Every 'Souls' enemy is in effective "god mode"

[Shoah Kahn]

• no stamina limit ✅
• no FP limit ✅
• nearly no projectile range limit ✅
• attacking through environments (with physical weapons) ✅
• ignoring hit-stun ✅
• mashing relentlessly, in a rote, A. I. devoid pattern; even after players' deaths ✅...

A while back, I read someone's summation of "Soul combat" difficulty: "They just make the enemies attack faster". This is the most succinct description I've seen of what 'Souls' games' combat devolves to, in order to imbue the series' notorious "artificial difficulty" -- nonsensically fast attacks, increasing in their incongruous speed as the series progresses. Couple that with the aforementioned bullet points -- to say nada of the converse restrictions placed upon players -- and you have some of the cheapest game gumbo on the market. Yet, we still play on... 😑

[Twisty]

Okay okay I see where you're coming from but also think of it this way
Big sword do big damage. Little enemy get unalive.
Big enemy take time to make unalive. Patience and skill are rewarded.

[potato]

yea so? game fun, i don't care if you don't like bosses

[causality]

Ninja cart wheeling skelebros from Demon's Souls.

[Shoah Kahn]

Originally posted by causality:

Ninja cart wheeling skelebros from Demon's Souls. :praisesun:

Demon's Soul has the "atmosphere™" as its compensatory factor.

Originally posted by potato:

yea so? game fun, i don't care if you don't like bosses

It wasn't a boss that finally goaded be to post this; rather, some junk tier ""elite" feral in Morne Castle 😑

[dark-breed]

Originally posted by Shoah Kahn:

• no stamina limit ✅
• no FP limit ✅
• nearly no projectile range limit ✅
• attacking through environments (with physical weapons) ✅
• ignoring hit-stun ✅
• mashing relentlessly, in a rote, A. I. devoid pattern; even after players' deaths ✅...

A while back, I read someone's summation of "Soul combat" difficulty: "They just make the enemies attack faster". This is the most succinct description I've seen of what 'Souls' games' combat devolves to, in order to imbue the series' notorious "artificial difficulty" -- nonsensically fast attacks, increasing in their incongruous speed as the series progresses. Couple that with the aforementioned bullet points -- to say nada of the converse restrictions placed upon players -- and you have some of the cheapest game gumbo on the market. Yet, we still play on... 😑

This game genre is supposed to be this way.

Fight, fail, learn how to avoid getting killed and how to land a blow

[Shoah Kahn]

^ What I've "learnt" from ER, is that its enemy script is worse than most predecessor FromSoft games.

[dark-breed]

now i understand why you are unable to play this game:

1. You don't own it
2. You are a cheater because your skill is not good enough to play the game

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1245620/discussions/0/4041481833161830598/

[Lynfinity]

Originally posted by Shoah Kahn:

It wasn't a boss that finally goaded be to post this; rather, some junk tier ""elite" feral in Morne Castle 😑

Here's a list of enemies that are lurking inside Castle Morne:

- Giant Rat
- Soldier
- Rotten Stray
- Misbegotten
- Skeletal Slime
- Spirit Jellyfish
- Godrick Soldier
- Lesser Mad Pumpkin Head

I'm guessing Rotten Stray is the enemy you're referring to, which is somewhat fair, but even then a simple shield solves the problem instantly.

What's this rant about again?

[Northstrider]

Well, duh. That's the whole point of challenges. They challenge you. They are made with certain traits to make you struggle. This isn't a duel simulator where a fair fight means every npc needs to be as handicapped as the player.

[Rastrelly]

Originally posted by Shoah Kahn:

• no stamina limit ✅
• no FP limit ✅
• nearly no projectile range limit ✅
• attacking through environments (with physical weapons) ✅
• ignoring hit-stun ✅
• mashing relentlessly, in a rote, A. I. devoid pattern; even after players' deaths ✅...

A while back, I read someone's summation of "Soul combat" difficulty: "They just make the enemies attack faster". This is the most succinct description I've seen of what 'Souls' games' combat devolves to, in order to imbue the series' notorious "artificial difficulty" -- nonsensically fast attacks, increasing in their incongruous speed as the series progresses. Couple that with the aforementioned bullet points -- to say nada of the converse restrictions placed upon players -- and you have some of the cheapest game gumbo on the market. Yet, we still play on... 😑

No, in actuality ER has the most advanced AI attack system of all the previous games. Enemies attack are taken from a pool which is decided by selecting an attack tree branch based on direction to player and distance to player, basically a hybrid system from Sekiro and DSIII. That is why they actyally are so relentless - they track you and select the best attack to connect with you at a current location. However, all the mobs have tools and methods to get them incapacitated or disabled, like flying misbegotten can be dropped on the ground at certain points with ranged attacks.

You also have a similarly powerful toolset extension in summons, guard counrers, ability to modify moveset at will with ashes of war, significanlty wider array of areas to power the character up, tools to use melee or casting effectively with unfit builds, ability to easily reset builds in neccessity arises. The game is clearly built around the player finding and using the best tools to deal with a specific threat. It is not perfect, of course, and some fights are just poorly constructed, but even those usually can be dealt with one way or another.

If you intentially limit your arsenal to "challlenge yourself" or something like that, though, it's not a game-problem, it is your specific choice to use a wrong tool at a wrong place.

[Senki]

so pretty much most games then?

I would really struggle to name one with bosses that get permastaggered, have stamina, need to recharge mana or that follow the same rules as players in general

mad cuz bad

[cybercybercybercyber4]

Originally posted by Shoah Kahn:

Yet, we still play on... 😑

i disagree with almost everything.
there are only 2 things that feel like artificial difficulty and you didnt even mention them:

-roll-punish,
but maybe they patched that out as lately ive not even once been roll-punished, despite not preventing it actively. If you dont know the enemy can roll punish, you might just die. It felt so unnecessary on my first playthrough.

-human bosses initiating a hyper armor AOW even out of hitstun that eats your next melee attack,
this can result in getting hit with no chance to avoid it, other than ...not going melee...

[Shoah Kahn]

Originally posted by Lynfinity:

even then a simple shield solves the problem instantly.
What's this rant about again?

I'm playing caster, and although I do carry a shield (imbued with "Vow of the Indominable" AoW), it's useless -- the moment you block or use your AoW, the enemies' rote mash scripts continue into infinity.... HOWEVER, if you play "Dark Rolls", not only do you roll through their attacks; BUT, their patterns also reset and/or stop -- providing respite.

This, above all, I find the most irksome: Irrespective of class I'm roleplaying as, having to efface myself by stooping to rolling in the filth, in order to have any realistic chance of not getting mashed. Yes -- this poor, input-reading "A. I." was exposed years ago (spam Glintstone Pebbles at a phantom, and watch it roll into forever)... It's just that it's far more annoying when it's the only way to realistically counter enemy aggression... The 'only' way that's not cheesing enemies / abusing their brain-blinkered blindness, that is.

IMO, this all ties into why different Elden Ring character classes need class-specific abilities which distinctly change their respective gameplay "meta". If a caster could teleport or levitate; a tank could just body attacks (no / low hit-stun); a lithe character (rouge / archer / ninja) could dash and jump from vertical level geometry, etc.; the game's gameplay would take on a whole new, and less rote feel. As it stands, every character build boils down DPS and stamina -- there is really no reason to go in any other direction if you want to even remotely optimise your build and/or feel like you're not being a masochist for the sake of principle.

Moving to an open-world format, there are legacy aspects of the 'Souls' games that simply no longer "work" as they once did and/or were intended to. One of the most obvious and acknowledged examples is the "summoned phantoms" (didn't they patch the games to allow a summons to stay on beyond boss fights?); the other being how the character builds function. ER's format would work a lot better if characters would, in gameplay terms, branch off in far more significant ways than they did in 'Souls' games. Builds that reach certain attribute thresholds should gain access to gameplay "meta-changing" mechanics which are unique to those upgrade paths; as distinct from the hodge-podge, diminishing returns levelling path (singular) that the series has been hallmarked by. The expansive ER format is simply not as given to the more "intimate" char. development of the 'Souls' games, and should adjust as such.

Originally posted by dark-breed:

You don't own it

One can have more than one Steam account.

You are a cheater because your skill is not good enough to play the game

"Cheating" is subjective. People "cheat" tax; but, a person earning under $100,000 doing it, is not the same as when billionaires do it. I "cheat" in order to tailor the game to my tastes -- as, I'd presume, anyone with common sense would. In fact, it's kind of what building one's character in a manner they like is. Haven't many default builds / weapons / play styles in FromSoft games been arbitrarily labelled "cheating"? Isn't "over-levelling" considered "cheating"?... Despite ER allowing players to effectively max level from a single SoG reset 🤔

That, and I'd wager if you played the way I play, you'd find it anything but(making the game "easier" being the lay interpretation of "cheating")[/i], than playing in a default manner -- example: caster > no Estus (only FP pots, mostly for boss fights) > all heals come from magic or tick heal pools or perks > all consumables in-inventory use only (no quick-slots = char. vulnerable) > no melee weapons beyond daggers / logical weapons (no "spry ninja with greatsword" spaz builds) > no Spirit Ashes > no summons (outside of co-op)... Give it a try; see how much it feels like "cheating" when you're getting one/two-shotted by grunts and cannot swill the 12-step's crutch every 10 seconds, to reset you HP bar 👌😏

[toughnails]

I won't engage with your whole rant, but I just want to say that in Nioh games the enemies do have a visible stamina bar and depleting it will stagger them letting you execute a riposte (or in the case of demons will reduce their poise to 0, letting you wail on them relentlessly for a while). In fact, observing and managing the enemies' stamina is a huge part of Nioh's combat. Makes me wish From Software games had something like that. Only Sekiro comes somewhat close with its posture bar, but it's not really a Souls game.

[Sephylon]

Originally posted by Shoah Kahn:

Originally posted by Lynfinity:

even then a simple shield solves the problem instantly.
What's this rant about again?

I'm playing caster, and although I do carry a shield (imbued with "Vow of the Indominable" AoW), it's useless -- the moment you block or use your AoW, the enemies' rote mash scripts continue into infinity....

Try barricade shield or a great shield then

HOWEVER, if you play "Dark Rolls", not only do you roll through their attacks; BUT, their patterns also reset and/or stop -- providing respite.

Same thing happens when their attacks bounce off a shield

This, above all, I find the most irksome: Irrespective of class I'm roleplaying as, having to efface myself by stooping to rolling in the filth, in order to have any realistic chance of not getting mashed.

Skill issue, learn spacing and positioning

Yes -- this poor, input-reading "A. I." was exposed years ago (spam Glintstone Pebbles at a phantom, and watch it roll into forever)... It's just that it's far more annoying when it's the only way to realistically counter enemy aggression... The 'only' way that's not cheesing enemies / abusing their brain-blinkered blindness, that is.

No clue what you're on about

IMO, this all ties into why different Elden Ring character classes need class-specific abilities which distinctly change their respective gameplay "meta". If a caster could teleport or levitate; a tank could just body attacks (no / low hit-stun); a lithe character (rouge / archer / ninja) could dash and jump from vertical level geometry, etc.; the game's gameplay would take on a whole new, and less rote feel. As it stands, every character build boils down DPS and stamina -- there is really no reason to go in any other direction if you want to even remotely optimise your build and/or feel like you're not being a masochist for the sake of principle.

Then play games that have those, or use a mod that gives them. Elden ring doesn't need those, you just want them.

Moving to an open-world format, there are legacy aspects of the 'Souls' games that simply no longer "work" as they once did and/or were intended to. One of the most obvious and acknowledged examples is the "summoned phantoms" (didn't they patch the games to allow a summons to stay on beyond boss fights?); the other being how the character builds function. ER's format would work a lot better if characters would, in gameplay terms, branch off in far more significant ways than they did in 'Souls' games. Builds that reach certain attribute thresholds should gain access to gameplay "meta-changing" mechanics which are unique to those upgrade paths; as distinct from the hodge-podge, diminishing returns levelling path (singular) that the series has been hallmarked by. The expansive ER format is simply not as given to the more "intimate" char. development of the 'Souls' games, and should adjust as such.

Sounds like you want to play a different game