damage with jump attack (dual golden halberds, NG+), but the mimic is more tanky (and my char is tanky af on resistances and defenses while carrying that much armor and 2 Giolden Halberds and still being light load, meaning better dodges).

Yes, I have an idea of how much damage my mimic can deal (also a jump attack with 2 golden halberds is "almost" guaranteed a stagger).

There is no doubt a mimic would deal a lot of damage, even more so when it's upgraded.

From your post I'm gathering that you are talking about the mimic tear summon and you assume that it would translate into how strong the Jar summons are?
Or were you simply refering to the summons themselves when you said 'mimic'?

I am guessing the Jar summons are like mimics.
There are some of these that deal a huge amount of damage and survive a lot while some others dont deal much damage and barely survive (like, I could 1shot one of these once with my jump attack, it is sort of the player got there with low VIG, no armor and just beaten the 3 Jar summons and that player build got copy there, like a mimic).
I dont know how it would work at offline, maybe the game have a set of random builds in it to allow that or if you ever went online it gets the last builds available.

Also, I usually take little damage from these (I take about 5 or 6 hits to die, maybe more due to my defenses) but some hit me quite hard (like killing me in 3 hits, some of these even in 2 hits).
So if the player that fights my mimic dont have a high damage to get through the defenses much likely the fight will be long and if that player dont have a good defense the HP will be eaten quite fast too.

[Lord Bob]

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

Originally posted by Lord Bob:

There is no doubt a mimic would deal a lot of damage, even more so when it's upgraded.

From your post I'm gathering that you are talking about the mimic tear summon and you assume that it would translate into how strong the Jar summons are?
Or were you simply refering to the summons themselves when you said 'mimic'?

I am guessing the Jar summons are like mimics.
There are some of these that deal a huge amount of damage and survive a lot while some tohers dont deal much damage and barely survive (like, I could 1shot one of these once with my jump attack, it is sort of the player got there with low VIG, no armor and just beaten the 3 Jar summons and that player build got copy there, like a mimic).
I dont know how it would work at offline, maybe the game have a set of random builds in it to allow that or if you ever went online it gets the last builds available.

Oh I see. Yeah it's fair to assume it works like this.

I believe the Jar Warriors have an extended healthpool (or so it appeared to me), especially compared to Fias summons, which often just die in a couple of hits or even a single one.
I'm wondering if those players builds have only a fraction of their players overall available hp, as Fia takes some of it on purpose when being hugged.
It would also be interesting to know if both types of summons scale with ng cycle.

Apparently the Warrior Jar builds which are available offline are the same three builds every time you summon them, so no randomization if I'm not mistaken.

[cridus]

just cheese them with a colossal sword's crouch attacks. or by luring them near a cliff so they jump off.

[Cootswig]

The run back is ridiculous aswell.