Wait why is Tarnished considered a hero exactly?

[Nemerlight]

You invade castles, kill everyone and take their stuff. What part of that is heroic to you? What you bring freedom to these lands? Freedom from what?

[Dr.Acula]

Originally posted by Persona Au Gratin:

Originally posted by Dr.Acula:

. I'd say the demon you fight at start is something of guard in that place.

See, I said what I did to basically test if you were full of ♥♥♥♥ and you basically are. "Uh you're undead." Demon's Souls is literally the most explicit, unambiguous as to what this type of character is in the entirety of this genre. You have no idea what you're talking about with all that other nonsense because you're failing to see what I'm criticizing.

Why are you attacking me? We're both criticizing the Elden Ring opening.

[Persona Au Gratin]

Originally posted by vamirez:

Originally posted by Persona Au Gratin:

Coming in to try to pat me on the head about the fact that it's a mythological device is literally not saying anything I didn't know. You even speculate out loud about how "I wonder what the difference is between Grafted Scion and a game I don't understand." Like, if you have no basis of knowing what I'm criticizing because you never played Demon's Souls, trying to "explain" something I already knew to me, which is that "Beyond the Fog" is an area outside of The Lands Between is asinine. I even told a friend of mine that and how it's just nonsensical to plop the player at the Chapel of Anticipation and have this kind of nonsequitur, gamey/unmotivated battle is such a stark contrast to the way Demon's Souls opening area was, the very thing it's in the tradition of, which was absolutely clear about what the player had done and was attempting to do.

I'm explaining something you clearly don't know now, but you responded to me like somehow the opposite is the case. It's not the least bit annoying.

Who except you said I don't know Demons Souls?

You literally asked "What's the difference between Grafted Scion and Demon's Souls opening?" Instead of just asking what that is, you're explaining stuff that is pretty easy to understand, just like Dr Acula. We're not talking about the genre stuff, we're talking about the very specifics of the games in question. "Well it's like being outside of divinity." So you have no idea what "Crossing the Fog" is in Demon's Souls and what the various heroes who went into Boletaria were doing? What King Allant did?

"Uh it's just like King's Field!" You guys are truly bad at this. I described the tutorial area of Demon's Souls implying it was better than Elden Ring and none of you seem to be able to grasp just why that is while trying to vomit out the same tired explanation anyone who is interested in these games' plot would know.

King Allant sought Soul Power and it unleashed a flood of demons onto Boletaria, which was covered in FOG. To cross the fog in Demon's Souls means to enter Boletaria from the outside. The tutorial area is the player character ENTERING BOLETARIA. At the end, you face a monster, one Dragon or THE Dragon God, that you cannot kill and you die, trapping you in the Nexus. It's probably the clearest this kind of tutorial has ever been. Dark Souls is pretty clear, Dark Souls 2 is pretty clear, Dark Souls 3... etc, but as far as "You have to be stupid to misunderstand this." That is why I mentioned it.

Dr Acula, you're getting criticized by me because, just like above, YOU don't know either. You're all trying to explain something when it comes to just knowing what the actual game is about, you guys fall back to these dumb genre platitudes. You have no idea what you're talking about and you're trying to say these games are "hard/easy to understand." No one I've spoken to directly understands what a "clear explanation is" apparently lmfao.

[Agravain]

Originally posted by fmalfeas:

Originally posted by Alpharius:

I would say we (The tarnished) are a walking talking calamity. Very few npcs whom we interact with have good fates that follow their questline. Not to mention half of the folks we kill were probably just sitting around vibing until some discount doom slayer turns up and shreds their very souls. Or heck, the endings overall ain't all that moral either, absolutely none that I can think of.

If you ignore the atrocity that had to be committed to get there, Ranni's Age of Stars is a moral ending, since it's all about removing ALL the gods. No more Scarlet Rot, Frenzied Flame, Two Fingers, Three Fingers, Greater Will, Demigods, Voidspawn, etc. All of that hauled off into deep space and imprisoned there by Ranni forever, giving people the chance to choose their own fate without some god wrecking them for giggles.

But getting there...oh boy, that's a nasty piece of work.

The age of stars ending's "morality" if one wishes to use such a term. Is almost entirely based around the ends justifying the means. Removing all the things you mentioned would be nice, however, Ranni is directly responsible for every blight that had occurred after the night of the black knives. An example would be that her conspiracy set in motion the very events that freed the scarlet rot upon the surface world. Her actions led directly to the very events that allow you (The character), to even have the choice of endings. I would consider it to be the best of the bad options if you're looking at outcomes alone.

[vamirez]

Originally posted by Persona Au Gratin:

Originally posted by vamirez:

Who except you said I don't know Demons Souls?

You literally asked "What's the difference between Grafted Scion and Demon's Souls opening?" Instead of just asking what that is, you're explaining stuff that is pretty easy to understand, just like Dr Acula. We're not talking about the genre stuff, we're talking about the very specifics of the games in question. "Well it's like being outside of divinity." So you have no idea what "Crossing the Fog" is in Demon's Souls and what the various heroes who went into Boletaria were doing? What King Allant did?

"Uh it's just like King's Field!" You guys are truly bad at this. I described the tutorial area of Demon's Souls implying it was better than Elden Ring and none of you seem to be able to grasp just why that is while trying to vomit out the same tired explanation anyone who is interested in these games' plot would know.

King Allant sought Soul Power and it unleashed a flood of demons onto Boletaria, which was covered in FOG. To cross the fog in Demon's Souls means to enter Boletaria from the outside. The tutorial area is the player character ENTERING BOLETARIA. At the end, you face a monster, one Dragon or THE Dragon God, that you cannot kill and you die, trapping you in the Nexus. It's probably the clearest this kind of tutorial has ever been. Dark Souls is pretty clear, Dark Souls 2 is pretty clear, Dark Souls 3... etc, but as far as "You have to be stupid to misunderstand this." That is why I mentioned it.

Dr Acula, you're getting criticized by me because, just like above, YOU don't know either. You're all trying to explain something when it comes to just knowing what the actual game is about, you guys fall back to these dumb genre platitudes. You have no idea what you're talking about and you're trying to say these games are "hard/easy to understand." No one I've spoken to directly understands what a "clear explanation is" apparently lmfao.

Dude.

When you criticize that the fog doesn't make sense in ER and talk about Demons, where the fog was a very specific thing...

...ofc it makes sense to mention that in their other games FS likes to hide the setting behind a fog, too.

"Well it's like being outside of divinity"

I literally did not say that. That is not my quote.

And yeah, what is the big difference between that first demon you encounter in Demons, which is supposed to kill you, after which you get caught in the Nexus, and the Grafted Scion, which is put there by Godrick to kill newly arrived Tarnished?

[Persona Au Gratin]

Originally posted by vamirez:

Originally posted by Persona Au Gratin:

You literally asked "What's the difference between Grafted Scion and Demon's Souls opening?" Instead of just asking what that is, you're explaining stuff that is pretty easy to understand, just like Dr Acula. We're not talking about the genre stuff, we're talking about the very specifics of the games in question. "Well it's like being outside of divinity." So you have no idea what "Crossing the Fog" is in Demon's Souls and what the various heroes who went into Boletaria were doing? What King Allant did?

"Uh it's just like King's Field!" You guys are truly bad at this. I described the tutorial area of Demon's Souls implying it was better than Elden Ring and none of you seem to be able to grasp just why that is while trying to vomit out the same tired explanation anyone who is interested in these games' plot would know.

King Allant sought Soul Power and it unleashed a flood of demons onto Boletaria, which was covered in FOG. To cross the fog in Demon's Souls means to enter Boletaria from the outside. The tutorial area is the player character ENTERING BOLETARIA. At the end, you face a monster, one Dragon or THE Dragon God, that you cannot kill and you die, trapping you in the Nexus. It's probably the clearest this kind of tutorial has ever been. Dark Souls is pretty clear, Dark Souls 2 is pretty clear, Dark Souls 3... etc, but as far as "You have to be stupid to misunderstand this." That is why I mentioned it.

Dr Acula, you're getting criticized by me because, just like above, YOU don't know either. You're all trying to explain something when it comes to just knowing what the actual game is about, you guys fall back to these dumb genre platitudes. You have no idea what you're talking about and you're trying to say these games are "hard/easy to understand." No one I've spoken to directly understands what a "clear explanation is" apparently lmfao.

Dude.

When you criticize that the fog doesn't make sense in ER and talk about Demons, where the fog was a very specific thing...

...ofc it makes sense to mention that in their other games FS likes to hide the setting behind a fog, too.

"Well it's like being outside of divinity"

I literally did not say that. That is not my quote.

And yeah, what is the big difference between that first demon you encounter in Demons, which is supposed to kill you, after which you get caught in the Nexus, and the Grafted Scion, which is put there by Godrick to kill newly arrived Tarnished?

Because if you go back and read what I said to Dr Acula, it's to concede that Elden Ring does get asinine about its own details. That it gets in its own way by simultaneously being the most unsubtle, unambiguous as these games have ever been about certain details, even having a world with active characters... and also still wanting found footage.

[Dr.Acula]

Originally posted by Persona Au Gratin:

You literally asked "What's the difference between Grafted Scion and Demon's Souls opening?" Instead of just asking what that is, you're explaining stuff that is pretty easy to understand, just like Dr Acula. We're not talking about the genre stuff, we're talking about the very specifics of the games in question. "Well it's like being outside of divinity." So you have no idea what "Crossing the Fog" is in Demon's Souls and what the various heroes who went into Boletaria were doing? What King Allant did?

"Uh it's just like King's Field!" You guys are truly bad at this. I described the tutorial area of Demon's Souls implying it was better than Elden Ring and none of you seem to be able to grasp just why that is while trying to vomit out the same tired explanation anyone who is interested in these games' plot would know.

King Allant sought Soul Power and it unleashed a flood of demons onto Boletaria, which was covered in FOG. To cross the fog in Demon's Souls means to enter Boletaria from the outside. The tutorial area is the player character ENTERING BOLETARIA. At the end, you face a monster, one Dragon or THE Dragon God, that you cannot kill and you die, trapping you in the Nexus. It's probably the clearest this kind of tutorial has ever been. Dark Souls is pretty clear, Dark Souls 2 is pretty clear, Dark Souls 3... etc, but as far as "You have to be stupid to misunderstand this." That is why I mentioned it.

Dr Acula, you're getting criticized by me because, just like above, YOU don't know either. You're all trying to explain something when it comes to just knowing what the actual game is about, you guys fall back to these dumb genre platitudes. You have no idea what you're talking about and you're trying to say these games are "hard/easy to understand." No one I've spoken to directly understands what a "clear explanation is" apparently lmfao.

I've explained to you the premise of the game meaning where and as what you start in Demon Souls 1. What the DS1 opening scene shows and what you see within the first hour is that you are soul within that asylum and to escape you have to defeat that demon standing at the exit. Whatever else that game story may be about does not matter at that point. It's what you first see that provides you with context an who and what you are or it doesn't.

The only thing Elden Ring does is tell me I'm "a tarnished of no renown". What that chapel of the beginning is? I have no idea. What is that grafted scion? I don't know. It clearly doesn't keep me there because when I die I still go to the next area.

The premise and context of the Elden Ring start are a complete mess. This is where I see the difference between DS1 and ER.

When it comes to the writing of DS1 I couldn't tell you what the whole game was about because I never liked that game and quit it somwhere within the sewers. The reason for it was simple - the combat and general gameplay was not fun.

[vamirez]

Originally posted by Persona Au Gratin:

Originally posted by vamirez:

Dude.

When you criticize that the fog doesn't make sense in ER and talk about Demons, where the fog was a very specific thing...

...ofc it makes sense to mention that in their other games FS likes to hide the setting behind a fog, too.

"Well it's like being outside of divinity"

I literally did not say that. That is not my quote.

And yeah, what is the big difference between that first demon you encounter in Demons, which is supposed to kill you, after which you get caught in the Nexus, and the Grafted Scion, which is put there by Godrick to kill newly arrived Tarnished?

Because if you go back and read what I said to Dr Acula, it's to concede that Elden Ring does get asinine about its own details. That it gets in its own way by simultaneously being the most unsubtle, unambiguous as these games have ever been about certain details, even having a world with active characters... and also still wanting found footage.

It's not very... productive... to argue with that... other friendly forum guy.

I was just wondering because you said you were "really frustrated with the opening alone" and asked "what beyond the fog is supposed to be" - directly drawing the comparison to Demons as if it was supposed to be the exact same fog. And then stated that the grafted scion is the worst opening in FS history (paraphrased, not exact quotes). To which my answer made a lot of sense. Why were you immediately frustrated? Why directly get caught up on the Lands Between being found "behind the mists"? What is the difference to the other usual first mobs placed to kill the player and kick off the game? Those are/were my inner questions.

[vamirez]

Originally posted by Dr.Acula:

Originally posted by Persona Au Gratin:

You literally asked "What's the difference between Grafted Scion and Demon's Souls opening?" Instead of just asking what that is, you're explaining stuff that is pretty easy to understand, just like Dr Acula. We're not talking about the genre stuff, we're talking about the very specifics of the games in question. "Well it's like being outside of divinity." So you have no idea what "Crossing the Fog" is in Demon's Souls and what the various heroes who went into Boletaria were doing? What King Allant did?

"Uh it's just like King's Field!" You guys are truly bad at this. I described the tutorial area of Demon's Souls implying it was better than Elden Ring and none of you seem to be able to grasp just why that is while trying to vomit out the same tired explanation anyone who is interested in these games' plot would know.

King Allant sought Soul Power and it unleashed a flood of demons onto Boletaria, which was covered in FOG. To cross the fog in Demon's Souls means to enter Boletaria from the outside. The tutorial area is the player character ENTERING BOLETARIA. At the end, you face a monster, one Dragon or THE Dragon God, that you cannot kill and you die, trapping you in the Nexus. It's probably the clearest this kind of tutorial has ever been. Dark Souls is pretty clear, Dark Souls 2 is pretty clear, Dark Souls 3... etc, but as far as "You have to be stupid to misunderstand this." That is why I mentioned it.

Dr Acula, you're getting criticized by me because, just like above, YOU don't know either. You're all trying to explain something when it comes to just knowing what the actual game is about, you guys fall back to these dumb genre platitudes. You have no idea what you're talking about and you're trying to say these games are "hard/easy to understand." No one I've spoken to directly understands what a "clear explanation is" apparently lmfao.

I've explained to you the premise of the game meaning where and as what you start in Demon Souls 1. What the DS1 opening scene shows and what you see within the first hour is that you are soul within that asylum and to escape you have to defeat that demon standing at the exit. Whatever else that game story may be about does not matter at that point. It's what you first see that provides you with context an who and what you are or it doesn't.

The only thing Elden Ring does is tell me I'm "a tarnished of no renown". What that chapel of the beginning is? I have no idea. What is that grafted scion? I don't know. It clearly doesn't keep me there because when I die I still go to the next area.

The premise and context of the Elden Ring start are a complete mess. This is where I see the difference between DS1 and ER.

When it comes to the writing of DS1 I couldn't tell you what the whole game was about because I never liked that game and quit it somwhere within the sewers. The reason for it was simple - the combat and general gameplay was not fun.

Well, you can find out all of that during the game. You are supposed to not know everything setting out.

You quit Dark Souls 1?!? You never fail to shock me anew, Dr....

[Persona Au Gratin]

Originally posted by Dr.Acula:

I've explained to you the premise of the game meaning

No, you're basically BSing about plot. You don't understand what "meaning" is when you're just trying to get a handle on events of specific games and you use this very non-specific, genre stuff while simultaneously showing that you don't understand the least subtle, most specific opening in Souls history. You're not offering some kind of thesis or interpretation of the game, you're WHINING about plot.

"Well it's like uhhh being outside of the divine land." You're whining about something, narrative, that you don't understand. Wasn't hard to get. I just laid out a simple test and you're blathering on while disqualifying yourself, that's just not worth anyone engaging. This isn't a discussion now, I'm just airing out that you're full of ♥♥♥♥ lmfao. Thanks, have a nice day. I will now respond to people other than you and go about my business.

You "explained" nothing, because you don't understand what you're complaining about.

[Dr.Acula]

Originally posted by Persona Au Gratin:

No, you're basically BSing about plot. You don't understand what "meaning" is when you're just trying to get a handle on events of specific games and you use this very non-specific, genre stuff while simultaneously showing that you don't understand the least subtle, most specific opening in Souls history. You're not offering some kind of thesis or interpretation of the game, you're WHINING about plot.

"Well it's like uhhh being outside of the divine land." You're whining about something, narrative, that you don't understand. Wasn't hard to get. I just laid out a simple test and you're blathering on while disqualifying yourself, that's just not worth anyone engaging. This isn't a discussion now, I'm just airing out that you're full of ♥♥♥♥ lmfao. Thanks, have a nice day. I will now respond to people other than you and go about my business.

You "explained" nothing, because you don't understand what you're complaining about.

I've explained my own point very well. You're just acting like an entitled little kid and personally I'm done with you. Welcome to my block list.

Originally posted by vamirez:

You quit Dark Souls 1?!? You never fail to shock me anew, Dr....

Quitting a game I didn't enjoy? Wow what a shocking concept. Who knows maybe other people will catch on to that.

Btw. I played through Dark Souls 2 and 3. I finished them and I think they are quite good in terms of gameplay. The writing is still trash but at least the games are mostly fun to play. And yes DS2 is far superior in terms of gameplay compared to DS1.

[hemorrhage911]

Originally posted by Persona Au Gratin:

Originally posted by Dr.Acula:

The opening cinematic of Elden Ring is a whole lot of babble without any context.

"Arise ye tarnished" can mean anything. Was Gideon dead and resurected? Within the game it doesn't appear that way as he (based through dialogue) had been taking care of Nephali Loux for a long time. Gold Mask? There no context to or proper information about anything that dude does.

Interactions with Fia in the game also do not relate to anything said in the opening cut scene of the game.

Everything within the opening cut scene is just cryptic for the sake of being cryptic and it doesn't even set my own character up in any meaningful way. I'm just a "tarnished of no renown". There's no actual goal to anything I'm doing. The only thing driving me is "kill boss and get weapon"

You might think I'm trolling but I'm 100% serious about this. The writing in Elden Ring is atrociously bad. Oh and when I discussed this with friends I even got laughed at for even caring about the story in the first place. "You don't play Elden Ring for the story. It's about killing bosses" That is literally the response I get...

I really got frustrated with just the opening alone. Like what the ♥♥♥♥ is “beyond the fog?” The impression I have now is like “are we talking about the Shadow Lands????” In Demon’s Souls that has very specific meaning. You’re from outside the infected zone of Boletaria. Even the opening fight and area with Grafted Scion is the WORST opening I’ve ever seen in this type of game. But I hope you know that “found footage” is a type of narrative/story lol.

....beyond the fog simply means outside the lands between. It's not even that cryptic here.

[AkumaOuja]

"The land has fallen into chaos due to corruption, losing the mandate of heaven, people getting ambitious and overthrowing the land, pick a dozen other options, and even the various warlords are too in despair and disarray to even hope that one of them will win and fix things, enter a wandering warrior driven to quell the fighting by carving out the wicked and any rival claimants to declare his right to rule and bring back stability and hope to things" is a pretty classic heroic parable I'm not sure what else to say OP except that you're probably ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ retarded.

[Sabaithal]

Fog seems to symbolize "the unknown" pretty much universally in FROM souls games come to think of it. Demon's souls it has a specific meaning relating to the demons themselves, but its still in effect an information blackout. In Dark Souls it essentially is the equivalent of "uncharted lands" same as Elden Ring.

[vamirez]

Originally posted by Sabaithal:

Fog seems to symbolize "the unknown" pretty much universally in FROM souls games come to think of it. Demon's souls it has a specific meaning relating to the demons themselves, but its still in effect an information blackout. In Dark Souls it essentially is the equivalent of "uncharted lands" same as Elden Ring.

When I said the same thing above, the guy exploded in my face ;) Just saying...

[Louis Cypher]

hahahahah 9 pages already and no clown awards. OPis the greatest tloser ever