Armor damage comparisons (Is heavy armor worthless?)

[Armando Broncas]

So I did this "quick" tests on one of those heavy armored knights of the DLC with a mace that do a heavy holy damage attack and received this hit with 4 different sets of armor:

• Naked
• Travellers set (light)
• Black knife set (Medium?)
• Bullgoat armor (Heavy)

The test is with the 20% reduction of the Dragoncrest talisman AND without it.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3282754144

My conclusion is that the difference is very minimal in comparison to the "medium" armor set and that it is much better to just use the dragoncrest talisman, I'm going to continue to use it because its my build but the reality is you are not missing out on a lot and in fact I have to use my talisman slots for carry weight even with 60 stamina so you are better just wearing something lighter and having 2 talismans for somethign more useful than weight capacity.

UPDATED IMAGE WITH PURE PHYSICAL EXAMPLES

SORRY I ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up the Black knife set with Dragon crest ON, it's updated now

[Archdeacon Monseigneur]

Vinnolo eredeti hozzászólása:

if you arent playing fashion souls, you arent playing the game right

there's a balance to be struck between drip and efficiency. its very much possible to look dope af while also reaching good poise and damage negation.

[Clockwork]

Archdeacon Monseigneur eredeti hozzászólása:

Vinnolo eredeti hozzászólása:

if you arent playing fashion souls, you arent playing the game right

there's a balance to be struck between drip and efficiency. its very much possible to look dope af while also reaching good poise and damage negation.

This. With Malenia helm, Tree Sentinel set and Dragoncrest Greatshield talisman, I feel like I have a modicum of drip and still a respectable amount of damage mitigation.

[zero]

i mean the test pretty clearly shows that its something to consider, its a noticeable jump between each tier.

[Clockwork]

zero eredeti hozzászólása:

i mean the test pretty clearly shows that its something to consider, its a noticeable jump between each tier.

I feel like the tested enemy does more than just physical damage, because of which physical damage mitigation alone isn't enough

[Armando Broncas]

Silyon eredeti hozzászólása:

Armando Broncas eredeti hozzászólása:

This:

https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Dragoncrest+Greatshield+Talisman

Also light armor for me is something like the traveller set or any of the garbs mages use.

See, I consider stuff like the mage or wandering noble outfits to be a separate category altogether. Clothing, not armor at all which is reflected in non-existent defensive stats. I think previous Souls games referred to them as "ultra-light" sets. Difference of definitions.

I'm mostly concerned that there's a misunderstanding about how the defensive talismans work. They don't just shave 20% off whatever damage of that type you take. What they do is increase the existing defensive stats of the talisman's type by the percentage stated by that talisman. So for example, if your armor gives you a flat 50 resistance to slash damage, the greatshield talisman would give you +20% of that 50 or an extra 10 resistance. And you can see this reflected in the defensive stats when you equip it if you hit Y (on the controller, idk for keyboard).

Which means that you're half-right. For Lighter armors the Greatshield talisman is barely worth using because +20% of 10 is only 2 extra points. But for heavier armors like Bull-goat, the difference is MUCH bigger and it's virtually a staple slot.

You litterally dont need to make this more complicated, just look at the images and see the damage, talisman or not, if you see the heavy armor damage received and you say "its worth it" go for it if not dont do it, IMO it's not but I am making a build around it anyways.

Heavy armor unless you really, really want it it's just not worth it.

[Knavenformed]

Archdeacon Monseigneur eredeti hozzászólása:

there's a balance to be struck between drip and efficiency. its very much possible to look dope af while also reaching good poise and damage negation.

Too bad most armored medium armor sets don't reach 51 poise to take a hit from a small mob

[Kung Fu RUSSEL]

Well I can't say much to it's effectiveness in PvE as I don't really test things in that context. But in PvP it is crucial because of the static like hyper armor of high poise sets.
You need about 88 poise to not flinch light weapons and about 125+ poise for heavy weapons with the exception of collasal weapon class which often get their own hyper armor on swing as well, making it easier to land and win trades.

The Damage Reduction Talismans are worth it in PvE I've round but they do NOT work the same in PvP and are barely even noticeable in PvP damage. Basically becoming useless.

That's armor in a multi-player context, but Fashion Souls will always take priority. I don't care if I'm not being efficient, as long as I look good doing it.

[Armando Broncas]

Cacomistle eredeti hozzászólása:

Why does there need to be testing on armor? The game literally tells you how much damage is mitigated. If it says 40% damage is mitigated, you take 40% less damage. There's nothing to test.

Same thing with dragon crest. If you're fighting against physical damage, you'll take 20% less damage. That's it... why are we testing this as if we need to understand what 20% is?

According to the wiki, the black knife set is a 22.5% damage resist for physical, and bull goat is 38.5. 77.5/62.5=1.24, so you'll take 24% more damage with the black knife set, or about 19.5% less damage from physical with the heavy armor.

I think an actual test, or well its also just numbers but it takes more than searching a wiki page to figure out, is how much damage reduction you can get per point of endurance compared to how much damage you could get from pointing the same points into a damage stat. I'm also not going to do that cause it'd take more effort than searching a wiki page and just looking at the damage reduction value, especially since it changes a lot based on weapon (for instance, I can't wear full bull goat, but I can wear like 34% damage reduction with 35 endurance since I'm using backhand blades and they're quite light).

Because the numbers are not a good representation of what actually happens which is that armor, specifically heavy armor is kinda lame for its hefty costs.

[Cacomistle]

Armando Broncas eredeti hozzászólása:

Cacomistle eredeti hozzászólása:

Why does there need to be testing on armor? The game literally tells you how much damage is mitigated. If it says 40% damage is mitigated, you take 40% less damage. There's nothing to test.

Same thing with dragon crest. If you're fighting against physical damage, you'll take 20% less damage. That's it... why are we testing this as if we need to understand what 20% is?

According to the wiki, the black knife set is a 22.5% damage resist for physical, and bull goat is 38.5. 77.5/62.5=1.24, so you'll take 24% more damage with the black knife set, or about 19.5% less damage from physical with the heavy armor.

I think an actual test, or well its also just numbers but it takes more than searching a wiki page to figure out, is how much damage reduction you can get per point of endurance compared to how much damage you could get from pointing the same points into a damage stat. I'm also not going to do that cause it'd take more effort than searching a wiki page and just looking at the damage reduction value, especially since it changes a lot based on weapon (for instance, I can't wear full bull goat, but I can wear like 34% damage reduction with 35 endurance since I'm using backhand blades and they're quite light).

Because the numbers are not a good representation of what actually happens which is that armor, specifically heavy armor is kinda lame for its hefty costs.

How is it not a good representation.

The math shows you take 20% less damage with the heavy armor you chose compared to the medium armor you chose. Do you really need to look at the image to tell what 20% less of a bar looks like?

[Armando Broncas]

Cacomistle eredeti hozzászólása:

Armando Broncas eredeti hozzászólása:

Because the numbers are not a good representation of what actually happens which is that armor, specifically heavy armor is kinda lame for its hefty costs.

How is it not a good representation.

The math shows you take 20% less damage with the heavy armor you chose compared to the medium armor you chose. Do you really need to look at the image to tell what 20% less of a bar looks like?

Yes you litterally need first hand experience to see what the numbers really look like, its that simple, you can not just do math on a paper and think that is reality.

[Cacomistle]

Silyon eredeti hozzászólása:

Armando Broncas eredeti hozzászólása:

This:

https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Dragoncrest+Greatshield+Talisman

Also light armor for me is something like the traveller set or any of the garbs mages use.

See, I consider stuff like the mage or wandering noble outfits to be a separate category altogether. Clothing, not armor at all which is reflected in non-existent defensive stats. I think previous Souls games referred to them as "ultra-light" sets. Difference of definitions.

I'm mostly concerned that there's a misunderstanding about how the defensive talismans work. They don't just shave 20% off whatever damage of that type you take. What they do is increase the existing defensive stats of the talisman's type by the percentage stated by that talisman. So for example, if your armor gives you a flat 50 resistance to slash damage, the greatshield talisman would give you +20% of that 50 or an extra 10 resistance. And you can see this reflected in the defensive stats when you equip it if you hit Y (on the controller, idk for keyboard).

Which means that you're half-right. For Lighter armors the Greatshield talisman is barely worth using because +20% of 10 is only 2 extra points. But for heavier armors like Bull-goat, the difference is MUCH bigger and it's virtually a staple slot.

That's not how it works.

Dragoncrest greatshield talisman causes you to take 20% less physical damage. Its that simple. If you were taking 100 damage, you'll now take 80.

If you put it on with 0 armor, you'll have 20% armor.

If you put it on with 10% armor, you'll have 28% armor now.

If you don't believe me, go put it on with no armor. You'll have 20% armor, as you'd expect from a 20% armor item.

[zero]

Clockwork eredeti hozzászólása:

zero eredeti hozzászólása:

i mean the test pretty clearly shows that its something to consider, its a noticeable jump between each tier.

I feel like the tested enemy does more than just physical damage, because of which physical damage mitigation alone isn't enough

you know what that is a completely fair point, it'd have to be aganist something pure physcial for more accurate results.

[Cacomistle]

Armando Broncas eredeti hozzászólása:

Cacomistle eredeti hozzászólása:

How is it not a good representation.

The math shows you take 20% less damage with the heavy armor you chose compared to the medium armor you chose. Do you really need to look at the image to tell what 20% less of a bar looks like?

Yes you litterally need first hand experience to see what the numbers really look like, its that simple, you can not just do math on a paper and think that is reality.

I just did though. Are you telling me that's not 20% less damage? The image you showed looks a lot like 20% damage reduction. I've also seen bars that have 20% cut off before, even if that required 1st hand experience to imagine, I have that experience already.

Technically, its probably not exactly 20% cause part of that weapon's damage is holy. But its not like I'm figuring out the exact number from your picture either (and I could figure it out if I just looked up that weapon's damage). And its probably very close to 20%, cause the heavy armor also has more holy protection (probably, I didn't actually look).

All you need the experiment for is to make sure the game isn't bugged or something.

Personally I think just saying its 20% damage reduction is far more intuitive than looking at a bar and estimating the damage resist from that.

I mean maybe against an actual boss enemy I'd want to actually see it in action, cause the difference between say getting 2 shot and 3 shot is pretty big and I don't want to (or even know how to) look up damage on every boss attack. But, first of all that's not an enemy that I care about how many hits I can survive against, and second I can't tell from your picture whether the bull goat armor is making you survive an extra hit.

[Armando Broncas]

Cacomistle eredeti hozzászólása:

Armando Broncas eredeti hozzászólása:

Yes you litterally need first hand experience to see what the numbers really look like, its that simple, you can not just do math on a paper and think that is reality.

I just did though. Are you telling me that's not 20% less damage? The image you showed looks a lot like 20% damage reduction. I've also seen bars that have 20% cut off before, even if that required 1st hand experience to imagine, I have that experience already.

Technically, its probably not exactly 20% cause part of that weapon's damage is holy. But its not like I'm figuring out the exact number from your picture either (and I could figure it out if I just looked up that weapon's damage). And its probably very close to 20%, cause the heavy armor also has more holy protection (probably, I didn't actually look).

All you need the experiment for is to make sure the game isn't bugged or something.

Personally I think just saying its 20% damage reduction is far more intuitive than looking at a bar and estimating the damage resist from that.

I mean maybe against an actual boss enemy I'd want to actually see it in action, cause the difference between say getting 2 shot and 3 shot is pretty big and I don't want to (or even know how to) look up damage on every boss attack. But, first of all that's not an enemy that I care about how many hits I can survive against, and second I can't tell from your picture whether the bull goat armor is making you survive an extra hit.

Armando Broncas eredeti hozzászólása:

Yes you litterally need first hand experience to see what the numbers really look like, its that simple, you can not just do math on a paper and think that is reality.

[zero]

bro thinks numbers can be wrong? wild