Crackpot Theory - The player is not actually a tarnished

[Greywander]

Out of all the characters that the loresmiths have looked into for further elucidation, there is one that I have not seen much effort put in to uncover their proper place in the lore, and that's the player character themselves. So I want to put forward a crackpot theory that our character is not actually tarnished, or at least, not a normal tarnished.

Since this is a Steam forum post and not a 50 minute lore video, I'll try to be concise and skip the lengthy logical discussion and focus on the major points. (It's me from the future. I failed, but I hope you enjoy reading nonetheless.)

1. Nameless Demigod

There's already a theory circulating that the player is one of the nameless demigods, the unwanted children of Marika sealed within the wandering mausoleums. This isn't the theory I'm discussing, though there is some overlap, so I just wanted to mention it briefly.

2. A Tarnished of no renown

"And one other. Whom grace would again bless. A Tarnished of no renown." (Narrator, intro cutscene)

First, I want to draw attention to the "of no renown" bit. No one knows who we are. This is important, so remember it.

Second, the narrator outright calls us a tarnished, so that's it, right? The theory is dead in the water. Well, not necessarily. There are three options:
- It's exactly as it seems, we're tarnished, end of story, case closed.
- We're dealing with an unreliable narrator, and what we're told may not be true.
- Technically, from a certain point of view, we are """tarnished""".

I don't think any of these can be easily dismissed. Personally, I find the third option to be the most interesting, which is why we need to understand just what a tarnished is before we proceed further.

3. What even is it is even is a tarnished even?

"My Lord, and thy warriors. I divest each of thee of thy grace. With thine eyes dimmed, ye will be driven from the Lands Between. Ye will wage war in a land afar, where ye will live, and die.

"Then, after thy death, I will give back what I once claimed. Return to the Lands Between, wage war, and brandish the Elden Ring. Grow strong in the face of death. Warriors of my lord. Lord Godfrey." (Melina, repeating the spoken echoes of Marika)

We're meant to believe that the tarnished are the soldiers of Godfrey's army, divested of grace and exiled from the Lands Between, only to be reinstated and called back at a later time. Well, right away we see that Godfrey himself is tarnished, but despite such is still on a whole other level from a rank and file soldier. So even in this narrow scope there is still room for something beyond just a "normal" tarnished.

But I'm extremely skeptical that this is the limit of the tarnished. Surely not every tarnished we see is a former soldier from Godfrey's army. In fact, the qualification to be a tarnished is nothing more than to have once had grace, and then been divested of it. Perhaps this even includes those who never had grace in the first place. That... is an extremely broad description that could include almost anything. Are the Carians a form of tarnished, since they reject the Erdtree? Are the hornsent tarnished?

4. Beautiful eyes

"You are a Tarnished, I can see it." (Kalé)

Why does anyone think we're tarnished in the first place? Almost everyone we meet immediately identifies us as tarnished. But if we're someone of no renown, how could they possibly know? It's in the eyes.

"And who knows, perhaps some time down the line, the grace of gold will return to those Tarnished eyes of yours." (Kenneth Haight)

We lack the grace of gold in our eyes, but that doesn't necessarily mean that we're one of Godfrey's soldiers. Perhaps we were never blessed with grace in the first place, or we are of a people that is in opposition to the Erdtree. Perhaps we were divested of grace in an entirely unrelated incident, for entirely different reasons.

There's also the possibility that we do have grace, but it's being disguised or hidden. The Iris of Occultation is one possible means by which this could be achieved. This could trick people into assuming we are tarnished, even if we are not.

5. The All-Knowing

"I know... in my bones... A Tarnished cannot become a Lord. Not even you." (Gideon Ofnir)

Obviously Gideon is wrong, since we do in fact become Elden Lord. And a lot of people use that as a justification to dunk on the self-proclaimed "all-knowing". But perhaps we've incorrectly assessed which part he got wrong. It's not unreasonable to think that the "all-knowing" might have had a legitimate reason to think a tarnished could never become Elden Lord. But what if he were mistaken about us being a normal tarnished?

Remember, we are someone "of no renown", so he has no idea who we are. It's ironic, as you'd think the self-proclaimed "all-knowing" would be the one person who actually did know us.

At the end of the day, there are two options here:
- It is not, in fact, impossible for a tarnished to become a lord.
- It is impossible, and therefore we must not be tarnished.

6. You need ladies

"Have you heard of the Finger Maidens? They serve the Two Fingers, offering guidance, and aid, to the Tarnished. But you, I am afraid, are maidenless." (Melina)

One of the greatest mysteries that actually has been discussed regarding the player character is what happened to our maiden? The two most common theories are that our maiden is the dead one at the Chapel of Anticipation, possibly killed by the grafted scion. Or that Therolina is our finger maiden, but she was intercepted by Seluvis and turned into a puppet before meeting up with us.

A third option is that we never had a maiden to begin with. But why? Well, there are a couple of reasons:
- We're not tarnished. Hence, no maiden.
- We are in opposition to the Two Fingers, so why would they send us a maiden?

Okay, but what about the Two Fingers at the Roundtable Hold? TBH, I'm not sure. Perhaps they really are senile and don't recognize us as anything other than a normal tarnished. Perhaps they're stuck in the past and aren't aware of whatever it is that we really are.

7. Violate the Golden Order

"One of his kind is sure to seek the Elden Ring. ...Even if it does violate the Golden Order..." (Melina)

No matter how you look at this line, it's very odd. Multiple times, we're told by multiple characters that the purpose of the tarnished is to seek the Elden Ring. Varré says it, Gideon says it. The idea that Melina is trying to find a tarnished that will seek the Elden Ring is a little silly, since they should be all over the place.

Furthermore, no one else ever indicates that seeking the Elden Ring would violate the Golden Order. In fact, it seems to be the Order itself that is promoting the search for the Elden Ring. It's all just very strange.

The conclusion, then, is that Melina is specifically searching for a tarnished willing to violate the Golden Order. Seeking the Elden Ring is incidental, the motivation to dangle in front of her tarnished accomplice. But why? We know her purpose is that of the kindling maiden, fated to burn the Erdtree, but does she know that yet? Supposedly she wants us to take her to the Erdtree to learn her purpose. Either she's lying to us, has hidden motives, or we're very wrong about what's going on here.

Something interesting is that Melina never actually calls us "tarnished". The closest she gets is when she refers to our "tarnished brethren". So what if we're not actually tarnished, and Melina knows what we are, even if she doesn't know who we are. Suddenly, the above line takes on an entirely new meaning.

With this new context, we can reinterpret the line to mean that:
- "His kind" is not referring to the tarnished.
- We aren't normally supposed to seek the Elden Ring, though Melina expects at least one person like us to do so.
- Someone like us seeking the Elden Ring is a violation of the Golden Order.

And now things start to come together.

Why are we without grace? Because we are outside of or in opposition to the Golden Order.
Why don't we have a maiden? See above. The Two Fingers would never send us one.
Why would it be a violation of the Golden Order for us to seek the Elden Ring? See above.

But why, then, do we see the guidance of grace? Possibly because Marika is herself involved in a conflict with the Two Fingers and Greater Will. Basically, Marika is going behind their back to bring in someone from outside who can subvert their influence.

8. Useful idiot? Or usurper?

"Mm, indeed. Grace's guidance holds the answers. It will lead you Tarnished to the path you are meant to follow. Even if it leads you to your grave." (Varré)

There's a very interesting detail when you enter the Horah Loux fight. We can briefly see Godfrey holding Morgott's body before it disintegrates into golden motes of grace, which flow like the guidance of grace... from Godfrey to ourselves. One possible interpretation of this is that the guidance of grace is leading Godfrey to kill us and claim his place as Elden Lord. But why?

Well, it's simple. We burned the thorns blocking the way. Marika no longer has any use for us.

Why us, though? Well, she needed someone to burn away the thorns, which required burning the Erdtree and unleashing Destined Death. Things a devout follower of the Golden Order would never do. Thus she needed to bring someone in from outside the Order.

To bad for Marika we beat Godfrey's butt and become Elden Lord ourselves.

9. Okay, but then who are we really?

Well that's the question now, isn't it? The nameless demigod theory has already been mentioned, but here's a few others.

Cast off piece of Miquella

"Not only are you a superb fighter, but people want to trust you. I've seen it.

"So I just wanted to get the apology out of the way, beforehand. Since you're so scary and all." (Rogier)

We evoke trust, but we're also super scary? Who else do we know who is simultaneously supernaturally charming but also the most fearsome empyrean? We've also seen this kind of thing happen with Malenia and her "children", so it's at least plausible.

One Who Lives in Death

"These souls have committed no offence. They have every right to life, only, they happened to touch upon a flaw in the Order." (Rogier)

Unlikely, but it's noteworthy that Those Who Live in Death are contrary to the Golden Order, not because of something they've done wrong, but because of a flaw in the Order. This could even explain why we, in particular, keep coming back to life, while other tarnished and demigods do not. We might even be some kind of reincarnation of Godwyn.

Torrent's former master

"I was entrusted this, for thee. By Torrent's former master." (Renna)

"Torrent had your measure from the very start. Whereas I merely pretended." (Melina)

It's notable that Melina seems to recognize what are, but not who we are. And Ranni doesn't even recognize what we are, referring to us merely as "Tarnished". But then, why does she appear at the Church of Elleh to give us the Spirit Calling Bell? It seems she had some kind of prior arrangement, made with Torrent's former master. We don't know who that former master is, or why he wanted us to have the bell. Seems Ranni doesn't know, either.

But you know who does know? Torrent. Torrent seems to be the only character in the game to actually recognize who we are.

Anyway, thanks for reading. I'm hoping to get more people looking into this topic, since I think there's more here than we realize.

[LuckyCheshire]

Interesting analysis. You make your points well.

One thing that seems valuable to note is that Torrent is a (spirit) Horned Beast, which means that he originated in the Land of Shadow. Does that necessarily mean anything? No, but it still offers an interesting clue.

Another interesting thing to note is that the protagonist could have originated anywhere, based on the presets for the character creator. Notably the protagonist could even be a Numen or from the Land of Reeds. It's possible that the protagonist was able to undergo rebirth before the game started, but that only raises even more questions.

[Tommy Wiseau]

Im the bearer of the curse nub.

[Caramel_Clown]

I always liked the idea that prisoner class might be the canonical protagonist. There's some interesting implications of who you might be going from item descriptions and other lore tidbits.

[Greywander]

Yes, these games always have a canonical protagonist. They kind if have to if/when a sequel gets made. Dark Souls mostly gets around this by setting the games so distantly apart, but even so the protagonists from the previous games still exist as characters and still have some lore associated with them.

One last tidbit: If we do assume that Melina knows what we are, then there's a big clue in how she first greets us. "Traveler from beyond the fog." We come from outside the Lands Between, which isn't a big shocker since that where all the other tarnished are also coming from. But it is interesting that that's how she chooses to address us. Not as tarnished, but as a traveler. Perhaps we weren't called back, but rather came under our own power.

[Sabaithal]

Interesting analysis, though there are a few details I disagree with. Mainly the implication that Marika as she currently is, is guiding ANYONE, much less the player. I don't think she's capable of doing this, in fact I don't think she's even conscious, and maybe is soul dead.

When we enter the Erdtree she is the first thing we see, suspended and half destroyed on a rune-arc (exactly like Elden beast's grapple attack btw, complete with impaled holy spear). When she drops, and turns into Radagon we see the inside of his body. More specifically we see the Elden Ring itself on the inside of his body.

I don't think Radagon is in there either. What we are looking at is a corpse being sock-puppeted by the Elden Beast. Hence when you "kill" said corpse is what triggers EB to show itself, and transform the corpse into a rather grotesque sword for itself (seriously, look at it closely).

Even after killing the beast and placing her severed head back on her body... its just a husk. There's no life left in there. Marika/Radagon are gone.

[Sergalius]

Ancient ruins of rauh is a interesting place.
They dont have the golden sky.
They are old.
we have the ancient civilization predating elden ring.
And narrator is telling the story BEYOND the lands...
We are something that came outside. We have the crucible beast as out steed. while it rumored that it is a beginning of life.

Tarnished is basically some entity who could be the avatar of Crucible God or another Diety.
We are the maker's shadow.