DLC bosses suck, anyone miss old souls bosses?

[P1]

I'm talking about original Dark Souls. Bosses used to be just a big guy with big hammer and straight forward combat. Now these new bosses (talking about DLC) have ganky 1 million health, they are about 10 times your size but zoom around the arena like a ping-pong ball never running out of stamina, while unleashing anime style 50 hit combos followed by 20 aerial combos followed by five AoE attacks (all that one shot you by the way).

Boss battles now are about chasing some 50 ton guy around the arena who moves at the speed of light, getting one or two hits in slowly whittling down a ganky healthbar praying you don't get hit once else you'll be one shot. I'm not even complaining about the bosses being hard, it's just tedious and unfulfilling. I remember when I first played DS1 and finally beast ornstein and smough after many tries I felt fulfilled. Now after beating these ganky cheap anime bosses I just think "thank ♥♥♥♥ that's over".

It's like these fast paced bosses were made for a fast paced action game with a player character that can move around fast and dodge. Not a a clunky dark souls character that has an asthma attack after 5 seconds of running and can barely jump.

[TotesBreakfast]

By and large, I agree. I primarily play Soulsborne games for the level design, exploration, character building, atmosphere, and moment-to-moment gameplay. I used to play for the boss battles as well, but not so much anymore. I hope they go back to the drawing board with their boss design for whatever they do next. I still think SotE is one of the best expansions I've ever played and I loved 90% of my time with it, but they doubled down on the cheap boss design that reared its head in the original game.

[Lord Beerus]

Very much agreed, the newer fromsoft boss style just feels so not fun to play against
A good boss would have you go 'wow that was great i wanna do it again' but these new bosses just make you go 'thank god that's over'

[Sham!]

you guys are stuck in 2010
i get it, i am the same actually

but iunno, the future is now old man

[Werdna]

I miss when games with separate numbers in the title didn't reuse 90% of the previous entries. Radahn 2.0 is literally also a Gael 2.0 with those light waves after each-hit literally being retextured Gael's cloak.

[女無さん]

Ah yes, the old bosses where everyone's moving like they're underwater. No thanks, I'll take this any day of the week.

[GameSmashDash]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Inquisitor:

I miss when games with separate numbers in the title didn't reuse 90% of the previous entries. Radahn 2.0 is literally also a Gael 2.0 with those light waves after each-hit literally being retextured Gael's cloak.

Re-using assets is smart, as games get more expensive and time for development gets longer re-using assets is honestly the way to go.

Considering you're a fan of freiren you should understand the usage of re-using scenes and assets in general. And yes even the same animation studios will recycle/ re-use something form a similar setting but slightly change things to save on time and budget.

Hell as a pixel artist I re-use assets and slightly modify them to save time and money. If you want games to be more expensive then be my guess my good sir.

[BKo]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Cool Bug Facts!:

This isint a souls game. It's Elden Ring. Not DS4. Thats like saying "I hate the boss in Spiro the dragon! Anyone miss the boss fights in DS2!?"

Different games. Different mechanics. Different boss style.

Oh, it's supposed to not be fun like the older games, because it's different. I think I'll let you keep this one.

[Werdna]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von GameSmashDash:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Inquisitor:

I miss when games with separate numbers in the title didn't reuse 90% of the previous entries. Radahn 2.0 is literally also a Gael 2.0 with those light waves after each-hit literally being retextured Gael's cloak.

Re-using assets is smart, as games get more expensive and time for development gets longer re-using assets is honestly the way to go.

Considering you're a fan of freiren you should understand the usage of re-using scenes and assets in general. And yes even the same animation studios will recycle/ re-use something form a similar setting but slightly change things to save on time and budget.

Hell as a pixel artist I re-use assets and slightly modify them to save time and money. If you want games to be more expensive then be my guess my good sir.

I'm not a developer so only thing that matters to me is "How much" and "What am I getting in return"

[Jago Sevatarion]

No, I don't miss old crappier designs.
You can still go play that game if you miss it so much

[女無さん]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von BKo:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Cool Bug Facts!:

This isint a souls game. It's Elden Ring. Not DS4. Thats like saying "I hate the boss in Spiro the dragon! Anyone miss the boss fights in DS2!?"

Different games. Different mechanics. Different boss style.

Oh, it's supposed to not be fun like the older games, because it's different. I think I'll let you keep this one.

It is fun, though. You not having fun doesn't mean everyone else aren't enjoying the challenge. The design is not a "fundamental flaw" as some people try to portray it as; it's just an opinion.
I wish more people could understand this.

[Werdna]

DS2 bosses were honest with each hit being on point.
Elden Ring bosses all have seizures or SUDDEN influx of paralysis and delaying the attack infinitely. DS2 was definitely superior to Elden RIng and especially its DLCs to this Fraud-Reused-asset-fest.
It should've been Godwyn the Undead lord and not Fraudahn who jobbed to Malenia who never defeated anyone of value in lore. She's strongest because???? uhhhh some Head-canon youtuber ASMRer said so!!
Meanwhile Godwyn Chad: Killed dragons, tamed dragons, became god of death like Nagash.
Radahn should've stayed dead he's not even the strongest Caria let alone a demi-god.

[Karamell]

I resonate with your post, OP. I too, really wish we had bosses back in DS 1. Hell, in DS 3 some bosses were upgraded versions that really gave me the feeling I really was in Dark Souls but with improved, up to date mechanics.

Slaveknight Gael will forever, and always will be, From Software's magnum opus of a fight. He is tanky, he hits hard, but he is very well telegraphed. His combos have a lot of room to not just dodge roll or block, but to counter attack and get hits in-between.

His moves were easy to follow, but also required skill to follow up on if you don't want to overstay in the fight risking hits given it becomes an endurance test. I love that boss with all my heart, he symbolizes the perfect balance between difficult but fairness. Also his lore and his build up is what makes him really stand out.

... Going to Elden Ring's final boss, it's the complete opposite. Absolute anime-tier protagonist non stop combos, little to no breathing room, major hit boxes, and the phase 2 is so insane with much going on you can't even really understand what to do most of the fight plus you'll likely get 1-2 shot before you even comprehend said fight. Worst part, is the story / lore involving the final boss of the Elden Ring DLC feels like a fan fic, really disappointing.

I want challenges that are fun. I want to get to fight showing off my timing and skill. I want to try ashes of war, my ability to understand when to trade or not, and have a build I want to run without feeling like I resorted to cheesing just to SURVIVE the fight.

From Software has double downed on these fights to make them more 'flashy' and epic, but that doesn't mean good game design. Mesmer was a good balance despite a little overtuned but he's fine otherwise. Many other bosses except 1-2, are so overtuned and can spam combos with no room to work around but do the dodge-fest waiting game, it becomes super tedious. Not too difficult, just tedious.

[NONAME]

Back then Dark Souls was a metroidvania about lore, exploration and jolly cooperation. The difficulty wasn't much higher than in Resident Evil games.
At around Bloodborne time From decided to start making games for masochists, whose only purpose is to kill you as often as possible.

[Werdna]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von NONAME:

Back then Dark Souls was a metroidvania about lore and exploration. The difficulty wasn't much higher than in Resident Evil games.
At around Bloodborne time From decided to start making games for masochists, whose only purpose is to kill you as often as possible.

I still remember Sony cultist claiming that 24fps(on a good day) slideshow was From's best game. If someone says a Sony exclusive or Sony-Studio-made game is a "Best" they're paid shill until explicitly proven otherwise.

[EF_Neo1st]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Inquisitor:

DS2 bosses were honest with each hit being on point.
Elden Ring bosses all have seizures or SUDDEN influx of paralysis and delaying the attack infinitely. DS2 was definitely superior to Elden RIng and especially its DLCs to this Fraud-Reused-asset-fest.
It should've been Godwyn the Undead lord and not Fraudahn who jobbed to Malenia who never defeated anyone of value in lore. She's strongest because???? uhhhh some Head-canon youtuber ASMRer said so!!
Meanwhile Godwyn Chad: Killed dragons, tamed dragons, became god of death like Nagash.
Radahn should've stayed dead he's not even the strongest Caria let alone a demi-god.

DS2 bosses were crap at best (at least base game), just 20% of it are "ok to slightly good" but 80% is just reskinned normal enemy with higher HP bar what is crap, also there are so many openings at DS2 bosses it is almost impossible to see it as a roadblock wall with so many large holes.
DS2 is the weakest Souls and souls-like game ever made and I am including Lords of the Falllen (the first one) and Hellpoint to it because these 2 are not great and for the most part are just "acceptable" (ok-ish) but they are consistent at it, DS2 bosses range from "meh-ish" to "why tf it is called a boss?"... people say DS2 SotFS DLC makes it good, I never bothered to reach there to check and I dont care if "the real DS2 starts there", not my fault half the game is halfassed poor excuses of bossfights with 80% of its areas ranging from "bad" to "halfassed poor excuses of areas design" and the same 80% is full of crap enemies spammed all ove the place and even that dont pose a danger being more of a faster free farming when that happen.