Just Beat Messmer

[RealVanillaSmooth]

Rellana was still harder

[zmanbuilder]

Originally posted by RealVanillaSmooth:

Rellana was still harder

Hard to beat her with just one hand, especially when she brings her twin moons down on your face.

[GermanyMan]

It really depends on your playstyle - back at DS3 i had severe problems with a very easy boss. Other players struggled with boss i found to be easy to medium.

Praise the Sun

[Lynfinity]

Originally posted by RealVanillaSmooth:

Rellana was still harder

But does it matter when Messmer is more fun?

[RealVanillaSmooth]

Originally posted by Lynfinity:

Originally posted by RealVanillaSmooth:

Rellana was still harder

But does it matter when Messmer is more fun?

Tbh I think they're almost equally fun to play against. The main thing with Rellana is that unlike Messmer, I was constantly running out of stamina depending on how aggressive she chose to be and had to switch from using colossal weapons to greatswords.

Messmer I feel actually gave way more chances to punish and his reads are more conventional with some exception. The one where he dashes at you and does the cleave had me STUMPED on how to dodge since it seemed like dodging at all got you hit by the fire plume, but everything else really seemed like an Orphan of Kos/ Malenia strats.

Rellana just seems to push your stamina to the limit and makes spellcasting impossible which invalidates way more builds.

Both visually beautiful fights though, both technical. They're really solid.

[Scorpix]

Messmer is better in terms of difficulty balance, design and lore. He is not spamming attacks and long combos like insane and after some training a was able to avoid most of his attack, while Rellana just can go into very long combo and not give you a single chance to attack or her hitbox somehow will still catch you and you will receive damage.

[Sgt. Flaw]

Rellana became easy once I learned to roll back once then towards twice in her chain combo attack...

the rest of her attacks where pretty easy


'cept having to know that you could simply walk out of the way of the first part of her arc combo in phase 2...kinda BS

[Lynfinity]

Originally posted by RealVanillaSmooth:

Messmer I feel actually gave way more chances to punish and his reads are more conventional with some exception.

That's exactly why I find him way more fun. Rellana, as cool-looking as she is, kinda not my cup'o'tea with how aggressive she is. It would be fine if she hit like a wet noodle regardless of what NG+ cycle you're on, but I personally tackled the DLC on a NG+7 character, and her combos just don't go well with insane damage output.

Messmer still hits just as hard, but he has clear telegraphs, for the most part, and reliable opportunities to whiff punish him. Felt like a much more balanced fight overall.

[echo_ML]

Originally posted by Lynfinity:

Originally posted by RealVanillaSmooth:

Messmer I feel actually gave way more chances to punish and his reads are more conventional with some exception.

That's exactly why I find him way more fun. Rellana, as cool-looking as she is, kinda not my cup'o'tea with how aggressive she is. It would be fine if she hit like a wet noodle regardless of what NG+ cycle you're on, but I personally tackled the DLC on a NG+7 character, and her combos just don't go well with insane damage output.

Messmer still hits just as hard, but he has clear telegraphs, for the most part, and reliable opportunities to whiff punish him. Felt like a much more balanced fight overall.

Rellana is super fun with deflect tear, gives you much more safety and punish windows

[RealVanillaSmooth]

Originally posted by Sgt. Flaw:

Rellana became easy once I learned to roll back once then towards twice in her chain combo attack...

the rest of her attacks where pretty easy


'cept having to know that you could simply walk out of the way of the first part of her arc combo in phase 2...kinda BS

Rellana for the most part has easy-ish attacks to avoid, the difficulty really is if you have enough stamina to endure the spam and if you have enough stamina to even punish her. Fighting Rellana takes MUCH longer than Messmer who I killed before my Vow buff ended. Messmer has more delayed attacks and his grab is really ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ because unless you identify it immediately and dodge that's mistimed means that 85% of your health is gone but Messmer's phase 2 is laughably easy and you actually do more damage since his snake form takes damage and if you attack the head both his body and his snake take damage. It's basically just Rykard 2.0 which is nice because his phase 1 moveset is more punishing. The difficulty gets diluted in phase 2 Messmer whereas phase 2 Rellana actually becomes more ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

Their damage is pretty comparable but Rellana is way more aggressive and tests your stats, she input reads way more, and she has more robust retaliation mechanics. I don't know what the health pools are like but 5000 damage on Messmer is a noticeable chunk of his health whereas that same damage on Rellana felt like I barely dented her.

That and I could crit Messmer reliably. I don't know if I crit Rellana more than twice in all my attempts. I think there's a good argument that Messmer is MUCH more well-designed for balance purposes but ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ they both look super cool, have a very flash moveset, and their arenas drip with atmosphere.

[Lynfinity]

Originally posted by echo_ML:

Originally posted by Lynfinity:

That's exactly why I find him way more fun. Rellana, as cool-looking as she is, kinda not my cup'o'tea with how aggressive she is. It would be fine if she hit like a wet noodle regardless of what NG+ cycle you're on, but I personally tackled the DLC on a NG+7 character, and her combos just don't go well with insane damage output.

Messmer still hits just as hard, but he has clear telegraphs, for the most part, and reliable opportunities to whiff punish him. Felt like a much more balanced fight overall.

Rellana is super fun with deflect tear, gives you much more safety and punish windows

Guess I better put my MGR/LoP skills to use then, when next we meet.

[echo_ML]

Originally posted by Lynfinity:

Originally posted by echo_ML:

Rellana is super fun with deflect tear, gives you much more safety and punish windows

Guess I better put my MGR/LoP skills to use then, when next we meet.

If i may make another suggestion, with Milady, curved sword talisman, thorny cracked tear, and both consecutive damage talismans the damage you can get off guard counter reaches ~3000-4000 with +3 scadu. It's nuts.

[Sgt. Flaw]

Originally posted by RealVanillaSmooth:

Originally posted by Sgt. Flaw:

Rellana became easy once I learned to roll back once then towards twice in her chain combo attack...

the rest of her attacks where pretty easy


'cept having to know that you could simply walk out of the way of the first part of her arc combo in phase 2...kinda BS

Rellana for the most part has easy-ish attacks to avoid, the difficulty really is if you have enough stamina to endure the spam and if you have enough stamina to even punish her. Fighting Rellana takes MUCH longer than Messmer who I killed before my Vow buff ended. Messmer has more delayed attacks and his grab is really ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ because unless you identify it immediately and dodge that's mistimed means that 85% of your health is gone but Messmer's phase 2 is laughably easy and you actually do more damage since his snake form takes damage and if you attack the head both his body and his snake take damage. It's basically just Rykard 2.0 which is nice because his phase 1 moveset is more punishing. The difficulty gets diluted in phase 2 Messmer whereas phase 2 Rellana actually becomes more ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

Their damage is pretty comparable but Rellana is way more aggressive and tests your stats, she input reads way more, and she has more robust retaliation mechanics. I don't know what the health pools are like but 5000 damage on Messmer is a noticeable chunk of his health whereas that same damage on Rellana felt like I barely dented her.

That and I could crit Messmer reliably. I don't know if I crit Rellana more than twice in all my attempts. I think there's a good argument that Messmer is MUCH more well-designed for balance purposes but ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ they both look super cool, have a very flash moveset, and their arenas drip with atmosphere.

I guess it depends on your build I was using 2 omen cleavers and stunned TF outta her...I'd get her once..then once again while she was transferring to phase 2...

My roll tactic was more useful for setting up to jump her tho...most people suggested only rolling toward her but that would leave me way to close for a jump attack

I thought she was cool AF tho..her long chain combos were the only ambiguous of her moves but she never finished with one blade...I always capitalized if she finished with two...


the rest were simply press jump when the moon hit the floor ect...plus it was easy to bait her combo arc move and punish as long as you mitigated toward her

I haven't fought mess yet as I've been quite busy..but I'm gonna take out that Hippo to get him tf outta the way...already building a strat and squeezing in a few fights to stay fresh for when I actually get some solid me time

I hope to stay with 2 blessings.....scared of Radahn tho lol..he seems to actually be a load of ♥♥♥♥

[Lynfinity]

Originally posted by echo_ML:

Originally posted by Lynfinity:

Guess I better put my MGR/LoP skills to use then, when next we meet.

If i may make another suggestion, with Milady, curved sword talisman, thorny cracked tear, and both consecutive damage talismans the damage you can get off guard counter reaches ~3000-4000 with +3 scadu. It's nuts.

Milady is a permanent part of my loadout since the moment I found it, so that's one down. I'm at Level 17 right now, so looking forward to see them guard counter numbers kek.

P.S.: Flame Art affinity with a "Flame Spear" AoW, by the way. Very fun to use, highly recommend to try it out (if your stat allocation allows it, of course).

[RealVanillaSmooth]

Originally posted by Sgt. Flaw:

Originally posted by RealVanillaSmooth:

Rellana for the most part has easy-ish attacks to avoid, the difficulty really is if you have enough stamina to endure the spam and if you have enough stamina to even punish her. Fighting Rellana takes MUCH longer than Messmer who I killed before my Vow buff ended. Messmer has more delayed attacks and his grab is really ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ because unless you identify it immediately and dodge that's mistimed means that 85% of your health is gone but Messmer's phase 2 is laughably easy and you actually do more damage since his snake form takes damage and if you attack the head both his body and his snake take damage. It's basically just Rykard 2.0 which is nice because his phase 1 moveset is more punishing. The difficulty gets diluted in phase 2 Messmer whereas phase 2 Rellana actually becomes more ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

Their damage is pretty comparable but Rellana is way more aggressive and tests your stats, she input reads way more, and she has more robust retaliation mechanics. I don't know what the health pools are like but 5000 damage on Messmer is a noticeable chunk of his health whereas that same damage on Rellana felt like I barely dented her.

That and I could crit Messmer reliably. I don't know if I crit Rellana more than twice in all my attempts. I think there's a good argument that Messmer is MUCH more well-designed for balance purposes but ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ they both look super cool, have a very flash moveset, and their arenas drip with atmosphere.

I guess it depends on your build I was using 2 omen cleavers and stunned TF outta her...I'd get her once..then once again while she was transferring to phase 2...

My roll tactic was more useful for setting up to jump her tho...most people suggested only rolling toward her but that would leave me way to close for a jump attack

I thought she was cool AF tho..her long chain combos were the only ambiguous of her moves but she never finished with one blade...I always capitalized if she finished with two...


the rest were simply press jump when the moon hit the floor ect...plus it was easy to bait her combo arc move and punish as long as you mitigated toward her

I haven't fought mess yet as I've been quite busy..but I'm gonna take out that Hippo to get him tf outta the way...already building a strat and squeezing in a few fights to stay fresh for when I actually get some solid me time

I hope to stay with 2 blessings.....scared of Radahn tho lol..he seems to actually be a load of ♥♥♥♥

I mean by the end of both fights I ended with a good amount of my flasks. All 7 against Messmer, I think I ended with 4 or 3 against Rellana.

But yeah when she does combo enders using both of her blades that's when she won't retaliate. Her Carion Phalanx will retaliate upon any attempted spellcast and she does have guaranteed damage in certain scenarios (as if you don't have enough i-frames to cover the overlap of phalanx + some of her moves), but for the most part she's beatable with just solid mechanics.

They're both very testy though. Every other boss in the DLC (NG+3) I've beat in the first 3 attempts. Hippo was third try (I couldn't find the timing on dodging his grab), lion head boss was first try, I haven't died from any of the dragon bosses yet including Bayle who is just like every other dragon boss with bigger stats.

Lightning death knight admittedly did ♥♥♥♥ me up pretty good. I think I had an embarrassing number of attempts against him LMAO. Putrescent Knight also kind of rocked me a good 5 or 6 times before I got him. Boss is easy enough but as soon as he dismounts his horse I felt like I was dodging more than against Rellana and my stamina couldn't keep up (all my flasks were used during his dismounts). Also, his combo enders leave him very far away from you and I felt like it was very difficult to punish him with melee, so I took my 60 faith ass and used holy magic and got the job done first try doing that.