Are mages supposed to be this weak?

[Gustavo Fring]

Just started a new character and decided to try a mage and he's MUCH MUCH weaker than standart STR build, like I would easily stunlock most of the encounters and str build has much more survivability and damage

[MULTIPASS]

Almost all spells deal stance damage, it's just pretty low compared to weapon attacks which is fair. Most enemies will just die before breaking.

[vamirez]

Originally posted by Loot filter Blizz?:

Originally posted by vamirez:

Whatever bro...

Its really that point, that you can deliver the same amount of damage at a distance, that makes it so op. But i believe what you lack that way, is to deliver poise damage (with spells) to knock bosses out. I think thats the trade here with a mage, you dont really get the opportunity to make those crit hits (with spells only) ;-)

I at least cant remember to get one as mage (with spells only), maybe with those special meele spells its possible, but i didnt used them often :-/

That safe distance shooting is not guaranteed in many situations, tho, and you can only do it a limited number of times. All me and others are correctly pointing out is that it's not the "auto win mode" ppl like to say it is. It's very strong later on, sure. But so are a range of other builds.

[Grim@FU_BARRACUDA]

Originally posted by MULTIPASS:

Almost all spells deal stance damage, it's just pretty low compared to weapon attacks which is fair. Most enemies will just die before breaking.

Yeah makes kinda sense from my expierence, but ...

there is this spectral hammer (dont know the name) it does more poise damage or not?

Originally posted by vamirez:

Originally posted by Loot filter Blizz?:

Its really that point, that you can deliver the same amount of damage at a distance, that makes it so op. But i believe what you lack that way, is to deliver poise damage (with spells) to knock bosses out. I think thats the trade here with a mage, you dont really get the opportunity to make those crit hits (with spells only) ;-)

I at least cant remember to get one as mage (with spells only), maybe with those special meele spells its possible, but i didnt used them often :-/

That safe distance shooting is not guaranteed in many situations, tho, and you can only do it a limited number of times. All me and others are correctly pointing out is that it's not the "auto win mode" ppl like to say it is. It's very strong later on, sure. But so are a range of other builds.

All i can say from my expierence is, the meele character was challenging to play and with the mage the challenge was gone ;-)

[vamirez]

Originally posted by Loot filter Blizz?:

Originally posted by MULTIPASS:

Almost all spells deal stance damage, it's just pretty low compared to weapon attacks which is fair. Most enemies will just die before breaking.

Yeah makes kinda sense from my expierence, but ...

there is this spectral hammer (dont know the name) it does more poise damage or not?

Originally posted by vamirez:

That safe distance shooting is not guaranteed in many situations, tho, and you can only do it a limited number of times. All me and others are correctly pointing out is that it's not the "auto win mode" ppl like to say it is. It's very strong later on, sure. But so are a range of other builds.

All i can say from my expierence is, the meele character was challenging to play and with the mage the challenge was gone ;-)

And for me it was exactly the other way around. But I'm not going around stating that melee is easy mode (even though me literally killing all the big monsters ppl usually hate for funsies may indicate something). It should be possible to talk about this without relying on personal anecdotes only. If you have just completed a run, you will be vastly better at the game than before. If you know the enemies and can avoid their attacks and melee them, being able to shoot them on top will just feel super easy. And if your flasks run out? No matter, just melee then. Or maybe you get hit so little they don't run out. Ha - magic, so easy! Do you get what I'm saying? In any case, OP was struggling, and they were wondering about it.

[Kalamir]

Originally posted by Gustavo Fring:

Just started a new character and decided to try a mage and he's MUCH MUCH weaker than standart STR build, like I would easily stunlock most of the encounters and str build has much more survivability and damage

The Secret to any good build is finding a weapon you like. Wich odds are, the Short Sword ain't it. I always recommend the Lazuli Glintstone Sword if you know how to get one early.
It's not the best, but it is easy to upgrade & strong early on.

A Noble's Slender Sword is a choice Infusion Straight Sword pick for a Mage, abysmal drop rate not whitstanding. Good Length, no stat investment needed.

If you want to Bully like a Good STR build, the Club (set to Magic or Cold) can be 2 hand from the start, or 1 Handed for 2 more STR. Club & it's linear upgrade, Stone Club, are the fastest Bonk in the Game & heavy's will stagger most Mobs.

Having 12 STR will allow you to wield most Great Swords, I have a soft spot for the Knight's Greatsword for it's 2-h move set. Leads well into the Dark Moon Great Sword & Helphen's Steeple, 2 top tier Int Weapons.

A starting Mage whit 1 STR point, using Radagon's Soreseal can Wield the easily acquired Troll Knight's Sword (Guaranteed Drop from the Troll in Caria Manor, can still drop from other Trolls wielding it). While it is probably the Weakest Colossal Sword, it's easy to upgrade & will carry you until you get one of the 2 upgrades, the Royal Greatsword & Starscourge Greatsword

[The Ultimate Despair]

Originally posted by An Irate Walrus:

If you're talking about the ability to stunlock in melee, yes. STR builds use heavy unga-bunga weapons, usually in 2H stance, so you're more or less hitting enemies with giant lumps of rock or metal.

Mages are designed to light ♥♥♥♥ up from a distance. Look at the stats: unga-bunga builds tend to be knuckle-draggers in the INT department, whereas casters fold up and cry if you show them a pull-up bar.

Different builds (and equipment) for different purposes.

idk. My mage build with a magic infused zwei and waves of darkness would like a word with you

[Guglhupf]

Originally posted by Gustavo Fring:

But there are so much bosses that close distance very fast and I use carian slicer because of this, so what's the point if I could just wield a normal weapon and deal more damage

You must not have seen a really strong mage build totally destroy the game then. Get Lusats staff, upgrade it to +10, get Shard Spiral sorcery, then kill ANY boss with it(even Malenia), and then tell me again that "normal weapons deal more damage". There's a reason spellusing is called easy mode by lots of people. Bc with the right setup it totally is. Btw, did I mention that some spells, Shard Spiral being one of them, stagger Malenia out of her Waterfowl Dance?

[Sabaithal]

Mages only really get powerful once you get good equipment and decently high INT that scales well. And they're still squishy regardless.

[bzo]

Carian regal scepter, terra magica, meteorite of astel, comet azur, adula's moonblade, rena's dark moon, glintstone pebble

So OP, literally 1 shots most bosses even after the nerfs

[Humpenstilzchen]

Going the night sorcery route is also insanely op since enemies don´t dodge those spells. It makes all those agile bosses which usually dodge your spells a joke.

With the staff of loss, night comet, an additional staff of loss for extra buff or jelly shield, golden vow, howl of shabriri, magic scorpion charm, graven school talisman, godfrey icon as well as magic shrouding cracked tear you can deal some ridiculous damage per comet and nothing even tries dodging it.

It´s honestly insane.

[Clail]

I think mage is OP, especially early game. It's definently going to be an adjustment of playstyles if you are use to stunlocking most enemies though.

[Grim@FU_BARRACUDA]

Originally posted by vamirez:

Originally posted by Loot filter Blizz?:

Yeah makes kinda sense from my expierence, but ...

there is this spectral hammer (dont know the name) it does more poise damage or not?



All i can say from my expierence is, the meele character was challenging to play and with the mage the challenge was gone ;-)

And for me it was exactly the other way around. But I'm not going around stating that melee is easy mode (even though me literally killing all the big monsters ppl usually hate for funsies may indicate something). It should be possible to talk about this without relying on personal anecdotes only. If you have just completed a run, you will be vastly better at the game than before. If you know the enemies and can avoid their attacks and melee them, being able to shoot them on top will just feel super easy. And if your flasks run out? No matter, just melee then. Or maybe you get hit so little they don't run out. Ha - magic, so easy! Do you get what I'm saying? In any case, OP was struggling, and they were wondering about it.

The point is that as a melee fighter you have to manage 2 distances. You have to go in and out to attack and dodge. As a mage, I just have to go out and, if necessary, let the opponent come while I shoot at him. This is a crucial difference that cannot be dismissed out of hand. This has nothing to do with taste or skill, it's a logical fact. But it's true that I often used night magic, as the user below says.

Originally posted by Humpenstilzchen:

Going the night sorcery route is also insanely op since enemies don´t dodge those spells. It makes all those agile bosses which usually dodge your spells a joke.

With the staff of loss, night comet, an additional staff of loss for extra buff or jelly shield, golden vow, howl of shabriri, magic scorpion charm, graven school talisman, godfrey icon as well as magic shrouding cracked tear you can deal some ridiculous damage per comet and nothing even tries dodging it.

It´s honestly insane.

Yeah thats true my main single target spell is a night spell ;-)

Originally posted by Clail:

I think mage is OP, especially early game. It's definently going to be an adjustment of playstyles if you are use to stunlocking most enemies though.

Thats what i also did with my 2H hammer build and the Lions Claw attack. Its was so hilarious to constantly knock Malenia to the ground that i felt bad about it xD

[Big poops ONLY]

Originally posted by Gustavo Fring:

Originally posted by An Irate Walrus:

If you're talking about the ability to stunlock in melee, yes. STR builds use heavy unga-bunga weapons, usually in 2H stance, so you're more or less hitting enemies with giant lumps of rock or metal.

Mages are designed to light ♥♥♥♥ up from a distance. Look at the stats: unga-bunga builds tend to be knuckle-draggers in the INT department, whereas casters fold up and cry if you show them a pull-up bar.

Different builds (and equipment) for different purposes.

But there are so much bosses that close distance very fast and I use carian slicer because of this, so what's the point if I could just wield a normal weapon and deal more damage

because carian slicer is really strong and gets a huge buff by just offhanding a staff. also you can do a fun thing where you cast terra magica and then do all of your slicing in there, it's of like a Helena knife fight. weirdly fun

[Evas a tahw!]

Originally posted by Clail:

I think mage is OP, especially early game. It's definently going to be an adjustment of playstyles if you are use to stunlocking most enemies though.

How can mage be OP early on? In order to become OP as a mage, you need to litterally play through the game. You cant just go and get your build proper early on, unless you're talking about smaller world enemies, but then everything just kills anything.

[vamirez]

Originally posted by Loot filter Blizz?:

Originally posted by vamirez:

And for me it was exactly the other way around. But I'm not going around stating that melee is easy mode (even though me literally killing all the big monsters ppl usually hate for funsies may indicate something). It should be possible to talk about this without relying on personal anecdotes only. If you have just completed a run, you will be vastly better at the game than before. If you know the enemies and can avoid their attacks and melee them, being able to shoot them on top will just feel super easy. And if your flasks run out? No matter, just melee then. Or maybe you get hit so little they don't run out. Ha - magic, so easy! Do you get what I'm saying? In any case, OP was struggling, and they were wondering about it.

The point is that as a melee fighter you have to manage 2 distances. You have to go in and out to attack and dodge. As a mage, I just have to go out and, if necessary, let the opponent come while I shoot at him. This is a crucial difference that cannot be dismissed out of hand. This has nothing to do with taste or skill, it's a logical fact. But it's true that I often used night magic, as the user below says.

So you run out of melee range completely? Because once they reach you, normally timimg to cast spells gets tricky. Also you don't begin the game with night sorceries.