Land of Shadow Location

[Fuzzy]

I know it's meant to be pretty ambiguous, but for real, it has to be somewhere. Somehow magically below the Lands Between? Another island somewhere off its coast? In an alternate dimension or plane of reality? I'm a big fan of the lore, but not an expert myself, so if anyone smarter than me could give me closure on how the Land of Shadow works, both where it is and how it came to be, I'd appreciate it

[stormtrooper2022]

From what I understood it's supposed to be right there in the middle of the map, just invisible/inaccessible due to Marika's intervention. The supressing pillar outright says that's the center of the Lands Between.

So Scadu Altus was a part of the Altus plateau, the graves are near Limgrave, the Jagged Peak was close if not right below Farum Azula, etc.

Edit - you can orient yourself by the Scadutree, which is the shadow of the Erdtree, so the trees should be exactly in the same place. The maps do not match perfectly, mind (likely due to gameplay purposes) but it's close.

[Fuzzy]

Originally posted by stormtrooper2022:

From what I understood it's supposed to be right there in the middle of the map, just invisible/inaccessible due to Marika's intervention. The supressing pillar outright says that's the center of the Lands Between.

So Scadu Altus was a part of the Altus plateau, the graves are near Limgrave, the Jagged Peak was close if not right below Farum Azula, etc.

Edit - you can orient yourself by the Scadutree, which is the shadow of the Erdtree, so the trees should be exactly in the same place. The maps do not match perfectly, mind (likely due to gameplay purposes) but it's close.

That is actually unbelievably cool

[Fuzzy]

Also, I just wanna say, exploring the Land of Shadow really made me hate Marika and the Golden Order even more

Like, the place was completely laid to ruin by her influence

[stormtrooper2022]

^It's the other way around. The horned people were tyrants that used to stick Marika's people into jars. She was getting her sweet revenge on them after ascending to godhood.

Originally posted by Fuzzy:

That is actually unbelievably cool

Yeah, it is.

I suppose the things that are powerful enough can 'pierce through' to the lands of shadow - so you can see the Erdtree (as a shadow), the sun, the outer moon god is still there, a few star fragments and fallingstar beasts can reach the surface through the primeval current, and so on.

The only other way appears to be through some form of death or another, since the pillar says the dead can end up there.

[ssj grumpig]

Headcanon: I think the world is in different "layers" sort of like realms of Yggdrasil and it was either sunk beneath the ocean to another "layer" of reality via shattering those stones that say they hold the land together, or the Lands Between were raised up into a new "layer"

[paincanbefun]

Originally posted by ssj grumpig:

Headcanon: I think the world is in different "layers" sort of like realms of Yggdrasil and it was either sunk beneath the ocean to another "layer" of reality via shattering those stones that say they hold the land together, or the Lands Between were raised up into a new "layer"

yeah, i think it's supposed to be a different plane of existence, "below" the world in a higher dimensional sense, but overlapping it in the normal 3d sense. the trees are likely co-centric

[Lynfinity]

Originally posted by Fuzzy:

Also, I just wanna say, exploring the Land of Shadow really made me hate Marika and the Golden Order even more

Like, the place was completely laid to ruin by her influence

Hornsent used to take people from the her hometown and stuff them inside the jars, because they believed that the flesh of these folks is the most "suitable for the task", so to speak. What you see is the aftermath of her path of vengeance once she obtained godhood.

This is also why Omen are seen as vile creatures by the Golden Order, most likely - Marika hates everything imperfect after those events.

Taken from the description of the "Minor Erdtree" incantation:

"Secret incantation of Queen Marika. Only the kindness of gold, without Order. Creates a small, illusory Erdtree that continuously restores the HP of nearby allies.

Marika bathed the village of her home in gold, knowing full well that there was no one to heal."

Marika's vengeful wrath may have gone too far, but she's as much of a victim as everyone else.

[paincanbefun]

Originally posted by Lynfinity:

Marika's vengeful wrath may have gone too far, but she's as much of a victim as everyone else.

when people gain power, i think they need to stop acting like victims

that's how you cycle violence onto new victims

[Lynfinity]

Originally posted by paincanbefun:

Originally posted by Lynfinity:

Marika's vengeful wrath may have gone too far, but she's as much of a victim as everyone else.

when people gain power, i think they need to stop acting like victims

that's how you cycle violence onto new victims

That's how it works. Power to pretty much erase those who wronged you intoxicates. A lot.

I'm not saying Marika did nothing wrong. But all of this did stem from a traumatic experience of her own. No one is truly innocent in this world.

[stormtrooper2022]

Originally posted by Aerieanei:

If you look at the old Ending for the DLC that was cut you'll see that Miquella removes the drapery from the Scadutree allowing it to exist within the world again and prevent it from being masked. Miyazaki also says in the interview the Scadutree Drapery is what's keeping the Land of Shadow from being seen.

Yeah, and I think "shadowed land" would have been a better name to convey exactly what's going on, but since in Japanese the two terms would have been the same, the translation played it safe.

[ssj grumpig]

Originally posted by Lynfinity:

Originally posted by paincanbefun:

when people gain power, i think they need to stop acting like victims

that's how you cycle violence onto new victims

That's how it works. Power to pretty much erase those who wronged you intoxicates. A lot.

I'm not saying Marika did nothing wrong. But all of this did stem from a traumatic experience of her own. No one is truly innocent in this world.

There were pretty strong aenima/aenimus themes going on with Marika/Radagon and Miquella/St. Trina, the shadow stuff fits pretty well with the self+ego+shadow Jungian thing thematically

[paincanbefun]

Originally posted by Lynfinity:

No one is truly innocent in this world.

uh. if someone is a victim, they are innocent by definition, in context at least

this is kind of over-deep for a steam forum, but if you compare child abuse, then the moment the person grows up and has their own kid, if they act out their victimisation instead of getting their head right, it doesn't matter whether they *feel* helpless and scared, it matters that they are abusing a new child who really is innocent

so therefore, for the abuser to say "but i was a victim too" is really not persuasive. their power is what matters, not their earlier trauma. genocide being a bigger deal than child abuse, imo