Scadutree Fragments is trash game design

[Dr. Ademar de Barros]

What are you doing Fromsoftware? Mandatory collectibles, seriously? This is what you came up with to balance player power versus enemy power?

[Taddy Mason]

Originally posted by CourtesyFlush09:

Originally posted by Taddy Mason:

then why did they effectively do just that with the scadutree fragment system and even go so far as to market it as the way to adjust difficulty in the DLC?

That same argument could be said for the base game and the summoning system, exploring the map to level up after getting your ass kicked by a boss, finding Golden Seeds, etc.

That's the closest thing you'll ever get to a difficulty slider in these games and from Miyazaki.

none of those things have any impact on you in the DLC though. the only thing that helps you get stronger or find some new way to overcome whatever challenge you're facing in it is the scadutree fragments. whereas at least in the base game, you could find some new weapon, armor, or spell or other item to help you with whatever is challenging you. if all that failed, you could try leveling up some more. that's all been stripped out in the DLC and the only method of character progression now is finding more scadutree fragments. we went from several options for how to tackle a situation to just one. it's stupid and a step backwards for the game.

[Shadowlet]

Originally posted by Taddy Mason:

Originally posted by CourtesyFlush09:

That same argument could be said for the base game and the summoning system, exploring the map to level up after getting your ass kicked by a boss, finding Golden Seeds, etc.

That's the closest thing you'll ever get to a difficulty slider in these games and from Miyazaki.

none of those things have any impact on you in the DLC though. the only thing that helps you get stronger or find some new way to overcome whatever challenge you're facing in it is the scadutree fragments. whereas at least in the base game, you could find some new weapon, armor, or spell or other item to help you with whatever is challenging you.

Wrong. Weapon level was absolutely mandatory to have a fighting chance in zones outside of Limgrave., just like the DLC.

[Taddy Mason]

Originally posted by Shadowlet:

Originally posted by Taddy Mason:

none of those things have any impact on you in the DLC though. the only thing that helps you get stronger or find some new way to overcome whatever challenge you're facing in it is the scadutree fragments. whereas at least in the base game, you could find some new weapon, armor, or spell or other item to help you with whatever is challenging you.

Wrong. Weapon level was absolutely mandatory to have a fighting chance in zones outside of Limgrave., just like the DLC.

i don't know what you're talking about here. did you quote and respond to the wrong comment? who was talking about weapon levels or zones outside of Limgrave? i'm not wrong that finding a new weapons and maxing it out isn't going to help you get past anything challenging you in the DLC. only finding more scadutree fragments will. they are what determines your damage output and negation. pretty much everything in the DLC is balanced around the assumption you already have maxed out or nigh maxed out weapons AND a bunch of scadutree blessing levels on top of that. if anything isn't balanced around that assumption in the DLC, i'd like to see it.

[Playful Gargoyle]

Originally posted by Dr. Ademar de Barros:

What are you doing Fromsoftware? Mandatory collectibles, seriously? This is what you came up with to balance player power versus enemy power?

But I like collecting things :S

[Shadowlet]

Originally posted by Taddy Mason:

Originally posted by Shadowlet:

Wrong. Weapon level was absolutely mandatory to have a fighting chance in zones outside of Limgrave., just like the DLC.

i don't know what you're talking about here. did you quote and respond to the wrong comment? who was talking about weapon levels or zones outside of Limgrave? i'm not wrong that finding a new weapons and maxing it out isn't going to help you get past anything challenging you in the DLC. only finding more scadutree fragments will. they are what determines your damage output and negation. pretty much everything in the DLC is balanced around the assumption you already have maxed out or nigh maxed out weapons AND a bunch of scadutree blessing levels on top of that. if anything isn't balanced around that assumption in the DLC, i'd like to see it.

Scadutrees are the equivalent of needing Smithing/Somber stones in the base game to progress your character power. A new +0 weapon isn't helping you in the base game.

Idk how you need further clarification after what I initially wrote.

[VDRSK]

no one complained about the base game tears and seeds so they felt it was a good choice for the DLC, it also encourages exploration so i appreciate them

[C1REX]

Originally posted by VDRSK:

no one complained about the base game tears and seeds so they felt it was a good choice for the DLC, it also encourages exploration so i appreciate them

Summon upgrades also felt the same.

[CourtesyFlush09]

Originally posted by Taddy Mason:

Originally posted by CourtesyFlush09:

That same argument could be said for the base game and the summoning system, exploring the map to level up after getting your ass kicked by a boss, finding Golden Seeds, etc.

That's the closest thing you'll ever get to a difficulty slider in these games and from Miyazaki.

none of those things have any impact on you in the DLC though. the only thing that helps you get stronger or find some new way to overcome whatever challenge you're facing in it is the scadutree fragments. whereas at least in the base game, you could find some new weapon, armor, or spell or other item to help you with whatever is challenging you. if all that failed, you could try leveling up some more. that's all been stripped out in the DLC and the only method of character progression now is finding more scadutree fragments. we went from several options for how to tackle a situation to just one. it's stupid and a step backwards for the game.

Think of it this way: The DLC with you collecting zero or very little Scadurtree fragments is its equivalent of Hard mode. Collecting most or all fragments is the game's Easy mode. So the DLC effectively starts on Hard mode.

In a rather ingenious way, Miyazaki kinda flipped the difficulty paradigm on its head. It's kinda brilliant, honestly, because most other games approach difficulty the other way around lol.

[Chronic Complainer Reviews]

Originally posted by CL4MP:

Originally posted by Saru:

Skadu Tree Fragments are super easy to come by and you don't even need half of them to beat the DLC, tho they do help.

Git good, scrub.

Some people have a life and can't waste 1300h in Elden Ring to "git gud". Man this forum is toxic af.

Then you bought the wrong game. Sounds like a you problem.

Some people can't spend 10k hours in an MMO, but people still play them, doesn't mean you have too. I don't even have 200 hours in the game and I 100% the base game, and am about to finish the DLC. Maybe the problem is you?

[Taddy Mason]

Originally posted by Shadowlet:

Originally posted by Taddy Mason:

i don't know what you're talking about here. did you quote and respond to the wrong comment? who was talking about weapon levels or zones outside of Limgrave? i'm not wrong that finding a new weapons and maxing it out isn't going to help you get past anything challenging you in the DLC. only finding more scadutree fragments will. they are what determines your damage output and negation. pretty much everything in the DLC is balanced around the assumption you already have maxed out or nigh maxed out weapons AND a bunch of scadutree blessing levels on top of that. if anything isn't balanced around that assumption in the DLC, i'd like to see it.

Scadutrees are the equivalent of needing Smithing/Somber stones in the base game to progress your character power. A new +0 weapon isn't helping you in the base game.

Idk how you need further clarification after what I initially wrote.

what makes you think i believe a new +0 weapons helps you in the base game, though? i never tried making that point. why are you arguing with me like i did or am trying to make that point? you even quoted me saying "finding a new weapon and maxing it out isn't going to help you get past anything challenging you in the DLC" did you not read that part of what you quoted?

i also disagree they are the equivalent of needing smithing/somber stones in the base game to progress your character power because there are other ways to do so in the base game whereas there is only one in the DLC. you could level up, find some new spell or some other item(s) to help you get stronger. you can't do that in the DLC. you can only get stronger by finding more scadutree fragments.

[Shadowlet]

Originally posted by Taddy Mason:

Originally posted by Shadowlet:

Scadutrees are the equivalent of needing Smithing/Somber stones in the base game to progress your character power. A new +0 weapon isn't helping you in the base game.

Idk how you need further clarification after what I initially wrote.

what makes you think i believe a new +0 weapons helps you in the base game, though? i never tried making that point. why are you arguing with me like i did or am trying to make that point? you even quoted me saying "finding a new weapon and maxing it out isn't going to help you get past anything challenging you in the DLC" did you not read that part of what you quoted?

Originally posted by Taddy Mason:

whereas at least in the base game, you could find some new weapon, armor, or spell or other item to help you with whatever is challenging you. if all that failed, you could try leveling up some more.

Stone bells.... which you also need to find and the last ones are in endgame.

So the open world souls game wants you to explore the map instead of bolting it straight to the end without powering up? Colour me surprised. Surely that would help you in the base game if you bolted straight to Lyndell and after without weapon upgrades, right?

[Muse Snooze]

git gud

[Taddy Mason]

Originally posted by CourtesyFlush09:

Originally posted by Taddy Mason:

none of those things have any impact on you in the DLC though. the only thing that helps you get stronger or find some new way to overcome whatever challenge you're facing in it is the scadutree fragments. whereas at least in the base game, you could find some new weapon, armor, or spell or other item to help you with whatever is challenging you. if all that failed, you could try leveling up some more. that's all been stripped out in the DLC and the only method of character progression now is finding more scadutree fragments. we went from several options for how to tackle a situation to just one. it's stupid and a step backwards for the game.

Think of it this way: The DLC without you collecting any or very little Scadurtree fragments is the equivalent of Hard mode. Collecting most or all fragments is the game's Easy mode. So the DLC effectively starts on Hard mode.

In a rather ingenious way, Miyazaki kinda flipped the difficulty paradigm on its head. It's kinda brilliant, honestly, because most other games approach difficulty the other way around lol.

but i have considered it that way, disagreed with it, and then came here on the forums to explain why i don't think that's how it works in practice. that might have been his goal in theory, but it doesn't play out that way in practice. what happens is you simply don't have any means of getting stronger or finding some way to make the challenge in any part of the DLC easier EXCEPT finding more scadutree fragments. Miyazaki or whoever thought this system was a good idea forgot that this method of doing things strips out players ability to find different solutions to whatever challenges the devs put in any part of the game and replaced every solution with: find more scadutree fragments. no need to worry about what some boss is weak to or what strategy works best on it-just go out and hunt for more scadus. don't bother trying to level up or find a new weapon, armor set, spell, or other item to help you out. the only thing that is going to make whatever's challenging you remotely easier is finding more of those fragments.

call it hard to easy mode, call it whatever you want. in practice, it eliminates the build variety viability of the DLC and replaces it with a single collectible item you use to permanently upgrade yourself. if they wanted to make a hard to easy mode that was just effectively boosting your damage output and/or damage negation, then they could have and should have brought back armor upgrading because the damage negation boosts provided by scadutree fragments functions effectively the same way as armor upgrading did in previous games. do you think they should have brought back armor upgrading and if not, how is the scadutree fragment system different enough from that to be worth adding into the game? because it's lazier, easier, and more dumbed down than armor upgrading would be? what makes the scadu system good in ways that don't also apply to armor upgrading?

also, to keep in line with your theme of hard to easy mode-they could have made some dumb new upgrade material for armor pieces and ended up letting you buy those from some merchant as you progress thru the DLC. functions much the same way as scadus, you just get a lot more variety in how you decide to build your character because it's not a flat and permanent upgrade to your character's damage output and negation. so if anything, an even more adjustable amount of difficulty cause you could take your armor off or wear weak armor to give yourself a challenge but once you pop a scadu, that's permanent. you are now permanently doing more damage and taking less.

[Taddy Mason]

Originally posted by Shadowlet:

Originally posted by Taddy Mason:

what makes you think i believe a new +0 weapons helps you in the base game, though? i never tried making that point. why are you arguing with me like i did or am trying to make that point? you even quoted me saying "finding a new weapon and maxing it out isn't going to help you get past anything challenging you in the DLC" did you not read that part of what you quoted?

Originally posted by Taddy Mason:

whereas at least in the base game, you could find some new weapon, armor, or spell or other item to help you with whatever is challenging you. if all that failed, you could try leveling up some more.

Originally posted by Taddy Mason:

i also disagree they are the equivalent of needing smithing/somber stones in the base game to progress your character power because there are other ways to do so in the base game whereas there is only one in the DLC. you could level up, find some new spell or some other item(s) to help you get stronger. you can't do that in the DLC. you can only get stronger by finding more scadutree fragments.

Stone bells.... which you also need to find and the last ones are in endgame.

So the open world souls game wants you to explore the map instead of bolting it straight to the end without powering up? Colour me surprised. Surely that would help you in the base game if you bolted straight to Lyndell and after without weapon upgrades, right?

you're having a completely different conversation than i am. you are the only one talking about not upgrading weapons for some reason. i'm not trying to make that point. you just sound ridiculous by repeating that. holy moley, bro. learn to read.

[Swimfan]

Originally posted by Dr. Ademar de Barros:

What are you doing Fromsoftware? Mandatory collectibles, seriously? This is what you came up with to balance player power versus enemy power?

Uhm not saying it can't be annoying but seriously: If you don't like to explore, I really wonder why you're playing Elden Ring in the first place ... a game that basically works because of its exploration!?